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Sauron
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Not for you, chemicalpower.
You are attempting to manufacture Acetic Anhydride to supply to criminals in your country (Pakistan) to process opium into heroin (or morphine from
opium into heroin). You said as much yourself in a PM to me.
As this is not amateur science, I will not help you with your illegal activity.
[Edited on 31-8-2007 by Sauron]
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chemicalpowerII
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Dear Sir,
I am not trying to help any criminals or supplying anything. i dont think making cellulose acetate is a crime. meanwhile if you feel like not sharing
your findings its ok but you should not put things up on the main forum that you are not clear about and maybe they can create a lot of problems for
others.
take care
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Sauron
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Liar.
Cellulose acetate was the Iranian's story. You TOLD me what you are up to, and I told you to get the hell away from me. You failed to do so. Take the
consequences.
The Iranian (hector) at least made up a cover story, even though having to make cellulose acetate to manufacture glue was never a really plausible
notion. It was sufficient to give him the benefit of the doubt. For a while anyway.
Your story (mostly expressed in PMs) was that you are not a chemist but in debt to a loan shark and the shark will let you pay him off in Ac2O, if you
can make a lot of it fast.
You never in all those months said one word about cellulose acetate.
Ac2O is tightly controlled in your country due to the burgeoning south Asian heroin traffic, which NATO forces are fighting in Afghanistan next door
to you trying to suppress.
If you WERE (arguendo) making cellulose acetate you could just buy acetic anhydride or acetyl chloride, or that matter, cellulose acetate, itself a
cheap commodity.
Finally you had the audacity to mention heoin in a PM to me, in context of a color test you subjected your product to, you said the heoin turned
black.
GET LOST!
I am posting this so you cannot misrepresent yourself to others as you did to me, wasting my time.
[Edited on 1-9-2007 by Sauron]
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hector2000
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Mr sauron i promise to god that i didnt make heroin
i forget our glue and anhydrid (we were bankrupt)
now i have small game net in tehran
thanks god every thing is ok
God keep you
bye
[Edited on 2-9-2007 by hector2000]
Chemistry=Chem+ is+ Try
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Sauron
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Nice to hear from you, @hector.
No one said you made heroin.
Just that the cellulose acetate thing did not appear to make economic sense.
Best wishes with your new business.
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Fashist
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
Put that question aside for the moment.
Here are two US patents from 1930s.
First one says vinyl acetate + acetic acid over conc sulfuric acid as catalyst, gives acetaldehyde and acetic anhydride. Claims 77% conversion and 95%
recovery of the anhydride formed. No PdCl2 required.
Other catalysts suggested include phosphoric acid, sulfonic acids like p-toluenesulfonic acid (the example they give is benzenesulfonic acid), etc. as
I know you have a problem with sulfuric acid.
This would be very cheap and easy. No acetyl chloride needed. No PdCl2 needed. You should try this. No sodium acetate needed. So no more 3 day drying
oven.
Don't thank me, thank @S.C.Wack who pointed these out in another thread.
[Edited on 25-3-2007 by Sauron] |
Hmm
Interesting Method
No Result?
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Sauron
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Well, I now have a jug of VA monomer (syabilized) sitting under my desk but, my "client" at that time, has evaporated and says he is out of the
acetate glue business in Iran. So I have not yet followed up on this. The fellow in Pakistan who tried it got nowhere but, events demonstrated that
his skills were meager. So, inconclusive.
Hardly matters since there are other and more reliable proven methods. No need to chase an acient patent is there?
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Fleaker
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I'd be interested in hearing the results. The acetone pyrolysis method I have tried, and it could probably make several liters per day, however it is
dangerous. To me, ketene+700C tube furnace+any air leak == explosion.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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Eclectic
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Well yes, but if you can't manage preventing an air leak in your apparatus, you have no business doing this kind of organic chemistry and working with
flammable solvents anyway. 
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Sauron
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My argument against this is ketene's toxicity. Want to deal with something phosgene-like at elevated temps? Not me.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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jimmyboy
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I have no clue why you don't just synth benzoyl chloride - chlorinate some benzaldehyde.. done.. and it won't kill you if you get a noseful
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Fleaker
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eclectic
Well yes, but if you can't manage preventing an air leak in your apparatus, you have no business doing this kind of organic chemistry and working with
flammable solvents anyway. |
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=7447
According to NERV, I apparently can't do this. I didn't tighten the flanges down properly when we made the reaction tube. Definitely was a fire coming
out of the acetone input end of the tube! 
Personally, I think it is much more viable a method than the ketene lamp.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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Eclectic
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You could start with acetylene, acetic acid, and H2SO4/Hg catalyst.
It would be essentially the same process, and you wouldn't need to get vinyl acetate. 
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MagicJigPipe
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Compassion Please!
Oh c'mon, help him repay his loan shark. If these loan sharks are in any way like the ones in the movies (ha!) then his life is at stake. Everyone
makes mistakes.
**Response to Sauron's next post (so I don't keep adding non infomative posts)**
I was only half serious. Jokingly serious.
[Edited on 26-11-2007 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Sauron
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That guy is long gone, his story reeked, he was clueless, and if he was telling the truth, the shark has probably boiled him in pig fat by now.
In any case, moot.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Fashist
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eclectic
You could start with acetylene, acetic acid, and H2SO4/Hg catalyst.
It would be essentially the same process, and you wouldn't need to get vinyl acetate. |
Plz.Explain more.
Thx
[Edited on 27-11-2007 by Fashist]
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WizardX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Fashist
| Quote: | Originally posted by Eclectic
You could start with acetylene, acetic acid, and H2SO4/Hg catalyst.
It would be essentially the same process, and you wouldn't need to get vinyl acetate. |
Plz.Explain more.
Thx
Mr sauron What is Glue problem? |
3. Hydration of Alkynes and Tautomerism http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtualText/addyne1.htm#add3
Albert Einstein - \"Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.\"
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MagicJigPipe
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Sorry, I hope I didn't raise him from the dead Sauron.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Sauron
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No, he's all right. He's Iranian. The one I was referring to was a Paki.
I'm just not very interested in this vinyl acetate process any more. There are tried and true ways to make acetyl chloride. Anyway Hector buys his
acetyl chloride in 200 L drums from Merck for $6 a liter, and that is a lot cheaper than I can make it from TCT or benzoyl chloride.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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MagicJigPipe
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Damn, I have a feeling THAT, of all things, would raise a red flag.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Sauron
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Why?
The fellow explained why he was in need of Ac2) in a qty of 50 L/day - acetylation of cellulose. He was reacting acetyl chloride with sodium acetate.
He was having technical problems and seeking a cheaper less troublesome method to produce 50 L acetic anhydride a day. Now, that is how this thread
got started.
I reckon, if he was up to no good, he would not be pinching pennies.
Ac2O cannot be purchased legally in his country. For reasons that ought to be obvious.
In THIS country, neither Ac2O nor acetyl chloride can be purchased without special permits, hard to obtain. So I am rather jealous of $6 a liter AcCl.
(Merck, for synthesis.)
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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MagicJigPipe
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Well, I suppose I meant... People lie and govts are paranoid. Rightly so in certain areas.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Eclectic
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And paranoid governments lie...
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Sauron
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I do not believe that Hector2000 aka fashist is here as a representative of his government, any more than MJP is here as a representative of the US
government.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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Fashist
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Unfortunately Merck dont sale any chemical to iran(germany cut it trade with iran)
We are alone without any friend.
Any way the game net here has no gain i should close that.
I now nobody trust my idea for making celloluse acetate.but i dont lie.(god know)
I see the rise of making ketene system in the other topic.
Very very nice and intersting.
But i think i cant buy tube heater here.
I want to buy tube heater from this site:
http://www.lentonfurnaces.com/content.asp?id=3&doc=16
What is your idea?is good system?
Mr sauron why you dont working on va method(perhaps va method has problem )
I am Amorous the new ketene system(http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=7447)
What is your idea
Excuse me for my bad english
thx
[Edited on 28-11-2007 by Fashist]
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