| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
bb911gt4
Harmless
Posts: 17
Registered: 25-12-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Nitromethane Sensitizers
Hey guys,
I'm looking for ways to sensitize nitromethane. I'm aware of the amines and amine salts, but those are hazardous and hard to get ahold of. I'm also
aware of aluminum powder and resin balloons.
Is there anything else I should look into. Citing references is appreciated.
Thanks
|
|
|
NeonPulse
Hazard to Others
Posts: 417
Registered: 29-6-2013
Location: The other end of the internet.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Isolated from Reality! For Real this time....
|
|
Nitric acid has proved useful here a 70%nm 30%HNO3 mix is good, Giving a mixture about as sensitive as NG. there actually are a couple of other
threads on this topic already,just search the site and you will likely come up with the answers you want. Any answers given here would just be going
over what is detailed in the other threads. There's a lot of sensitisers out there some better than others.
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you're really desperate, H2SO4 sensitizes NM or ANNM.
|
|
|
Dany
Hazard to Others
Posts: 482
Registered: 3-8-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
ammonia is a good sensitizer for NM. the addition of 5-6% ammonia to NM transform NM to a cap sensitive explosive. a good review on nitrometane
(application in shaped charge, discussion of sensitizers) can be foud here:
http://www.wydawnictwa.ipo.waw.pl/cejem/vol-9-1-2012/Shekhar...
Dany.
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Speaking of witch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU3TIpoMQN4
So you can dissolve dry ammonia in NM? I've also heard of some dangerous addition of alkali basis to NM. If they can sensitize NM with ammonia, can I
do it hydrazine hydrate? 
|
|
|
gnitseretni
Hazard to Others
Posts: 282
Registered: 5-1-2007
Location: Colombia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks for that PDF Dany!
|
|
|
NeonPulse
Hazard to Others
Posts: 417
Registered: 29-6-2013
Location: The other end of the internet.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Isolated from Reality! For Real this time....
|
|
Or there's one of mine that worked. In YouTube search for nitromethane/HNO3 shaped charge 115mls, that was a good application of NM in a shaped charge
setup. And went well into the sledgehammer head that was the target. More sc videos are coming soon.
|
|
|
bb911gt4
Harmless
Posts: 17
Registered: 25-12-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks guys, does anyone know how stable the ammonia/nitromethane mixture is? Does it break down after a certain period of time?
|
|
|
dangerous amateur
Hazard to Others
Posts: 148
Registered: 8-7-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The fastest Velocity in this decument mentions 5300m/s.
Not bad, but I rather save mine for ANNM.
I wonder if the advantage of the more even filling of the SC is worth the worse performance in general.
I wonder what "polyox" is supposed to be, Polyethylene glycole?
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1387
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
|
|
NM
Tested composition. Simple composition. No ammonium nitrate. Only Glass microballoons + aluminum (flakes leaves) + nitromethane + nitrocellulose:
nitromethane .......... 67
Al ............................... 20............ (10-25)
NC2 (12,4N) .............10..............(6 -12).......(or 13,1%N and more)
microballoons.............3..............(1 - 4)
No.8 cap sensitive. The composition works in a wide range of ratios.
LL
|
|
|
franklyn
International Hazard
Posts: 3026
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
This makes # 2500 of my posts
Strong bases that can induce Nitronate tautomerism such as organic Amines and anhydrous Alkali , because hydrated forms promote dissociation. Anything
that will produce an ionic solution. Alkali and Alkaline hydrides and acetylides. Typically ~ 5 % ( 1 part in twenty ) of the whole charge as with PLX
is sufficient. Soluble inorganic oxidizers , Sodium Nitrite should work well ( I think ). 6.1 parts by weight CH3NO2 to 6.9 parts NaNO2 is
stoichiometric.
2 CH3NO2 + 2 NaNO2 => Na2O + 2 CO2 + 3 H2O + 2 N2
.
[Edited on 28-9-2014 by franklyn]
|
|
|
specialactivitieSK
Hazard to Self
Posts: 94
Registered: 21-10-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Nitromethane detonator with 100 mg of Lead azide :
8,5 g Nitromethane
1,5 g hydrazine
or
1,0 g Hydrazine with 0,5 g Diethylenetriamine
____________________________________
Question :
How detonation velocity may have a mixture of composition :
Nitromethane with Picric acid and Morpholine as a sensitiser
( 51/44/6 )
Picric acid is highly soluble ( 87,5 % ) by weight at room temperature, in nitromethane.
Patent number : 5,140,908
Liquid Explosive With Initiator
http://www.google.com/patents/US5140908
[Edited on 21-10-2014 by specialactivitieSK]
[Edited on 21-10-2014 by specialactivitieSK]
|
|
|
forgotpassword
Harmless
Posts: 47
Registered: 12-8-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Here's a video in which he mixes Nitric Acid and Nitromethane.
http://vimeo.com/98873406
|
|
|
specialactivitieSK
Hazard to Self
Posts: 94
Registered: 21-10-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
100ml PLX
Main Charge: 100ml PLX Nitromethane/Diethylenetriamine
Detonator: 0.20g Lead Azide / 2.5g Smokeless Gunpowder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br-f1Ls9hZ0&list=UUJmTt3c...
[Edited on 21-10-2014 by specialactivitieSK]
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
If you read correctly the text inside the video, it is actually nitrobenzene and Red Fuming Nitric Acid (RFNA) (28/72 mix by weight a Sprengel's
explosive called Hellhoffite).
There are many such mixes: All are relatively unstable and non storage advisable
NM/HNO3
Acetonitrile/HNO3
benzene/HNO3
Nitrobenzene/HNO3
MNT or DNT/HNO3
...
Sensitizers for NM...
Hydrazine
hydroxylamine
Ethylene diamine
Nitroglycerine
N2O4
concentrated H2O2
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
forgotpassword
Harmless
Posts: 47
Registered: 12-8-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sorry man, just glanced over the text, at least I provided something remotely relevant.
You forgot liquid O2, I heard that sensitizes Nitrobenzene.
|
|
|
Melmoth
Harmless
Posts: 28
Registered: 15-7-2002
Location: The Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Has anyone got acces to the paper "Non-Solid Explosives for Shaped Charges. Part II" as mentioned in the document Dany posted?
"This species has amused itself to death"
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Let's collect and merge a few redundant threads on NM sensitizers to reduce clutter-
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
Bert
|
Threads Merged
31-10-2014 at 07:27 |
Bert
|
Threads Merged
31-10-2014 at 07:40 |
specialactivitieSK
Hazard to Self
Posts: 94
Registered: 21-10-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Triethylamine is applicable.
______
Triethylamine is prepared by the alkylation of ammonia with ethanol: NH3 + 3 C2H5OH → N(C2H5)3 + 3 H2O
______
Ethylamine is produced on a large scale by two processes. Most commonly ethanol and ammonia are combined in the presence of an oxide catalyst:
In this reaction, ethylamine is coproduced together with diethylamine and triethylamine.
CH3CH2OH + NH3 → CH3CH2NH2 + H2O
[Edited on 2-11-2014 by specialactivitieSK]
|
|
|
kratomiter
Hazard to Others
Posts: 106
Registered: 30-9-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  |
Strong bases that can induce Nitronate tautomerism such as organic Amines and anhydrous Alkali , because hydrated forms promote dissociation. Anything
that will produce an ionic solution. Alkali and Alkaline hydrides and acetylides. Typically ~ 5 % ( 1 part in twenty ) of the whole charge as with PLX
is sufficient. Soluble inorganic oxidizers , Sodium Nitrite should work well ( I think ). 6.1 parts by weight CH3NO2 to 6.9 parts NaNO2 is
stoichiometric.
2 CH3NO2 + 2 NaNO2 => Na2O + 2 CO2 + 3 H2O + 2 N2
.
[Edited on 28-9-2014 by franklyn] |
I tried to detonate a 50/50 mix of NM and sodium nitrite. Of course, sodium nitrite is almost no soluble in NM and remains as a powder al the bottom.
It still acts as a base and little amounts results in color change of NM.
Detonation was performed with 50 mg SADS + 50 mg MHN and judging the results it was only a partial detonation (there was some black smoke). Also
dealing with nitrous acid is not the best think to do. Also had no success with 2% hexamine.
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter | | Quote: Originally posted by franklyn |
Strong bases that can induce Nitronate tautomerism such as organic Amines and anhydrous Alkali , because hydrated forms promote dissociation. Anything
that will produce an ionic solution. Alkali and Alkaline hydrides and acetylides. Typically ~ 5 % ( 1 part in twenty ) of the whole charge as with PLX
is sufficient. Soluble inorganic oxidizers , Sodium Nitrite should work well ( I think ). 6.1 parts by weight CH3NO2 to 6.9 parts NaNO2 is
stoichiometric.
2 CH3NO2 + 2 NaNO2 => Na2O + 2 CO2 + 3 H2O + 2 N2
.
[Edited on 28-9-2014 by franklyn] |
I tried to detonate a 50/50 mix of NM and sodium nitrite. Of course, sodium nitrite is almost no soluble in NM and remains as a powder al the bottom.
It still acts as a base and little amounts results in color change of NM.
Detonation was performed with 50 mg SADS + 50 mg MHN and judging the results it was only a partial detonation (there was some black smoke). Also
dealing with nitrous acid is not the best think to do. Also had no success with 2% hexamine. |
The NaNO2 will only set traces amounts of HNO2 free from the natural acidity of CH3-NO2 in anhydrous system...even if water is present the quantity
will be very low...
The following reactions will catch it as it forms:
NaNO2 --water--> Na(+) + NO2(-)
CH3-NO2 <==--> CH2=N(O)-OH --water--> CH2=N(O)-O(-) + H(+)
H(+) + NO2(-) <----> HO-N=O <----> H2O + N2O3
HO-N=O <----> HO(-) + NO(+)
CH2=N(O)-O (-) + NO(+) <--==> CH2(-NO)-NO2
HO(-) + H(+) <----> H2O
CH3-NO2 or NM burns smokeless nitrite eventually with NxOy fumes... no black smoke...
==> The smoke comes from the container, the fuse or the detonator/detonating mix.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
kratomiter
Hazard to Others
Posts: 106
Registered: 30-9-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thank you for your answer. Yes, the container was made from plastic, so it makes sense. I get a little dissapointed, hoped it could sensitize NM like
potassium chlorate.
By the way, the compound CH2(-NO)-NO2 is N-methyl-N-nitrohydroxylamine? Can it be isolated pure or as a salt?
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
Nitrosonitromethane is unstable just like dinitromethane (a related molecule (only one O atom of difference on one of its N atom); unstability is
caused by the EWG effect (electron withdrawing group) what favorises the conversion/transposition of the nitro group into a nitrito one and this last
one is very prone to hydrolysis or decomposition...
EWG-C-NO2 <----> EWG-C-O-N=O
EWG-C-O-N=O <----> EWG-C-O(-) + NO(+)
EWG-C-O-N=O <----> EWG-C(-) + NO2(+)
Edit note:
Some substituants of the C atoms have been left aside for convenience purpose; those can be C or H atoms.
Nitrosonitromethane is in equilibrium with an oximic form or a nitronic form...
O=N-CH=N(O)-OH (nitronic)<----> O=N-CH2-NO2 <----> HO-N=CH-NO2 (oximic)
Theorically...the molecule could be a diacid and should be related to nitrocyanide oxyde (O=N#C-NO2) and to its dimer dinitrofuroxane...
HO-N=CH-NO2 <--> HO-N=C=N(O)-OH <--> (-)O-N=C=N(O)-O(-) + 2H(+)
The salt formation is indeed a way to stabilize a little the molecule...
Such salts are sensitive to friction/heat/shock...
During the formation from bases usually a lot of side reactions happens including condensation, multimerization, additions, eliminations,
transposition, rearrangements... also disporportionations (intramolecular or extramolecular oxydoredox reactions)
==> thus a very complex chemistry; hence difficulty to get pure products.
[Edited on 10-10-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
DrManhattan
Harmless
Posts: 32
Registered: 24-1-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
What are some good non energetic gelling compounds for nitromethane? Reading the wikipedia page on PLX i came across this quote.
"Trzciński reports that 200 grams of a mixture of NM with PMMA as gelling agent and AlMg (45:55, mean particle size = 63 microns) as fuel, in a ratio
of 67.2/2.8/30 by mass, has a peak overpressure of 120 kPa 2 m from the (open air) blast site, a 1.65 TNT equivalency in peak pressure, and a 1.62
equivalency in shockwave impulse."
PMMA referring to Poly(methyl methacrylate) aka acrylic was used in the above mixture. I have tried to use acrylic powder in the past but all i got
was a blob of gel suspended in the liquid nitromethane.
|
|
|
Rocinante
Hazard to Others
Posts: 121
Registered: 13-11-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/prep.200900041/ab...
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
