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Cyklonan

Laboratory of Liptakov - 4-9-2014 at 10:30

Cyklonan 1 is an explosive developed in the Laboratory of Liptakov. Ingredients: tetraamine copper nitrate .... 88 aluminum ... 5, nitrocellulose (12,4N) ... 7. Preparation: TACN is converted into the size of 0.1 to 0.5 mm. Mix with aluminum, acetone and NC2. The mixture is transferred to the wet lumps. These are passed through a sieve with a mesh 2x2mm. The granules are brought to dryness. Wooden molding product are produced cube 20x20x20mm. Density of 1.20 g / cc. The cube 2x soaked in 8% solution NC2. This creates a water-proof compact cube weighing about 9.8 g. Of these cubes are then composed charges. To the desired weight and shape. Work 117.7 g Cyklonan 1.
LL

Metacelsus - 4-9-2014 at 10:48

What is the sensitivity?

Dornier 335A - 4-9-2014 at 12:22

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a very weak explosive? I saw a video where 200 grams of TACN only slightly dented a 1.5 cm steel plate. Even ANNM should perform better.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 4-9-2014 at 12:49

Correcting: ANNM (plastic with NC, microballons, aluminum) is good for handling useless. It is highly volatile. Availability and nitromethane production is problematic. In many countries. Moreover, it is expensive. Yes, ANNM composition is stronger. Dynamite is also stronger. All compositions nitroesters are stronger. The difficulty of manufacture is much greater. Cyklonan is a compromise. Good handling. Non-volatile. Water resistant. Basic detonator initiation # 8. Spare initiation 0.3 HMTD only. Hand pressed.
LL

Laboratory of Liptakov - 4-9-2014 at 13:19

Cyklonan 2:
TACN ............ 80
AP......................8.......................................Edit: (NH4ClO4)
NC13,1N ........9................Gun powder (or spare 12,4N)
Al ..................... 3
It is about 50.% stronger than the Cyklonan No.1 Preparation: TACN + AP is mixed with the addition of NH3 in 25% aq. The consistency of porridge. Dried at 35C. Furthermore, the procedure is the same. (OB - 7.74)

[Edited on 5-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Metacelsus - 4-9-2014 at 14:46

I hope the AP in your composition stands for ammonium perchlorate, not acetone peroxide!

Have you posted here before ?

franklyn - 4-9-2014 at 22:12

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1970&a...

Laboratory of Liptakov - 5-9-2014 at 00:30

AP = ammonium perchlorate = NH4ClO4. Item repaired. The issue of Franklyn unfortunately I do not understand. I use a machine translator.
LL

Laboratory of Liptakov - 5-9-2014 at 20:25

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Correcting: ANNM (plastic with NC, microballons, aluminum) is good for handling useless. It is highly volatile. Availability and nitromethane production is problematic. In many countries. Moreover, it is expensive. Yes, ANNM composition is stronger. Dynamite is also stronger. All compositions nitroesters are stronger. The difficulty of manufacture is much greater. Cyklonan is a compromise. Good handling. Non-volatile. Water resistant. Basic detonator initiation # 8. Spare initiation 0.3 HMTD only. Hand pressed. Dornier: Laboratory of Liptakov not looking so much on video. Runs his own research. Therefore Cyklonan was not just talk. It is perhaps a broken steel girder little? How much have you tried those. Show me your results. Not strange video.
LL

PHILOU Zrealone - 6-9-2014 at 11:41

@LL
To me you have a lot of problems with your composition:
1°) Copper is not cheap and will be even more and more expensive with time.
2°) Copper is not enviro friendly
3°) If you have access to NH4ClO4...then you will get much more power by making Cu(NH3)4(ClO4)2 (TACuP).
TACuP is a much more sensitive explosive than TACuN...it has a little less power than TNT(in sand test) and relative good shock sensitivity (almost a primary)

So PHILOUZAN is much better than CYCLONAN!!!! (to be improved for best OB!)
80 TACuP
8 NH4ClO4 or NH4NO3
9 NC13,1N (Gun powder (or spare 12,4N))
3 Al

Laboratory of Liptakov - 6-9-2014 at 12:42

Because I use a translator about all understand. But I have not seen the test results Philouzan.
LL

NeonPulse - 6-9-2014 at 13:32

Do you have any other data for this composition? Like trauzl test drop hammer, sand crush, VOD, heat & pressure formations, RE factor? All these tests will help validate the power of this composition. We see it destroys metal OK and if developed by a laboratory these tests shouldn't be hard to do. Actually I'm kind of curious to know these results.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 7-9-2014 at 00:21

Laboratory is nick only. Trauzl the test do not. Bubble energy is do not. Measure will only detonation velocity of Cyklonan 2,3. Cyklonan is not explosive from professional labs for millions of dollars. It is a complex system. It is not only about composition. Shape is important. Important is the size of the cube (2x2 cm). What is important is consistency. What is important is water resistance. Non volatility. What is important is system kits. Many American patent states only test steel plate. Patents are often lacking even the detonation velocity. Or is mentioned estimate. As: 14000-19000 ft. per second. According diameter. In other patents detonation velocity missing completely. It says: The explosive detonated, and the result was good. This is a forum amateurs. Am I not Avi Icar from Tel Aviv University. Cyklonan solves these things:
1) Very easy to manufacture. 2) Good handling. 3) Good stability. 4) Non volatility.
5) Good sensitivity (excellent) to a detonator.
Everyone always wants the highest detonation velocity. And finally they even explode. The detonation velocity is not everything.
LL

hissingnoise - 7-9-2014 at 04:04

Quote:

The detonation velocity is not everything.

True, but neutral OB coupled with high VOD is most of the desiderata!

As a name however, "cyclonan' sounds like a RDX/ammonium nitrate mix?

Ckn

Laboratory of Liptakov - 7-9-2014 at 06:18

Or as cykloman. Or a bicycle. Or as cyclohexane. Or as 1,4,7 triazacyclononane. If any of you Cyklonan test results with improved composition, please. You can perform. I like to let learn.

PHILOU Zrealone - 8-9-2014 at 04:00

You have some good ideas! Like the cubic design, the blue color and the protection from water via NC.

But (again constructive criticism):

1°) You can use my receipe, I leave you for free the PHILOUZAN name to make your own CYCLONAN IV.
Then you will see what is a detonation.

2°) You must admit that the denting of explosion on your picture is only the proof of a deflagration (detonation would have cut it appart, squized it flat or pearced through much larger holes).

3°) TACuN(*) is unstable and looses NH3...
NH3 is not good news for the stability of Aluminium (NH4NO3 corrodes Al metal) nor for the stability of NC (hydrolysis of the nitric esters in basic media).
TACuN is no good news for the stability of Aluminium because of the Cu(2+) present in it... it is like a battery in shortcut.
--> Your cubes are sadly not very storage advisable because of inherent exothermic decay process at work with time.
Risk of spontaneous ignition upon undetermined laps of time and strongly dependant of ingredients, manufacturing process and storange conditions.

(*)I use TACuN as accronym because I have extensively written in this forum about TACuN, TANiN and TACoN (Cu for copper, Ni for nickel and Co for cobalt in related amino-nitrate complexes)

[Edited on 8-9-2014 by PHILOU Zrealone]

test

Laboratory of Liptakov - 8-9-2014 at 08:42

So PHILOUZAN is much better than CYCLONAN!!!! (to be improved for best OB!)
80 TACuP
8 NH4ClO4 or NH4NO3
9 NC13,1N (Gun powder (or spare 12,4N))
3 Al
Is this a joke? Oxygen balanced with NH4ClO4 is +8.889. With NH4NO3 it is +7.779. This is the formula for Philouzan? High positive oxygen balance? Worse composition I had never seen before. I have no words. You show results. While writing mostly nonsense.
LL

[Edited on 8-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Bert - 8-9-2014 at 21:10

Keep the discussion to chemistry and engineering.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 9-9-2014 at 03:14

I know, too many emotions. I understand.
LL

Varmint - 9-9-2014 at 03:46

With the outline of the cube clearly delineated on the target workpiece, it is clear to me the detonator is doing the majority of the work, and the composition is merely supporting the propagation of the wavefront rather than contributing to it in a major way.

If the composition was doing significant work, there should be no evidence left of the witness mark, that area too should be fully involved in the detonation, pehaps with a focussing of energy at the long edges, punching large holes exceeding the diameter of the charge.

As for the comment regarding VOD not being everything, this is true at the most fundamental level, but requires qualification. For mining of rock, you might want moderate brisance coupled with large gas volume, but for demolition work the more brisance and less gas the better. For all intents and purposes, the wow factor for "hobby" experimentation comes from VOD, the higher the better.

DAS

Fulmen - 9-9-2014 at 06:00

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone

2°) You must admit that the denting of explosion on your picture is only the proof of a deflagration (detonation would have cut it appart, squized it flat or pearced through much larger holes).

I disagree, deflagration shouldn't even dent 6mm steel. I have fired comparable charges of commercial dynamite and seen similar damage, so for a medium VOD explosive this seems quite correct. There are also square witness marks visible, supporting a proper detonation.

PHILOU Zrealone - 9-9-2014 at 08:33

From the TeACN tread:

Quote: Originally posted by Etanol

It worked!
Cu(NO3)2 + 10% NH3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOd4NTnolTA&list=UUd1EjH...

In this video, plain/pure TACuN 19g make a neat circular hole into 4mm steel.
Sole explanation for the "bad" results of cyclonan...a lack of confinement.

nitro-genes - 9-9-2014 at 10:44

Still trying to figure out the magic of cyclonan... What exactly is the added bennefit compared to AN emulsions in terms of cost, VoD, water resistance, toxicity and sensitivity? :-)

How stable is this cyclonan regarding storage, considering slow release of NH3 in combination with NC as binder?

[Edited on 9-9-2014 by nitro-genes]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 9-9-2014 at 11:31

Bottle with powder it is not Cyklonan. Cyklonan is a kit. Folding together. Waterproof. It is the system. Bottle with anything loose or liquid is useless. I repeat it for the third time. אני חוזר ואומר את זה בפעם שלישית.
One more time. The main advantage is ease of handling. The idea is easy to handle. And waterproof. Fold larger charges. Defined density. Initiation only primary folds. In case of emergency: LA 0.3, 0.3 HMTD, 0.3 FHg. Standard ignitor No.8. or No.6.
LL

magneet - 9-9-2014 at 13:10

Quote:

Bottle with powder it is not Cyklonan

Quote:

In this video, plain/pure TACuN 19g make a neat circular hole into 4mm steel.

the performance seems to come from the air pockets between loose powder, could your cyclonan be improved by adding microbaloons?

what is your method of synth for the TACN?

Cyklonan

Laboratory of Liptakov - 10-9-2014 at 00:05

Magic of Cyklonan is simple in preparation. Unlike emulsions. They are perhaps at your drugstore sorbitan monooleate? Or PIBSA? Do you have at home every high shear mixer? Who thus asks emulsion probably never did. The minimum amount for the production of emulsions is 1 kg. The first reasonable question: Microballoons? Yes. Cyklonan may contain microballoons. Does anyone of you have a lot of free time? Excellent! Take tests with mickroballoons. Easy prepare TACN in the topic TeACN. I'm trying to patiently explain everything. But it can not stand long.

[Edited on 10-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Cyklonan

Laboratory of Liptakov - 10-9-2014 at 00:42

Before the development of Cyklonan were considered all options. The basic requirement is very easy availability of precursors. PIBSA? No, it is not. Acids? No, you do not. Nitromethane? Other nitroesters? Also, do not. NC 2 with 12.4% N? Yes. These are adhesives and paints from the drug store. Ammonium nitrate? Yes. It is a fertilizer. Cu wire? Yes. These are the cables. Ammonia water? Yes. That's drugstore. More is needed. Only AN, Cu, 25% NH3 in aq. and nitrocellulose adhesive. Acetone. That is all. It is Cyklonan1. You have ammonium perchlorate? You have gun powder? NC3 13.1% N and higher? OK. It is Cyklonan2,3. Cyklonan1 is the most powerful explosive made of absolutely simple precursors. It does not contain Al. Among all kinds of explosives anything like this has not yet been made.
LL

[Edited on 10-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

[Edited on 10-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

PHILOU Zrealone - 10-9-2014 at 11:03

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

So PHILOUZAN is much better than CYCLONAN!!!! (to be improved for best OB!)
80 TACuP
8 NH4ClO4 or NH4NO3
9 NC13,1N (Gun powder (or spare 12,4N))
3 Al
Is this a joke? Oxygen balanced with NH4ClO4 is +8.889. With NH4NO3 it is +7.779. This is the formula for Philouzan? High positive oxygen balance? Worse composition I had never seen before. I have no words. You show results. While writing mostly nonsense.
LL

TACuP is better than TACuN with regard to all parameters (sensitivity, sand crushing, VOD, density, Lead block test)...so there is little chance cyclonan made with TACuN would perform better than cyclonan 4 (made with TACuP).

Sorry to point this out but positive OB is not always a problem! See data hereunder (*)
Also your compositions cylconan are sometimes with negative OB while maybe closer to zero OB would be better...
(*)
Ammonium nitrate (OB +19.99% - VOD 3000 m/s)
Ammonium perchlorate (OB +34.04% - VOD 3800 m/s)
Hexanitroethane (OB +42.7% - VOD 4950 m/s @ d= 0.91 (max d= 1.85 so VOD >6000 m/s)
Hydrazine nitrate (OB +8.6% - VOD 8690 m/s @ d=1.6)
Hydrazine perchlorate (OB +24.1% - VOD > 7500 m/s @ d= 1.7)
Nitroglycerine (OB +3.5% - VOD 7600 m/s @ d= 1.59)
Erythritol tetranitrate (OB +5.30% - VOD 7900 m/s @ d= 1.6)
Mannitol hexanitrate (OB +7.1% - VOD 8260 m/s @ d= 1.73)

[Edited on 10-9-2014 by PHILOU Zrealone]

howgh

Laboratory of Liptakov - 10-9-2014 at 14:19

AP is 10x to 20x more money than AN. Moreover, it is freely available. The best way to make Cyklonan1. With ammonium perchlorate is necessary to spare. AN and TeACx composition must have zero or slightly negative OB with aluminum. So says the lab. Howgh.

PHILOU Zrealone - 12-9-2014 at 05:39

Quoted from LL:
"Other nitroesters? Also, do not. NC 2 with 12.4% N? Yes."
--> Just to put things right NC is a nitroester (actually nitrate ester).

Yes buying NH4ClO4 is expensiver than NH4NO3...
But doing AP is much easier than doing AN...at least to make NO3(-), I need to buy HNO3 or other nitrate salt...
At home everybody can do NaClO3 from NaCl-water-electricity...proces is cheap...(you can even buy NaClO3 99% 5kg/20€ even if forbidden in Europa).
The later can be converted (50% yield) to HClO4 with H2SO4 (<40%) and heat/boiling.

Eventually heating disproportionation can be used by fusing at controled T° NaClO3...NaClO4 cristalizes out
4 NaClO3 --> NaCl + 3NaClO4
then H2SO4 (<60%) reaction vapourizes HCl out of the system and set HClO4 free.

Hennig Brand - 12-9-2014 at 06:58

The couple of times I have made sodium perchlorate, I did it by electrolysis and then destroyed any remaining chlorate before converting the sodium perchlorate to potassium perchlorate through a double displacement reaction with potassium chloride. I have never done it, but it is my understanding that ammonium perchlorate is often made in more or less the same way from sodium perchlorate.

All sodium chlorate contamination must be destroyed, before attempting to convert the sodium perchlorate to ammonium perchlorate, so that no ammonium chlorate is formed. I think I used sodium metabisulphite, HCl and heat to destroy the chlorate in a solution of crude sodium perchlorate (been a few years). Dann2's website has, or had, excellent descriptions and graphs and tables for all these processes.

[Edited on 12-9-2014 by Hennig Brand]

C1

Laboratory of Liptakov - 12-9-2014 at 22:21

Thank you for the description Hennig. It is seen that NH4ClO4 production is difficult. I know a long time ago. PHILOU: Only you catch my word for it. NC2 is nitroester that you can buy. It does not have to produce. Your contributions are only provocation.
LL

Hennig Brand - 14-9-2014 at 07:05

I didn't find the processes involved in producing perchlorate to be all that difficult. I found the overall process very labor intensive, however, so in that sense I guess perchlorate production could be called difficult.

nitro-genes - 14-9-2014 at 07:56

sorbitan monooleate is piss easy to find (unlike 25% NH3 around here), emulsions are not that difficult to make, Ive tried couple of times using preheated food processor as high shear mixer. Results were pretty encouraging forming a waxy substance that could not be flushed away with water. Admittedly, the emulsions did crystalize out after some days, som maybe the droplets were nof tine enough to remain supersaterurated fluid.

But ok, a real question this time, hopefully no BS answer this time:

Have you tested cyclonan brisancy against a simpler mix of the same components? Would it be more brisant than a 95% AN + 5% Al mix bound by NC at 1.2 g/cm3? If the Ammonium nitrate and Aluminium are both in the micron range and intimately mixed, I have no doubt a #8 detonator would set it off at this density and may actually be more brisant than cyclonan.

AN pelets

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-9-2014 at 08:39

Yes, there is a composition AN 90 / NC2 7.5 / Al 2.5. / 1.2 g / cc- Cap No.8 sensitive. Performance is weaker than Cyklonan. Another disadvantage composition AN / NC / Al: Moisture absorption. Again: All options have been exhausted considered. Cyklonan1 is the best option.
LL

conversion

Laboratory of Liptakov - 30-11-2014 at 04:30

For the production Cyklonan 2 or 3 to be produced in the converter only TeACN. Production TeACP needless separately. Here is an example:
1) Dissolved in 60g NH3 25% aq. 30g NH4ClO4. (at 20-30C)
2) To 70 g of dry TeACN pour solution (90 g) (small exothermic reaction to 30C, but carefully, reaction end 10-20min)
There will be an automatic response and conversion TeACN on TeACP. Arises NH4 NO3, which is very soluble in NH3. Remains in solution.
3) separating the crystals with a sieve (see Fig. Topic TACN)
Another procedure is the same for all types Cyklonan. The resulting ratio of copper nitrate / perchlorate is not known. But it is a mixture of Cyklonan 3.
Very powerfull........ :cool:

[Edited on 30-11-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Cyklonan 3

Laboratory of Liptakov - 18-2-2015 at 02:16

Here's a Cyklonan 3 in action. The surface is modified, stick to anything. As flytrap. Breaking cutting the tree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV66ridyhxo
...LL... :cool:

Rosco Bodine - 19-2-2015 at 10:54

@ LL I agree about the possibility of a mixed salt of TACN and TACP being the product. A synthesis of TACP which I described many years ago and posted again recently uses Cu(NO3)2 as precursor for TACP, however the yield resulting is lower than what would be quantitative for the desired TACP.

The discrepancy provided by the yield very different from theoretical, makes likely other byproducts than pure TACP to be the result. For example, it seems possible the precipitated product which appears to be anhydrous could be a double salt of TACN and TACP or in some ratio a multiple salt of TACN and TACP.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=24817&...

From your described synthesis of TACP using precursors which would eliminate any nitrate, the TACP product you describe seems slightly different from the variant of TACP which I obtained by precipitation from a mixture which would likely have TACN present as a byproduct.

The product you obtained which would be pure TACP is reported by you to have a storage stability issue. In contrast, the product I obtained did not appear to have any storage stability issue. So it is possible that the material obtained by the different methods of synthesis are not the same. It is possible that the more stable material obtained by the method I used is actually a double salt or multiple salt which contains TACP along with TACN. Also possible is the formation of a multiple salt containing NH4NO3 and / or NH4ClO4.

Evaporation and analysis of the filtered mother liquor to find what is the composition of the unreacted residual material would be useful to confirm what is the composition of the precipitated crystals.

Decomposition by hydrolysis using ordinary water precipitates the copper from the product we are supposing to be TACP. Filtering out the copper oxide and evaporating to a residue should leave only NH4ClO4 which is not hygroscopic.

Any mixed residue containing NH4NO3 would likely be hygroscopic.

The weight of copper as a percentage of the weight of the decomposed sample would give an indication of the probable formula by percentage copper content.

I did not perform such chemical analysis. That follow up work at analysis is needed to be done for better identification of what is the composition of the product.

aduct

Laboratory of Liptakov - 19-2-2015 at 13:47

Understood. (I hope) For Berta system is used procedure NH4ClO4 + Cu + NH3. In the converter. There NO3 group is not. For Cyklonan 3 it is not so important. It is only a like secondary explosiv use. NH4NO3 is very soluble, the solution is aspirated, you're done. But it is an interesting idea that arises aduct or multiple salt. I know, TACN or TACP quenched using H2O and heat. There is a CuO, its weight will determine the composition. Thus was measured TACN, only. The result is TACN x 0.5 H2O. Respective, TACN+ TACN + H2O aduct - molecule. Similarly, well, it's probably for aduct TACN+ TACP + NH4NO3 x (X H2O). I understand, this aduct may retain too much water in coherent molecule. And especially if there is NH4NO3. Is there? Or is there not? How much water? But for this problem I have siply clever resolution. From the very King Solomon:
Blow it with strong booster! :-)... :cool:

...LL

Rosco Bodine - 19-2-2015 at 16:46

I think the double or multiple salt may be anhydrous, based on no moisture loss observed at approximately 100C drying. Also when coating with the melted paraffin a glass jar was sitting at an angle in a boiling water bath to heat the mixture sufficiently for melting the paraffin and flowing it across the crystals to coat them uniformly, stirring with a wooden dowel and tumbling the crystals by manually rotating the glass jar, there was no observable moisture loss or weight loss and only a trace of residual ammonia coming off the heated crystals being coated with melted paraffin. The presumed TACP appeared to be stable during this manipulation involving heating and paraffin coating. The cooled and dried material appeared perfectly stable in ordinary storage conditions for 2 years. Then the sample material was burned to destroy it.
The observed deflagration was same as for the freshly prepared material.

Heating to a higher temperature for drying was not tried, so perhaps if the material is a hydrate, it simply requires a higher temperature, maybe 115 or 120C would do it, or perhaps it is a tenacious hydrate that will not dehydrate on any heating, but will simply reach a decomposition point.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 20-2-2015 at 01:51

OK, I was curious to mix clear TACP + 2.75% paraffin. Pressing according to the system Berta diagram. Special attempt to Rosco Bodine. Unfortunately. The system Berta this mixture does not work. But air burns very quickly... :cool:

...LL

Rosco Bodine - 20-2-2015 at 10:34

I think the wax flows during pressing and fills small air spaces which are needed for DDT so for the DDT mode the wax is probably interfering.

The paraffin mix is sensitive to LA and should give a good plate test there.

It was the TACP precipitated in the presence of NO3 which I tested, so that could be a factor also.

Cyklonan 1

Laboratory of Liptakov - 20-2-2015 at 12:27

With the wax into it Berta system is not appropriate. With LA primer, to go for sure. But it is a problem. TACP, this is copper everywhere. If the primer spilled inside the cavity, hmm .. i do not know ..For laboratory testing OK, but in practic use it is no good thing. Here is video: produce and pressing Cyklonane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7iTv_O6cJw
... :cool:

...LL

Jimbo Jones - 20-2-2015 at 16:03

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

With the wax into it Berta system is not appropriate. With LA primer, to go for sure. But it is a problem. TACP, this is copper everywhere. If the primer spilled inside the cavity, hmm .. i do not know ..For laboratory testing OK, but in practic use it is no good thing. Here is video: produce and pressing Cyklonane:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7iTv_O6cJw
... :cool:

...LL

A friendly advice. Your methods of work are just disaster waiting to happen. No offense, but this video shows some of the most irresponsible treating of energetic material I’ve ever seen.

Rosco Bodine - 20-2-2015 at 22:30

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

...LL

Yes it is not a good idea for storage stability issues could be a problem using LA as the initiator. DDNP would be a better choice.
LA was simply being used as a standard for testing what is the sensitivity of the TACP to initiation.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 21-2-2015 at 14:12

DDNP is a good choice. It may be tested. Thank you. Without heavy metal... :cool:

...LL

Bert - 21-2-2015 at 14:32

Quote:

A friendly advice. Your methods of work are just disaster waiting to happen. No offense, but this video shows some of the most irresponsible treating of energetic material I’ve ever seen.

I just watched the video.

Yes, chopping up an energetic material on a steel surface with a steel tool sure does look like tempting fate.

"You can abuse the powder a million times. One time WILL be the last time..."

papaya - 21-2-2015 at 15:22

@Liptakov, you seem to complain about NH3 leaving your Cu complexes soon or late, why don't you try to use some amines (ethylene diamine?) instead of NH3? Is this even possible?

PHILOU Zrealone - 23-2-2015 at 12:42

NH3 will only leave its complexated place if the complex is left in open air (open system linked to the vacuum of the infinite universe). The complexation constant of Cu(NH3)4(2+) is quite high and so the NH3 set free will be low by definition!

Usually in a full filled hermetically sealed glassware the NH3 set free will remain low because it will saturate the little air gap above the complex; one may add some extra ml of concentrated NH4OH inside the recipient to keep the equilibrium on the good side!

Cu(NH3)4(NO3)2 <==--> Cu(NO3)2 + 4 NH3(g)

The complex probably passes from tetra-amino- through tri-amino-, then di-amino and mono-amino-copper (II) nitrate; thus not all NH3 in one stage!

Laboratory of Liptakov - 23-2-2015 at 13:25

Well, that's interesting. It is therefore appropriate to maintain TACN and TACP in a slight (1%) moisture? Thanks, Philou... :cool:

...LL

Vpatent357 - 8-3-2015 at 15:32

Hi Laboratory of Liptakov,
First, thank you for your research on new kit-explosives easy to do and your innovations.

Cyklonan 1 seems to be the easiest but is it powerful ? (good booster for example?)
And 300 mg of silver acetylide/nitrate primary are sufficient for the complete detonation of one cube? i don't have ETN,PETN,MHN...

For NC, ping-pong balls lacquer can be used?

Laboratory of Liptakov - 10-3-2015 at 14:06

Hi Patent :-)
Ping pong balls? Sure, of course. In 90 g of acetone dissolved 10 g balls. Ag binary salt primer? Unfortunately, I do not know. Untested. But I think, 300mg will be good kick. Or 0,2-0,3g HMTD, of course. Yes, Cyklonan (1 cube) is a good booster for AN /fuel/ Al mixture. Coming soon you see Ammonium nitrate, special fuel without nitro esters composition on only primary 0,5g sensitive.
... :cool:

...LL

[Edited on 10-3-2015 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Vpatent357 - 10-3-2015 at 14:36

It remains for me to synthesize TACN
From what I know, it is secondary explosive. Is it safe to handle and store dry powder? more sensitive than ETN / PETN? for example

You have already experimented cyklonan with NC ping pong balls? it is of low quality and contains camphor ..

It's perfect :cool:

I looking for exactly this kind of boost for AN mixtures, thank I follow your youtube channel very closely

[Edited on 10-3-2015 by Vpatent357]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 11-3-2015 at 11:45

Cyklonan 1 is similar sensitivity, low sensitivity as PETN. I see that Cyklonan works. Thank you for using Cyklonan explosive.... :cool:

...LL

Trotsky - 11-3-2015 at 21:53

Why would you use ping pong balls for a nitrocellulose source? I don't get how you've got silver acetylide, but have to resort to ping pong balls for NC? Nitrocellulose is ridiculously easy to synthesize, everything you need to do it is readily available, just sulfuric acid, some nitrate salt, and cotton balls, sodium carbonate or even bicarbonate to neutralize when you're finished. You don't have to watch the temp very close, if you make any attempt at all to keep it cool you should have zero risk of runaway, especially with a small batch. And even if you have a runaway you're not at risk of accidental explosion…

Vpatent357 - 12-3-2015 at 11:49

Because I'm in the same approach as Dr. Liptakov,that is to say, Created my explosives as simply as possible with materials easily accessible and without nitration ..

Yes SA.DS is very easy to do and effective as a primary, TACN seems very easy to produce secondary, even though we know nothing about him (sensibility, storage..)

I can only find ammonia 20% and not 25%, it can work for the synthesis TACN? And are there specific recommendations for synthesis?

Laboratory of Liptakov - 13-3-2015 at 13:33

Of course, only 20% NH3OH no problem to use. Because during the reaction concentration is decreasing. Perhaps 15%, perhaps only 10% at end of reaction. That is no problem. The entire reaction works in a wide range. 10-40 g Cu wire. 50-120 g NH4NO3 dissolved. 100 -150 g NH3OH 15-25%. The temperature reaction range 10-50 Celsius. 30 degrees Celsius is optimum, the optimum of 30 g of Cu, 100 g NH4NO3 optimum, 140 g NH3OH in aqa optimum concentration of 20-25%. After cooling on 5C, separe on fine sieve. Dry. and etc. by Liptakov Channel.. :cool:

...LL

PHILOU Zrealone - 14-3-2015 at 05:06

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Of course, only 20% NH3OH no problem to use. Because during the reaction concentration is decreasing. Perhaps 15%, perhaps only 10% at end of reaction. That is no problem. The entire reaction works in a wide range. 10-40 g Cu wire. 50-120 g NH4NO3 dissolved. 100 -150 g NH3OH 15-25%. The temperature reaction range 10-50 Celsius. 30 degrees Celsius is optimum, the optimum of 30 g of Cu, 100 g NH4NO3 optimum, 140 g NH3OH in aqa optimum concentration of 20-25%. After cooling on 5C, separe on fine sieve. Dry. and etc. by Liptakov Channel.. :cool:

...LL

NH4OH not NH3OH!

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-3-2015 at 05:32

Of course, NH4OH, thanks Philou, I'm sorry....

...

...LL

PHILOU Zrealone - 14-3-2015 at 05:41

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Of course, NH4OH, thanks Philou, I'm sorry....

...

...LL

No problemo

NH2OH (hydroxylamine) would be nice to experiment with owing to the high VOD of HAN (hydroxylamine nitrate - NH2OH.HNO3 (HO-NH3NO3)) (arround 8000 m/s).

I wonder if it will complexate competitively against NH3 via the NH2, via the OH or like NH2-NH2 with both.

[Edited on 14-3-2015 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Marcello0922 - 11-9-2024 at 09:52

Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine

@ LL I agree about the possibility of a mixed salt of TACN and TACP being the product. A synthesis of TACP which I described many years ago and posted again recently uses Cu(NO3)2 as precursor for TACP, however the yield resulting is lower than what would be quantitative for the desired TACP.

If you are synthesizing TACP using Cu(NO3)2 then the final reaction produces about 90% TACP and 10% TACN - I have tested this several times using XRD.

Synthesis of TACP with NH4ClO4, CuO and NH3(aq) gives a pure product. XRD showed that [Cu(NH3)4](ClO4)2 is then formed as a deformed octahedron.

The most interesting thing is that with the above method and the addition of hexamine, the reaction proceeds even at room temperature (reaction catalyst?), while the XRD products showed that:

[Cu(NH3)5][NH3](ClO4)3 - crystals in the form of a pyramid with a square base and a perfect trigonal bipyramid. The content of the latter compound was about 86%, while [Cu(NH3)4](ClO4)2 was only 14%.

Etanol - 11-9-2024 at 23:13

Quote: Originally posted by Marcello0922

The most interesting thing is that with the above method and the addition of hexamine, the reaction proceeds even at room temperature (reaction catalyst?), while the XRD products showed that:

[Cu(NH3)5][NH3](ClO4)3 - crystals in the form of a pyramid with a square base and a perfect trigonal bipyramid. The content of the latter compound was about 86%, while [Cu(NH3)4](ClO4)2 was only 14%.

[Cu(NH3)5][NH3](ClO4)3 ?
Copper(III) complex?
May be [Cu(NH3)5][NH4](ClO4)3 or [Cu(NH3)4][NH4](ClO4)3 ?

Marcello0922 - 12-9-2024 at 16:14

The pattern I wrote was confirmed by 3 people - 1 who did the XRD study and 2 who do the spectra resolving. And this was on 5 samples after each synthesis. I know this is strange.

But I have another question by the way: what products can be in the filtrate? In addition to the Schweizer reagent, of course. And unreacted hexamine or ammonium perchlorate.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 13-9-2024 at 09:48

Interesting research of crystalography, Marcello.....With a lot pyamides.
In mother liquor will NH4ClO4, CuO, diluted TACP, diluted hexamine + ammmonium hydroxide. This liquor
is possible evaporate about cca 30 C and obtain next dry energetic material with different (usually slow burned) properties against TACP / CHP.
Mother liquor 10g + 100g dH2O is also possible boil at cca 100 C.

At the high temperature arise fine dry powder CuO, crystalls NH4ClO4+ crystalls hexamine. All gas NH3/4 get out from solution.
At boiling pure TACP mother liquor arise CuO powder + NH4ClO4. All gas NH3/4 get out from solution.... :cool: