Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Sweden hosts project to stop homemade bombs

Mabus - 13-2-2015 at 07:45

http://www.thelocal.se/20150212/sweden-hosts-project-to-stop...

Quote:

Swedish researchers have been sharing details of a woodland project designed to help European countries outwit future terrorists plotting attacks with homemade bombs.

In a forest in Södertorn, south of Stockholm, a seven-acre facility belonging to the Swedish Defence Agency is working on a project designed to prevent people from being able to make bombs from household products sold around Europe.

The idea is to identify how to replace substances that can be used to make explosives, with other ingredients that are not potentially dangerous and still allow products to fulfil the purpose they were invented for, for example cleaning or bleaching.

The project, which is funded by the EU, is looking at items including camping stoves, detergents and disinfectants.

"It's about how we can prevent anyone from making bombs from things that can be bought in stores," Henric Östmark, research director at the Swedish Defence Research Agency told the Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter. But he refused to go into too much detail to ensure that knowledge being gathered by the research team did not end up in the wrong hands.

The EU has already made it illegal to own certain substances that can be used to make bombs and it is hoped that the Swedish project will lead to further legislation once replacable bomb-making ingredients within other household products have been identified.

Swedish researchers are also developing new methods to help detect homemade bombs. This includes sensors that can be mounted on the roofs of police cars or in scanning areas at airports or even sewers, where suspicious particles from bombs could spread. It is believed that this kind of technology could have been used to detect the explosives used in the London bombings in 2005.

"We are now in discussions with the European Commission to develop a prototype [of a sensor] that could be tested when the police anywhere in Europe receive an indication that something like this going on," Östmark told The Local.

Details of the project emerged as terrorism was a key topic on the agenda for European leaders meeting for their latest in summit in Brussels on Thursday, in the wake of the terror attacks in Paris last month.

In 2011, Norway was rocked by a bombing attack in Oslo carried out by Anders Behring Breivik, who went on to shoot dozens of young people who were at a youth conference on a nearby island. Sweden has also experienced homegrown terrorism in recent years, with a suicide bombing in central Stockholm in 2010.

Asked about the possibility of future terror attacks in the Nordic nation last month, Sweden's Interior Minister Anders Ygeman told The Local: "We must not let the dark forces win. I can understand why people are concerned, but we are doing everything we can to prevent actions like these. We should not be afraid and we should not be silenced."


I wonder if they'll ban table salt.

Tdep - 13-2-2015 at 08:21

Interesting, wonder exactly what they're working on? Sounds like they possibly could be looking at bleach, but I'd find it hard to believe that they'd get that replaced with another chemical that's comparatively effective and not a strong oxidiser that could be 'misused' in some way.

Yes, I guess it's bad, but whenever an article mentions the 2005 bombings you have to remember that they're talking about organic peroxides, and a crackdown on organic peroxides is hardly the end of the world for home chemists. I think if you look at a chemical like HMTD's use in terrorism over the years vs its use in home chemistry, I feel it's a pretty good target to police.

That said, I've heard hydrogen peroxide is becoming virtually impossible to find in countries like Sweden, and you'd think that was enough of a significant crackdown.

Mabus - 13-2-2015 at 08:43

Yeah, there's little info on what they're testing.
Though I'm curious if they're experimenting on small scale or large scale.

The Volatile Chemist - 13-2-2015 at 09:18

Probably small scale, then they'll force it on industry :)
Glad I live in the US.... yeah....

Loptr - 13-2-2015 at 09:24

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Probably small scale, then they'll force it on industry :)
Glad I live in the US.... yeah....


Industry typically get's to do what they want as long as they stay within certain guidelines. Other than reporting, I don't see how this or any similar method, could be forced onto industry.

Now, I have seen instances where you have to jump through hoops to get something, with it still being "available", just not worth the paperwork or reporting. It's typically referred to as a behavior-shaping constraint. :)

[Edited on 13-2-2015 by Loptr]

[Edited on 13-2-2015 by Loptr]

Zombie - 13-2-2015 at 17:45

If they succeed, the logical next step would be for terrorists to buy "Hornet and Wasp" spray cans by the case.

Rather than blowing things up, they can now run around "macing" people from 30 feet away.

The world has spiraled into a madness that it may not recover from.

macckone - 13-2-2015 at 19:07

Bleach, hydrogen peroxide in any form, salt and god forbid someone get a hold of sugar or lard. Oh and air and electricity will need to be banned too.

Zombie - 13-2-2015 at 19:38

Don't give them any tips...

I need my air.

Hawkguy - 13-2-2015 at 20:13

My home lab could always use an overhaul and a bit of downsize...

The Volatile Chemist - 14-2-2015 at 12:45

Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  
If they succeed, the logical next step would be for terrorists to buy "Hornet and Wasp" spray cans by the case.

Rather than blowing things up, they can now run around "macing" people from 30 feet away.

The world has spiraled into a madness that it may not recover from.

Or just drop cases of the stuff on cities from the sky...

Zombie - 14-2-2015 at 14:41

It would have to be from Gliders cause fuel will be banned.

Trebuchet's...

mangonneau.jpg - 46kB

morganbw - 15-2-2015 at 04:47

Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  
It would have to be from Gliders cause fuel will be banned.

Trebuchet's...


Dang, I wish I had your humor. You are blessed.

Magpie - 15-2-2015 at 10:46

For humor on society's determination to ban chemicals, this one is hard to beat, IMO :D:

"Another material worth banning: Bones. Everyone who reads up on phosphorus production will find out that animal bones once were the principal raw material for it.
No more chicken wings at burger king, only boneless steaks and chicken filet, no whole turkey, etc...
Possession of a dead animal containing bones is only legal for registered and licensed butchers, every other person will be charged with unlawful possession of a drug precursor. "

- garage chemist

Chemosynthesis - 16-2-2015 at 00:21

I can't help but wonder if perhaps they are jumping the gun a bit when I am still reading news stories where explosives (including grenades and rockets) and automatic weapons were smuggled into countries such France, Belgium, and Denmark for terrorism, yet haven't come across any stories of note whereby homemade explosives have played a serious role.

I just wonder if the priorities aren't a little reversed when focusing on future issues seems such a big deal when current issues don't appear to be being effectively dealt with.

Zombie - 16-2-2015 at 00:31

Quote: Originally posted by morganbw  
Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  
It would have to be from Gliders cause fuel will be banned.

Trebuchet's...


Dang, I wish I had your humor. You are blessed.



Not what my teachers said, but I'l take what I can get. :D:D:D:D

Zombie - 16-2-2015 at 00:42

Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis  
I can't help but wonder if perhaps they are jumping the gun a bit when I am still reading news stories where explosives (including grenades and rockets) and automatic weapons were smuggled into countries such France, Belgium, and Denmark for terrorism, yet haven't come across any stories of note whereby homemade explosives have played a serious role.

I just wonder if the priorities aren't a little reversed when focusing on future issues seems such a big deal when current issues don't appear to be being effectively dealt with.



It may have a lot to do with the Arms Trade Treaty that was just ratified, and put into effect Dec. 24, 2014.

In essence it took All weapons out of privatized hands, and gave full control, and responsibility into the Fed's. hands.

This may be the jump start of citizen disarmament on a global scale.
You should see me on the Conspiracy forums. I kick some Rothschild ass, I do.

http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/

PDF of the treaty...
https://unoda-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...

It's some bad news for us. The US is already in direct violation of the treaty. :mad:
Read thru, and you'll see.

turd - 16-2-2015 at 01:16

Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis  
I can't help but wonder if perhaps they are jumping the gun a bit when I am still reading news stories where explosives (including grenades and rockets) and automatic weapons were smuggled into countries such France, Belgium, and Denmark for terrorism, yet haven't come across any stories of note whereby homemade explosives have played a serious role.

Seriously? What about the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings.
In any case, we all know this kind of legislation is not about preventing professional terrorist attacks. It's about giving the populace the feeling that politicians are doing something. And let's be realistic: the general populace approves kids playing with potentially dangerous chemicals just as much as they approve someone cooking up a batch of speed.

Chemosynthesis - 16-2-2015 at 01:37

The arms control part is dubious as most UN legislature contains verbiage such as "Reaffirming the sovereign right of any State to regulate and control conventional arms exclusively within its territory, pursuant to its own legal or constitutional system"

However, one of the only constitutionally free nations with regard to that kind of thing, at least ostensibly, is the United States. You could argue Mexico too, in name only.

Quote: Originally posted by turd  

Seriously? What about the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings.
Ten years ago, not technically on the continent of Europe. Kind of unusual to enact laws on the ten year memorium, at least in my mind. The most recent continental bombing (excluding Russia) that I recall off the top of my head was in Madrid in 2004, and wasn't homemade, but diverted explosives. I also wonder how much of it is fueled by the desire to have more centralized control, either for power's sake or the ability to request larger budgets due to perceived responsibilities' expansion.

[Edited on 16-2-2015 by Chemosynthesis]

Zombie - 16-2-2015 at 02:48

Quote Chemo:

"fueled by the desire to have more centralized control"

Exactly!

turd - 16-2-2015 at 03:15

Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis  
Ten years ago, not technically on the continent of Europe. Kind of unusual to enact laws on the ten year memorium, at least in my mind. The most recent continental bombing (excluding Russia) that I recall off the top of my head was in Madrid in 2004, and wasn't homemade, but diverted explosives. I also wonder how much of it is fueled by the desire to have more centralized control, either for power's sake or the ability to request larger budgets due to perceived responsibilities' expansion.

You make no sense. What has being "technically on the continent of Europe" to do with anything?
And your memory might need some training: ANFO bomb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

Things are really quite simple:
1) Europe has a long tradition of home-made bombs, be it perchlorates, ammonium nitrate, nitroglycerine or peroxides.
2) There is a perceived increase of terrorism and therefore a demand for politics to act.
3) The populace has zero problems with restricting access to "dangerous" chemicals to professionals.

Combine these three points and you will get new restrictions. It's not "a desire for centralized control" (paranoia much?), it's the population who wants this. It's called democracy.

Zombie - 16-2-2015 at 03:40

I call it Vanilla Rain.

Where is the practical limit? You could blow the crap out of a city street with a garbage can full of Cola, and Mento's.

People that want to cause chaos will ALWAYS find a way to do it. Truck tires over filled, and delivered from a refrig. truck, on a hot sidewalk can kill dozens of people.

In essence I am saying this is much more. Take consumer products, and make them all bland... whatever. I don't really care one way or the other.

The post was right here on this site, Take guns away from law abiding citizens, and we are all sitting ducks.

Take draino away form home owners, and I see a lot of "crap" in our future.

I had to edit... If they really want to make an impact??? Blow the shit out of all the terrorist nations. ALL of them.
That will make a statement.

Now I hope you understand I am exaggerating but... Stop coddling, and stop pretending that all of the wars for the last two centuries have not been funded by BIG BUISNESS.
I can list the facts behind this statement if you wish. It's my Other hobby. Keeping track of the people keeping track of US.

It's not paranoid to be aware. I can show you who / why / when every conflict was started, who profited the most, and why terrorism was born. Lies, and deceit cause action.

Why are we in Afghanistan? Why are they attacking the world with terror?
Because the U.S. BACKED Bin Laden. We provided training, and arms for him to separate from Russia. WE promised him control of HIS country.
What happened? He won, and we left him flat on his ass in a post war shitpile.
He never started all this. WE did.

Soooo Let them take away cough syrup, and brick wash. I don't give a _ _ _ _! It won't change anything.

http://www.mining.com/1-trillion-motherlode-of-lithium-and-g...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-war-is-worth-waging-afghani...

[Edited on 16-2-2015 by Zombie]

[Edited on 16-2-2015 by Zombie]

Chemosynthesis - 16-2-2015 at 04:06

Quote: Originally posted by turd  

You make no sense. What has being "technically on the continent of Europe" to do with anything?
And your memory might need some training: ANFO bomb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

"Swedish researchers have been sharing details of a woodland project designed to help European countries outwit future terrorists plotting attacks with homemade bombs." From the original article, the entire stated purpose is European. My distinction with Britain is that there is strife between it and the continent of Europe (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/129c569a-64fc-11e4-ab2d-00144...).
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northe...
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0206/678225-britain-eur...
This is having a political impact between the two. Also being an island, there is geographical separation. This was a minor point in my statement, and you can ignore it if you don't want to consider it important. You've already ignored the timeline. My main issue is the ten year gap, which is why I reiterated it after placing it first in the response. You might as well talk about PIRA, or the originals as though it were relevant. If you think it is, fine-- just say so and leave it at that.

Your original example didn't make sense, but the Norway Breivik case is better one despite the misuse of terminology (training is typically used for working memory, though you did remind me of the bombing I forgot, as the shooting aspect received more press. Thank you for that, I suppose), however in neither the 2011 Norway attack, or (the most pertinent example, perhaps, for both of our memories, if you so choose), a 2010 Stockhold bombing, were new restrictions attempted. Any correlation is murky at best. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Stockholm_bombings
Contrast with firearm restrictions, say in the UK and Australia, unless you have better examples. I am open to them, if you are polite. In the UK and Australia, restrictions were implemented in what I consider relatively short time after both the Dunblane and Port Arthur shootings, respectively.


Quote:

Things are really quite simple:
1) Europe has a long tradition of home-made bombs, be it perchlorates, ammonium nitrate, nitroglycerine or peroxides.

Wait, you yourself didn't understand what Europe had to do with anything. You're going to conflate regional conflicts like Basque serparatism and the IRA with Sweden? If this is what you're doing, you are hardly going to "simplify" things, thanks. I never said Europe was historically bomb-free... what I said was "I can't help but wonder if perhaps they are jumping the gun a bit when I am still reading news stories where explosives (including grenades and rockets) and automatic weapons were smuggled into countries such France, Belgium, and Denmark for terrorism, yet haven't come across any stories of note whereby homemade explosives have played a serious role."
Read it again if you must. I said that I am wondering if this is somewhat backwards as a strategy. If you disagree, that is fine. Reasonable people who read what I said without trying to warp the context should comprehend what I am saying, and you can disagree with me all you want, but claiming I don't make sense is ridiculous.

I clearly contextualized the recency of shootings and imported weaponry, and the lack of notable bombings. Talking about bombings half a decade ago, or a decade ago, is a bit different.... If you really have to pretend like you think I am entirely oblivious to any historical bombings in all of Europe, despite my noting the Madrid bombing of 2004 and excluding those in Russia (there have been several), then that is stretching pretty far for you to make some kind of point.
Quote:

2) There is a perceived increase of terrorism and therefore a demand for politics to act.
3) The populace has zero problems with restricting access to "dangerous" chemicals to professionals.

And now you're just claiming speculation as fact, unless you care to cite some polls. Amusing given your calling another poster an insult for presuming to speak for "everyone" in this post just today: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=61578&...
Please explain why the public wants chemical restrictions, rather than restrictions on immigration or traveling to Syria? Growing Pro-nationalist, anti-Islamic, rightwing sentiment is on the rise in numerous European countries. I could take that as evidence that the population would prefer isolation rather than chemical restriction. Now, if I did that, I would need to start using facts to back up my claim. I'm not saying one way or the other.
http://sciencenordic.com/more-extreme-right-violence-sweden-...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/islamophobic-hat...


Quote:
Combine these three points and you will get new restrictions. It's not "a desire for centralized control" (paranoia much?), it's the population who wants this. It's called democracy.

New restrictions are implemented by a centralized authority. That's called government regulation. A desire for regulation on anyones' part is a desire for centralized control and power (without power, regulations would be meaningless). Hopefully you're as aware of that as I am that there are a multitude of types of "democracy" (Athenian, representative, and you seem to just imply populist democracy as de facto). You're also seeming to suggest that the public wants the appearance of safety rather than actual safety from current attacks, merely because you claim people don't mind restriction. That is pretty tenuous, logically speaking. Now, I can't say for certain, but I think the average person would prefer to actually be safe from current threats than appear safe from potential ones, barring some kind of phobia. Which gets back to my actual statement you took issue with. "I just wonder if the priorities aren't a little reversed when focusing on future issues seems such a big deal when current issues don't appear to be being effectively dealt with. "

If you've ever seen the funding side of government, you'd know that there is incentive in taking on more personnel, responsibility, or the appearance thereof to argue for more funding. Similarly, when the fiscal year runs up, you run through all your office supplies (sometimes lab materials too) so you can justify your previous budget. A regulatory agency could definitely benefit from increased regulation. If you think that is paranoia, I find that highly naive.

It appears you yourself are likely of the impression that the appearance of safety is beneficial to incumbent politicians. Having established that increasing regulations is centralization of power to the regulators, and using your view that this is what what the demos wants, it follows that there is a political benefit to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yeA_kHHLow
Note: Obviously Rahm Emmanuel is not European, so if you want to take issue with that clip's applicability, go right ahead. I doubt the sensible point is lost on you, that I would speculate as I do. That doesn't it make it fact. That makes it speculation.

My post was really quite simple, and equally on point. There is a recent history of arms smuggling in the region, including Sweden. http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&... Restricting chemicals doesn't necessarily impact this at all. If your point is that the population may be placated by a bait-and-switch, that is a valid speculation, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. However, in terms of efficacy, my original speculation was that this seems somewhat extraneous to the most recent attacks, where groups are able to import automatic weaponry and rocket launchers from warzones into firstworld nations with state-of-the-art police and law enforcement, and stable governments. Nothing more.

If you disagree, fine, but I think you're just inferring from my posts to make argument like you've done previously, rather than addressing the substance of them.

[Edited on 17-2-2015 by Chemosynthesis]

Fantasma4500 - 16-2-2015 at 09:15

smuggle in a large amount of solvent oxidizer and acid to cook up some of the most feared materials
dump in sewers in miniscule amounts
then -- they can go fuck themselves with their goddamn danger radars

if their radars are giving enough false alarms they simply wont be capable of using it and will have to pull it back
http://i.imgur.com/uItbvri.jpg



Zombie - 16-2-2015 at 09:28



images.jpg - 9kB

gregxy - 16-2-2015 at 10:16

Once you understand that the things that governments do are all about justifying (and funding) their own existence, then everything will make sense!

If you want to make money, you need to spend money. If your in government you spend the taxpayers money!

careysub - 16-2-2015 at 14:37

Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  

It may have a lot to do with the Arms Trade Treaty that was just ratified, and put into effect Dec. 24, 2014.

In essence it took All weapons out of privatized hands, and gave full control, and responsibility into the Fed's. hands.

This may be the jump start of citizen disarmament on a global scale.


Please cite the part of the treaty that does this.

The treaty is entirely about export/import control. Exports and imports of firearms are already controlled by the U.S., this is nothing new.

Quote:

You should see me on the Conspiracy forums. I kick some Rothschild ass, I do.


What does this comment mean?

Quote:

http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/

PDF of the treaty...
https://unoda-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...

It's some bad news for us. The US is already in direct violation of the treaty. :mad:
Read thru, and you'll see.


I read through it all, and I don't see.

The Volatile Chemist - 16-2-2015 at 14:43

Poor careysub, missing all the fun of this thread. "You should see me on the Conspiracy forums. I kick some Rothschild ass, I do. " <- This was a joke, as far as I can tell.

The UN is so funny. Basically, the US does what they want, and the UN does what the US wants. (Just a joke here guys, don't jump on me...)

careysub - 16-2-2015 at 16:20

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Poor careysub, missing all the fun of this thread. "You should see me on the Conspiracy forums. I kick some Rothschild ass, I do. " <- This was a joke, as far as I can tell.


You seem uncertain as to the intended import of the statement as well.

When conspiracies come up Poe's Law operates in spades.

Zombie - 16-2-2015 at 16:42

Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  

It may have a lot to do with the Arms Trade Treaty that was just ratified, and put into effect Dec. 24, 2014.

In essence it took All weapons out of privatized hands, and gave full control, and responsibility into the Fed's. hands.

This may be the jump start of citizen disarmament on a global scale.


Please cite the part of the treaty that does this.

The treaty is entirely about export/import control. Exports and imports of firearms are already controlled by the U.S., this is nothing new.

Quote:

You should see me on the Conspiracy forums. I kick some Rothschild ass, I do.


What does this comment mean?

Quote:

http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/

PDF of the treaty...
https://unoda-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...

It's some bad news for us. The US is already in direct violation of the treaty. :mad:
Read thru, and you'll see.


I read through it all, and I don't see.



The way I see how Govt. works is to throw up a hand full of sand, and pick your pocket while your blinded.
The US cares nothing for the treaty as we are violating it since the day we signed.
We call the export "war zones" but these tools are being used to kill, and maim innocent people.

Now that Sweden has ratified, it is a simple step to add disarmament of the nation to the treaty to this as a "In Good Faith" clause. or show of good will.

I can easily see the US taking a similar tack.
There is far much more happening in the world than most people realize, and you have ALL heard the Elite Agenda "theory's They are not theory or rumor or speculation. Fact of the matter is the Rothschild family has created, and funded wars globally for 200 years.
The rabbit hole is far deeper than most any rational person could ever believe.

All I am saying is everything is not what you think.

Taking household products off the shelves COULD very well be a preparatory step in disarming the populace of the world

Before screaming "Hog Wash"
Look up the Georgia Guide Stones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

The very people that govern our planet want almost 6 billion of us GONE! The Bilderberg Group IS the ruling elite. The stones are theirs. They Have an agenda. That is all I'm saying.

careysub - 16-2-2015 at 18:57

Surely you know they are all puppets of the Freemasons. After all, their Eye of Providence was adopted as the Great Seal in 1782 to show their control over the new United States, their vehicle to total world dominion.

Poe's Law...

Zombie - 16-2-2015 at 19:10

Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Poor careysub, missing all the fun of this thread. "You should see me on the Conspiracy forums. I kick some Rothschild ass, I do. " <- This was a joke, as far as I can tell.


You seem uncertain as to the intended import of the statement as well.

When conspiracies come up Poe's Law operates in spades.



I bury my jokes deep inside my sarcasm.

In essence they are like a "Bouncing Betty". If you don't realize what just happened, there's a chance it's not going to end well.

I have to look up "Poe's law". I'm scared~

Edit: Poe's law. Yep! Been accused of that too. Once.

[Edited on 17-2-2015 by Zombie]

Zombie - 16-2-2015 at 19:31

Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
Surely you know they are all puppets of the Freemasons. After all, their Eye of Providence was adopted as the Great Seal in 1782 to show their control over the new United States, their vehicle to total world dominion.

Poe's Law...



Maybe at one time the Masons controlled things but now it has shifted. Masons are still in power positions but not like 150-200 years ago.

If you are not aware... Look up the D.V.D. party, Prescot bush, Guy de Rothschild, Smedly Butler, David rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, Adolf Hilter, and Benito Mussolini.

You know all the names but are you aware of their intertwined pasts? These men all had one common goal, and they worked towards it.
Their legacy continues. I'll give you one clue.
The current head of the US faction of the DVD party is our last president. He has been for 33 years.:cool:

I am the furthest thing you can imagine from a conspiracy theorist. I've spent 30 years watching the watchers. The FACTS will floor you.
Names, places, dates, banks, businesses, wars....... I can tell you who started them, who put whom in power, who funded whom, who profited, who had who eliminated, and why.

If you have a week to get the basics, you might have a completely different opinion of both the world, and the real people sitting right next to you.
This is addressed to everyone that reads it.

Poe's sleeping right now.

[Edited on 17-2-2015 by Zombie]

careysub - 17-2-2015 at 06:13

To close the loop on the story you are telling - it is that the Rothschild family (the Jewish Rothschild family) are planning to kill 6 billion people.

This story sounds awfully familiar - Medieval well poisonings, responsibility for the Black Death, bloody Passover rituals, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion...

If a joke, not terribly funny. If serious not terribly sane.

[Edited on 17-2-2015 by careysub]

Zombie - 17-2-2015 at 22:00

Religion has no role in this. Power, Irrefutable power does.

If the topic is of no interest to you I get it.

If you care to look up Deutsches Verteidigungs Dienst you will have a path to follow that is convoluted, and awash with mis-truths. What you THINK you know about our history is NOT factual.
George Bush is the US head of this party. You can follow your own bread crumbs.

In fact the DVD organization is a group ruled or under the instruction of the Bilderburg group.
Guy de Rothschild was the head of this group until his death.

I will not post links to anything. If you care to, find them.
I will however post the partial list of Bilderberg attendees. You can explain to me what they do, and what their agenda is.

AUSTRIA

Bronner, Oscar – Publisher, Der STANDARD Verlagsgesellschaft m.b.H.

Rudolf Scholten – CEO, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG



BELGIUM

Etienne Davignon – Minister of State

Thomas Leysen – Chairman of the Board of Directors, KBC Group



CANADA

W. Edmund Clark – Group President and CEO, TD Bank Group

Brian Ferguson – President and CEO, Cenovus Energy Inc.

Heather Munroe-Blum – Professor of Medicine and Principal (President) Emerita, McGill University

Jason T. Kenney – Minister of Employment and Social Development

Stephen S. Poloz – Governor, Bank of Canada

Heather M. Reisman – Chair and CEO, Indigo Books & Music Inc.



CHINA

CHN Huang, Yiping Professor of Economics, National School of Development, Peking University

CHN Liu, He Minister, Office of the Central Leading Group on Financial and Economic Affairs



DENMARK

Flemming Besenbacher Chairman, The Carlsberg Group

Søren-Peter Olesen – Professor; Member of the Board of Directors, The Carlsberg Foundation

Henrik Topsøe – Chairman, Haldor Topsøe A/S

Steffen Kragh – President and CEO, Egmont

Jørgen Huno Rasmussen – Chairman of the Board of Trustees, The Lundbeck Foundation

Ulrik Federspiel – Executive Vice President, Haldor Topsøe A/S



FINLAND

Matti Alahuhta – Member of the Board, KONE; Chairman, Aalto University Foundation

Matti Apunen – Director, Finnish Business and Policy Forum EVA

Henrik Ehrnrooth – Chairman, Caverion Corporation, Otava and Pöyry PLC

Jorma Ollila – Chairman, Royal Dutch Shell, plc; Chairman, Outokumpu Plc

Risto K. Siilasmaa – Chairman of the Board of Directors and Interim CEO, Nokia Corporation

Kari Stadigh – President and CEO, Sampo plc

Björn Wahlroos – Chairman, Sampo plc



FRANCE

Castries, Henri de Chairman and CEO, AXA Group

François Baroin – Member of Parliament (UMP); Mayor of Troyes

Nicolas Baverez – Partner, Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP

Pierre-André de Chalendar – Chairman and CEO, Saint-Gobain

Fleur Pellerin – State Secretary for Foreign Trade

Natalie Nougayrède – Director and Executive Editor, Le Monde

Emmanuel Macron -Deputy Secretary General of the Presidency



GERMANY

Paul M. Achleitner – Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Deutsche Bank AG

Josef Ackermann – Former CEO, Deutsche Bank AG

Jörg Asmussen – State Secretary of Labour and Social Affairs

Mathias Döpfner – CEO, Axel Springer SE

Thomas Enders CEO, Airbus Group

Norbert Röttgen – Chairman, Foreign Affairs Committee, German Bundestag



GREECE

George Zanias – Chairman of the Board, National Bank of Greece

Alexandra Mitsotaki – Chair, ActionAid Hellas

Loukas Tsoukalis – President, Hellenic Foundation for European and Foreign Policy



HUNGARY

Gordon Bajnai – Former Prime Minister; Party Leader, Together 2014



ITALY

Franco Bernabè – Chairman, FB Group SRL

John Elkann – Chairman, Fiat S.p.A.

Mario Monti – Senator-for-life; President, Bocconi University

Monica Maggioni – Editor-in-Chief, Rainews24, RAI TV



INTERNATIONAL

Philip M. Breedlove – Supreme Allied Commander Europe

Benoît Coeuré – Member of the Executive Board, European Central Bank

Christine Lagarde – Managing Director, International Monetary Fund

Anders Fogh Rasmussen – Secretary General, NATO

Ahmet Üzümcü – Director-General, Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons

Viviane Reding – Vice President and Commissioner for Justice, Fundamental Rights and Citizenship, European Commission



IRELAND

Simon Coveney – Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine

Peter D. Sutherland – Chairman, Goldman Sachs International; UN Special Representative for Migration



NETHERLANDS

Victor Halberstadt Professor of Economics, Leiden University

Ben van Beurden – CEO, Royal Dutch Shell plc

Paul J. Scheffer – Author; Professor of European Studies, Tilburg University

Edith Schippers – Minister of Health, Welfare and Sport

Gerrit Zalm – Chairman of the Managing Board, ABN-AMRO Bank N.V.

H.R.H. Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands



NORWAY

Svein Richard Brandtzæg – President and CEO, Norsk Hydro ASA

Leif O. Høegh – Chairman, Höegh Autoliners AS

Westye Høegh – Senior Advisor, Höegh Autoliners AS

Eivind Reiten – Chairman, Klaveness Marine Holding AS

Christian Rynning-Tønnesen – President and CEO, Statkraft AS

Jens Ulltveit-Moe – Founder and CEO, Umoe AS



PORTUGAL

Francisco Pinto Balsemão – Chairman, Impresa SGPS

Paulo Macedo – Minister of Health

Inês de Medeiros – Member of Parliament, Socialist Party



SPAIN

García-Margallo, José Manuel Minister of Foreign Affairs and Cooperation

Juan María Nin Génova – Deputy Chairman and CEO, CaixaBank

H.M. the Queen of Spain

Juan Luis Cebrián – Executive Chairman, Grupo PRISA

SWEDEN

Carl Bildt – Minister for Foreign Affairs

Buskhe, Håkan President and CEO, Saab AB

Wallenberg, Jacob Chairman, Investor AB

Wallenberg, Marcus Chairman of the Board of Directors, Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken AB

Lifvendahl, Tove Political Editor in Chief, Svenska Dagbladet

Svanberg, Carl-Henric Chairman, Volvo AB and BP plc



SWITZERLAND

Kudelski, André Chairman and CEO, Kudelski Group

Vasella, Daniel L. Honorary Chairman, Novartis International



TURKEY

Göle, Nilüfer Professor of Sociology, École des Hautes Études en Sciences Sociales

Koç, Mustafa Chairman, Koç Holding A.S.

Çandar, Cengiz Senior Columnist, Al Monitor and Radikal

Oran, Umut Deputy Chairman, Republican People’s Party (CHP)

Taftalı, A. Ümit Member of the Board, Suna and Inan Kiraç Foundation



UNITED KINGDOM

Marcus Agius – Non-Executive Chairman, PA Consulting Group

Helen Alexander – Chairman, UBM plc

Edward M. Balls – Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer

Cowper-Coles, Sherard Senior Adviser to the Group Chairman and Group CEO, HSBC Holdings plc

Dudley, Robert Group Chief Executive, BP plc

Mandelson, Peter Chairman, Global Counsel LLP

Micklethwait, John Editor-in-Chief, The Economist

Kerr, John Deputy Chairman, Scottish Power

Greening, Justine Secretary of State for International Development

Flint, Douglas J. Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plcNLD Samsom, Diederik M. Parliamentary Leader PvdA (Labour Party)

Sawers, John Chief, Secret Intelligence Service

Osborne, George Chancellor of the Exchequer

Wolf, Martin H. Chief Economics Commentator, The Financial Times



UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Keith B. Alexander – Former Commander, U.S. Cyber Command; Former Director, National Security Agency

Roger C. Altman – Executive Chairman, Evercore

Nicolas Berggruen – Chairman, Berggruen Institute on Governance

Robert B. Zoellick – Chairman, Board of International Advisors, The Goldman Sachs Group

Li, Cheng Director, John L.Thornton China Center,The Brookings Institution

Greenberg, Evan G. Chairman and CEO, ACE Group

Feldstein, Martin S. Professor of Economics, Harvard University; President Emeritus, NBER

Jackson, Shirley Ann President, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

Jacobs, Kenneth M. Chairman and CEO, Lazard

Johnson, James A. Chairman, Johnson Capital Partners

Karp, Alex CEO, Palantir Technologies

Katz, Bruce J. Vice President and Co-Director, Metropolitan Policy Program, The Brookings Institution

Kravis, Henry R. Co-Chairman and Co-CEO, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.

Kravis, Marie-Josée Senior Fellow and Vice Chair, Hudson Institute

Schmidt, Eric E. Executive Chairman, Google Inc.

Shih, Clara CEO and Founder, Hearsay Social

Kissinger, Henry A. Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.

Kleinfeld, Klaus Chairman and CEO, Alcoa

Donilon, Thomas E. Senior Partner, O’Melveny and Myers; Former U.S. National Security Advisor

Gfoeller, Michael Independent Consultant

Rubin, Robert E. Co-Chair, Council on Foreign Relations; Former Secretary of the Treasury

Rumer, Eugene Senior Associate and Director, Russia and Eurasia Program, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

McAfee, Andrew Principal Research Scientist, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Mundie, Craig J. Senior Advisor to the CEO, Microsoft Corporation

Murray, Charles A. W.H. Brady Scholar, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research

Hockfield, Susan President Emerita, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Hoffman, Reid Co-Founder and Executive Chairman, LinkedIn

Perle, Richard N. Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute

Petraeus, David H. Chairman, KKR Global Institute

Reed, Kasim Mayor of Atlanta

Thiel, Peter A. President, Thiel Capital

Summers, Lawrence H. Charles W. Eliot University Professor, Harvard University

Spence, A. Michael Professor of Economics, New York University

Warsh, Kevin M. Distinguished Visiting Fellow and Lecturer, Stanford University

Wolfensohn, James D. Chairman and CEO, Wolfensohn and Company



It may take a month to get up to speed but your vision of sanity may change.
Also I will not debate this. People either believe they are being lied to, or they do not. Those that believe there is more than what we are told will look up facts for themselves, and I am always happy to engage in conversation about same.
I have too much to do to debate facts against opinion.

[Edited on 18-2-2015 by Zombie]

macckone - 18-2-2015 at 00:03

The bilderberg groups sole purpose is accumulating money and power.
They are not nazis communists or lizards. Yes some people claim they are
Lizard people. Their control of various political parties is likely true given
That some are heads of their political parties. They are simply trying to
Make the world safer for the ultra rich to get richer and screw everyone else.
But all this is not relevant to chemistry.

Zombie - 18-2-2015 at 00:23

I was merely answering a question, and in a real sense this does relate.
Nothing happens unless the people on that list approve, and implement it first. What you can or can not purchase or own is determined by them. Not Santa nor any politician or political group.

I assure you that the removal of chemicals from the general populace is a Bilderberg deigned agenda.

If you read anything on the DVD you would find there would have been NO NAZI's if the Rothschilds did not fund them. It is all historical fact, and the money trail proves it out. Like I said... I will leave it to you to decide to research it or not.

OhMyGod! - 18-2-2015 at 11:47

We moved our business to Ireland because of over-regulation in the UK. With 2 Ph.Ds and a M.Sc with more than 80-years combined experience, we were getting pissed off to have brainless police, who failed basic science at school, knocking at our door wanting to know what we were doing whenever we ordered something from Sigma-Aldrich.

Here, in Ireland, we run a successful business with academic links. We can order what we wantm, when we want, without hassle.

Britain has become a politically-correct, 'elf-an-safety-mad country. Avoid risk at all costs, seems to be the new motto.

There. It's out of my system.

The Volatile Chemist - 18-2-2015 at 13:39

Ahmet Üzümcü – Director-General, Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons

A cool name, cooler job. B&F, a.k.a. Toilet Plunger, would flip out.

You're right careysub, I didn't get the joke.

Brain&Force - 18-2-2015 at 14:27

WHAT?!? HOW DARE HE HAVE SO MANY UMLAUTS?!?

ÖNLŸ Ï CÄN HÄVE MÖRE ÜMLÄÜTS THÄN HË!!!

Seriously, I hope they ban paper, it's dangerously flammable and can thus be used to make a bomb. Table salt should also be banned as it contains sodium, a dangerous chemical that explodes violently on contact with water, and chlorine, a toxic gas used as a chemical weapon.

OhMyGod! - 20-2-2015 at 12:30

Um Laut? Who are you calling a Lout?:P

Zombie - 20-2-2015 at 14:02

Quote: Originally posted by OhMyGod!  
Um Laut? Who are you calling a Lout?:P



Don't sweat it. They have already seen his post, and have a "goon squad" dispatched.

Safes fall on people every day! :o