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Mabus
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Sweden hosts project to stop homemade bombs
http://www.thelocal.se/20150212/sweden-hosts-project-to-stop...
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Swedish researchers have been sharing details of a woodland project designed to help European countries outwit future terrorists plotting attacks with
homemade bombs.
In a forest in Södertorn, south of Stockholm, a seven-acre facility belonging to the Swedish Defence Agency is working on a project designed to
prevent people from being able to make bombs from household products sold around Europe.
The idea is to identify how to replace substances that can be used to make explosives, with other ingredients that are not potentially dangerous and
still allow products to fulfil the purpose they were invented for, for example cleaning or bleaching.
The project, which is funded by the EU, is looking at items including camping stoves, detergents and disinfectants.
"It's about how we can prevent anyone from making bombs from things that can be bought in stores," Henric Östmark, research director at the Swedish
Defence Research Agency told the Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter. But he refused to go into too much detail to ensure that knowledge being gathered
by the research team did not end up in the wrong hands.
The EU has already made it illegal to own certain substances that can be used to make bombs and it is hoped that the Swedish project will lead to
further legislation once replacable bomb-making ingredients within other household products have been identified.
Swedish researchers are also developing new methods to help detect homemade bombs. This includes sensors that can be mounted on the roofs of police
cars or in scanning areas at airports or even sewers, where suspicious particles from bombs could spread. It is believed that this kind of
technology could have been used to detect the explosives used in the London bombings in 2005.
"We are now in discussions with the European Commission to develop a prototype [of a sensor] that could be tested when the police anywhere in Europe
receive an indication that something like this going on," Östmark told The Local.
Details of the project emerged as terrorism was a key topic on the agenda for European leaders meeting for their latest in summit in Brussels on
Thursday, in the wake of the terror attacks in Paris last month.
In 2011, Norway was rocked by a bombing attack in Oslo carried out by Anders Behring Breivik, who went on to shoot dozens of young people who were at
a youth conference on a nearby island. Sweden has also experienced homegrown terrorism in recent years, with a suicide bombing in central Stockholm
in 2010.
Asked about the possibility of future terror attacks in the Nordic nation last month, Sweden's Interior Minister Anders Ygeman told The Local: "We
must not let the dark forces win. I can understand why people are concerned, but we are doing everything we can to prevent actions like these. We
should not be afraid and we should not be silenced." |
I wonder if they'll ban table salt.
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Tdep
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Interesting, wonder exactly what they're working on? Sounds like they possibly could be looking at bleach, but I'd find it hard to believe that they'd
get that replaced with another chemical that's comparatively effective and not a strong oxidiser that could be 'misused' in some way.
Yes, I guess it's bad, but whenever an article mentions the 2005 bombings you have to remember that they're talking about organic peroxides, and a
crackdown on organic peroxides is hardly the end of the world for home chemists. I think if you look at a chemical like HMTD's use in terrorism over
the years vs its use in home chemistry, I feel it's a pretty good target to police.
That said, I've heard hydrogen peroxide is becoming virtually impossible to find in countries like Sweden, and you'd think that was enough of a
significant crackdown.
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Mabus
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Yeah, there's little info on what they're testing.
Though I'm curious if they're experimenting on small scale or large scale.
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The Volatile Chemist
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Probably small scale, then they'll force it on industry 
Glad I live in the US.... yeah....
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Loptr
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Industry typically get's to do what they want as long as they stay within certain guidelines. Other than reporting, I don't see how this or any
similar method, could be forced onto industry.
Now, I have seen instances where you have to jump through hoops to get something, with it still being "available", just not worth the paperwork or
reporting. It's typically referred to as a behavior-shaping constraint.
[Edited on 13-2-2015 by Loptr]
[Edited on 13-2-2015 by Loptr]
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Zombie
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If they succeed, the logical next step would be for terrorists to buy "Hornet and Wasp" spray cans by the case.
Rather than blowing things up, they can now run around "macing" people from 30 feet away.
The world has spiraled into a madness that it may not recover from.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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macckone
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Bleach, hydrogen peroxide in any form, salt and god forbid someone get a hold of sugar or lard. Oh and air and electricity will need to be banned
too.
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Zombie
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Don't give them any tips...
I need my air.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Hawkguy
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My home lab could always use an overhaul and a bit of downsize...
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The Volatile Chemist
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Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  | If they succeed, the logical next step would be for terrorists to buy "Hornet and Wasp" spray cans by the case.
Rather than blowing things up, they can now run around "macing" people from 30 feet away.
The world has spiraled into a madness that it may not recover from. |
Or just drop cases of the stuff on cities from the sky...
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Zombie
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It would have to be from Gliders cause fuel will be banned.
Trebuchet's...
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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morganbw
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Dang, I wish I had your humor. You are blessed.
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Magpie
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For humor on society's determination to ban chemicals, this one is hard to beat, IMO  :
"Another material worth banning: Bones. Everyone who reads up on phosphorus production will find out that animal bones once were the principal raw
material for it.
No more chicken wings at burger king, only boneless steaks and chicken filet, no whole turkey, etc...
Possession of a dead animal containing bones is only legal for registered and licensed butchers, every other person will be charged with unlawful
possession of a drug precursor. "
- garage chemist
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Chemosynthesis
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I can't help but wonder if perhaps they are jumping the gun a bit when I am still reading news stories where explosives (including grenades and
rockets) and automatic weapons were smuggled into countries such France, Belgium, and Denmark for terrorism, yet haven't come across any stories of
note whereby homemade explosives have played a serious role.
I just wonder if the priorities aren't a little reversed when focusing on future issues seems such a big deal when current issues don't appear to be
being effectively dealt with.
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Zombie
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Not what my teachers said, but I'l take what I can get.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis | I can't help but wonder if perhaps they are jumping the gun a bit when I am still reading news stories where explosives (including grenades and
rockets) and automatic weapons were smuggled into countries such France, Belgium, and Denmark for terrorism, yet haven't come across any stories of
note whereby homemade explosives have played a serious role.
I just wonder if the priorities aren't a little reversed when focusing on future issues seems such a big deal when current issues don't appear to be
being effectively dealt with. |
It may have a lot to do with the Arms Trade Treaty that was just ratified, and put into effect Dec. 24, 2014.
In essence it took All weapons out of privatized hands, and gave full control, and responsibility into the Fed's. hands.
This may be the jump start of citizen disarmament on a global scale.
You should see me on the Conspiracy forums. I kick some Rothschild ass, I do.
http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/
PDF of the treaty...
https://unoda-web.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...
It's some bad news for us. The US is already in direct violation of the treaty. 
Read thru, and you'll see.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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turd
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis | | I can't help but wonder if perhaps they are jumping the gun a bit when I am still reading news stories where explosives (including grenades and
rockets) and automatic weapons were smuggled into countries such France, Belgium, and Denmark for terrorism, yet haven't come across any stories of
note whereby homemade explosives have played a serious role. |
Seriously? What about the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings.
In any case, we all know this kind of legislation is not about preventing professional terrorist attacks. It's about giving the populace the
feeling that politicians are doing something. And let's be realistic: the general populace approves kids playing with potentially dangerous
chemicals just as much as they approve someone cooking up a batch of speed.
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Chemosynthesis
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The arms control part is dubious as most UN legislature contains verbiage such as "Reaffirming the sovereign right of any State to regulate and
control conventional arms exclusively within its territory, pursuant to its own legal or constitutional system"
However, one of the only constitutionally free nations with regard to that kind of thing, at least ostensibly, is the United States. You could argue
Mexico too, in name only.
Ten years ago, not technically on the
continent of Europe. Kind of unusual to enact laws on the ten year memorium, at least in my mind. The most recent continental bombing (excluding
Russia) that I recall off the top of my head was in Madrid in 2004, and wasn't homemade, but diverted explosives. I also wonder how much of it is
fueled by the desire to have more centralized control, either for power's sake or the ability to request larger budgets due to perceived
responsibilities' expansion.
[Edited on 16-2-2015 by Chemosynthesis]
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Zombie
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Quote Chemo:
"fueled by the desire to have more centralized control"
Exactly!
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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turd
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis | | Ten years ago, not technically on the continent of Europe. Kind of unusual to enact laws on the ten year memorium, at least in my mind. The most
recent continental bombing (excluding Russia) that I recall off the top of my head was in Madrid in 2004, and wasn't homemade, but diverted
explosives. I also wonder how much of it is fueled by the desire to have more centralized control, either for power's sake or the ability to request
larger budgets due to perceived responsibilities' expansion. |
You make no sense. What has being "technically on the continent of Europe" to do with anything?
And your memory might need some training: ANFO bomb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks
Things are really quite simple:
1) Europe has a long tradition of home-made bombs, be it perchlorates, ammonium nitrate, nitroglycerine or peroxides.
2) There is a perceived increase of terrorism and therefore a demand for politics to act.
3) The populace has zero problems with restricting access to "dangerous" chemicals to professionals.
Combine these three points and you will get new restrictions. It's not "a desire for centralized control" (paranoia much?), it's the population who
wants this. It's called democracy.
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Zombie
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I call it Vanilla Rain.
Where is the practical limit? You could blow the crap out of a city street with a garbage can full of Cola, and Mento's.
People that want to cause chaos will ALWAYS find a way to do it. Truck tires over filled, and delivered from a refrig. truck, on a hot sidewalk can
kill dozens of people.
In essence I am saying this is much more. Take consumer products, and make them all bland... whatever. I don't really care one way or the other.
The post was right here on this site, Take guns away from law abiding citizens, and we are all sitting ducks.
Take draino away form home owners, and I see a lot of "crap" in our future.
I had to edit... If they really want to make an impact??? Blow the shit out of all the terrorist nations. ALL of them.
That will make a statement.
Now I hope you understand I am exaggerating but... Stop coddling, and stop pretending that all of the wars for the last two centuries have not been
funded by BIG BUISNESS.
I can list the facts behind this statement if you wish. It's my Other hobby. Keeping track of the people keeping track of US.
It's not paranoid to be aware. I can show you who / why / when every conflict was started, who profited the most, and why terrorism was born. Lies,
and deceit cause action.
Why are we in Afghanistan? Why are they attacking the world with terror?
Because the U.S. BACKED Bin Laden. We provided training, and arms for him to separate from Russia. WE promised him control of HIS country.
What happened? He won, and we left him flat on his ass in a post war shitpile.
He never started all this. WE did.
Soooo Let them take away cough syrup, and brick wash. I don't give a _ _ _ _! It won't change anything.
http://www.mining.com/1-trillion-motherlode-of-lithium-and-g...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-war-is-worth-waging-afghani...
[Edited on 16-2-2015 by Zombie]
[Edited on 16-2-2015 by Zombie]
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Chemosynthesis
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"Swedish researchers have been sharing details of a woodland project designed to help European countries outwit future terrorists plotting attacks
with homemade bombs." From the original article, the entire stated purpose is European. My distinction with Britain is that there is strife between it
and the continent of Europe (http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/129c569a-64fc-11e4-ab2d-00144...).
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northe...
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2015/0206/678225-britain-eur...
This is having a political impact between the two. Also being an island, there is geographical separation. This was a minor point in my statement, and
you can ignore it if you don't want to consider it important. You've already ignored the timeline. My main issue is the ten year gap, which is why I
reiterated it after placing it first in the response. You might as well talk about PIRA, or the originals as though it were relevant. If you think it
is, fine-- just say so and leave it at that.
Your original example didn't make sense, but the Norway Breivik case is better one despite the misuse of terminology (training is typically used for
working memory, though you did remind me of the bombing I forgot, as the shooting aspect received more press. Thank you for that, I suppose),
however in neither the 2011 Norway attack, or (the most pertinent example, perhaps, for both of our memories, if you so choose), a 2010 Stockhold
bombing, were new restrictions attempted. Any correlation is murky at best. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Stockholm_bombings
Contrast with firearm restrictions, say in the UK and Australia, unless you have better examples. I am open to them, if you are polite. In the UK and
Australia, restrictions were implemented in what I consider relatively short time after both the Dunblane and Port Arthur shootings, respectively.
| Quote: |
Things are really quite simple:
1) Europe has a long tradition of home-made bombs, be it perchlorates, ammonium nitrate, nitroglycerine or peroxides. |
Wait, you yourself didn't understand what Europe had to do with anything. You're going to conflate regional conflicts like Basque serparatism and the
IRA with Sweden? If this is what you're doing, you are hardly going to "simplify" things, thanks. I never said Europe was historically bomb-free...
what I said was "I can't help but wonder if perhaps they are jumping the gun a bit when I am still reading news stories where explosives (including
grenades and rockets) and automatic weapons were smuggled into countries such France, Belgium, and Denmark for terrorism, yet haven't come across any
stories of note whereby homemade explosives have played a serious role."
Read it again if you must. I said that I am wondering if this is somewhat backwards as a strategy. If you disagree, that is fine. Reasonable people
who read what I said without trying to warp the context should comprehend what I am saying, and you can disagree with me all you want, but claiming I
don't make sense is ridiculous.
I clearly contextualized the recency of shootings and imported weaponry, and the lack of notable bombings. Talking about bombings half a decade ago,
or a decade ago, is a bit different.... If you really have to pretend like you think I am entirely oblivious to any historical bombings in all of
Europe, despite my noting the Madrid bombing of 2004 and excluding those in Russia (there have been several), then that is stretching pretty far for
you to make some kind of point.
| Quote: |
2) There is a perceived increase of terrorism and therefore a demand for politics to act.
3) The populace has zero problems with restricting access to "dangerous" chemicals to professionals. |
And now you're just claiming speculation as fact, unless you care to cite some polls. Amusing given your calling another poster an insult for
presuming to speak for "everyone" in this post just today: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=61578&...
Please explain why the public wants chemical restrictions, rather than restrictions on immigration or traveling to Syria? Growing
Pro-nationalist, anti-Islamic, rightwing sentiment is on the rise in numerous European countries. I could take that as evidence that the population
would prefer isolation rather than chemical restriction. Now, if I did that, I would need to start using facts to back up my claim. I'm not saying one
way or the other.
http://sciencenordic.com/more-extreme-right-violence-sweden-...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/islamophobic-hat...
| Quote: | | Combine these three points and you will get new restrictions. It's not "a desire for centralized control" (paranoia much?), it's the population who
wants this. It's called democracy. |
New restrictions are implemented by a centralized authority. That's called government regulation. A desire for regulation on anyones' part is a desire
for centralized control and power (without power, regulations would be meaningless). Hopefully you're as aware of that as I am that there are a
multitude of types of "democracy" (Athenian, representative, and you seem to just imply populist democracy as de facto). You're also seeming to
suggest that the public wants the appearance of safety rather than actual safety from current attacks, merely because you claim people don't mind
restriction. That is pretty tenuous, logically speaking. Now, I can't say for certain, but I think the average person would prefer to actually be safe
from current threats than appear safe from potential ones, barring some kind of phobia. Which gets back to my actual statement you took issue with. "I
just wonder if the priorities aren't a little reversed when focusing on future issues seems such a big deal when current issues don't appear to be
being effectively dealt with. "
If you've ever seen the funding side of government, you'd know that there is incentive in taking on more personnel, responsibility, or the appearance
thereof to argue for more funding. Similarly, when the fiscal year runs up, you run through all your office supplies (sometimes lab materials too) so
you can justify your previous budget. A regulatory agency could definitely benefit from increased regulation. If you think that is paranoia, I find
that highly naive.
It appears you yourself are likely of the impression that the appearance of safety is beneficial to incumbent politicians. Having established that
increasing regulations is centralization of power to the regulators, and using your view that this is what what the demos wants, it follows that there
is a political benefit to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yeA_kHHLow
Note: Obviously Rahm Emmanuel is not European, so if you want to take issue with that clip's applicability, go right ahead. I doubt the sensible point
is lost on you, that I would speculate as I do. That doesn't it make it fact. That makes it speculation.
My post was really quite simple, and equally on point. There is a recent history of arms smuggling in the region, including Sweden. http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&... Restricting chemicals doesn't necessarily impact this at all. If your point is
that the population may be placated by a bait-and-switch, that is a valid speculation, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. However, in terms
of efficacy, my original speculation was that this seems somewhat extraneous to the most recent attacks, where groups are able to import automatic
weaponry and rocket launchers from warzones into firstworld nations with state-of-the-art police and law enforcement, and stable governments. Nothing
more.
If you disagree, fine, but I think you're just inferring from my posts to make argument like you've done previously, rather than addressing the
substance of them.
[Edited on 17-2-2015 by Chemosynthesis]
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Fantasma4500
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smuggle in a large amount of solvent oxidizer and acid to cook up some of the most feared materials
dump in sewers in miniscule amounts
then -- they can go fuck themselves with their goddamn danger radars
if their radars are giving enough false alarms they simply wont be capable of using it and will have to pull it back
http://i.imgur.com/uItbvri.jpg
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Zombie
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They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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gregxy
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Once you understand that the things that governments do are all about justifying (and funding) their own existence, then everything will make sense!
If you want to make money, you need to spend money. If your in government you spend the taxpayers money!
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