| Pages:
1
2
3 |
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
Cyklonan
Cyklonan 1 is an explosive developed in the Laboratory of Liptakov. Ingredients: tetraamine copper nitrate .... 88 aluminum ... 5, nitrocellulose
(12,4N) ... 7. Preparation: TACN is converted into the size of 0.1 to 0.5 mm. Mix with aluminum, acetone and NC2. The mixture is transferred to the
wet lumps. These are passed through a sieve with a mesh 2x2mm. The granules are brought to dryness. Wooden molding product are produced cube
20x20x20mm. Density of 1.20 g / cc. The cube 2x soaked in 8% solution NC2. This creates a water-proof compact cube weighing about 9.8 g. Of these
cubes are then composed charges. To the desired weight and shape. Work 117.7 g Cyklonan 1.
LL
|
|
|
Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
|
|
What is the sensitivity?
|
|
|
Dornier 335A
Hazard to Others
Posts: 231
Registered: 10-5-2013
Location: Northern Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a very weak explosive? I saw a video where 200 grams of TACN only slightly dented a 1.5 cm steel plate. Even
ANNM should perform better.
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
Correcting: ANNM (plastic with NC, microballons, aluminum) is good for handling useless. It is highly volatile. Availability and nitromethane
production is problematic. In many countries. Moreover, it is expensive. Yes, ANNM composition is stronger. Dynamite is also stronger. All
compositions nitroesters are stronger. The difficulty of manufacture is much greater. Cyklonan is a compromise. Good handling. Non-volatile. Water
resistant. Basic detonator initiation # 8. Spare initiation 0.3 HMTD only. Hand pressed.
LL
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
Cyklonan 2:
TACN ............ 80
AP......................8.......................................Edit: (NH4ClO4)
NC13,1N ........9................Gun powder (or spare 12,4N)
Al ..................... 3
It is about 50.% stronger than the Cyklonan No.1 Preparation: TACN + AP is mixed with the addition of NH3 in 25% aq. The consistency of porridge.
Dried at 35C. Furthermore, the procedure is the same. (OB - 7.74)
[Edited on 5-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
|
|
|
Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
|
|
I hope the AP in your composition stands for ammonium perchlorate, not acetone peroxide!
|
|
|
franklyn
International Hazard
Posts: 3026
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Have you posted here before ?
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1970&a...
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
AP = ammonium perchlorate = NH4ClO4. Item repaired. The issue of Franklyn unfortunately I do not understand. I use a machine translator.
LL
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  | Correcting: ANNM (plastic with NC, microballons, aluminum) is good for handling useless. It is highly volatile. Availability and nitromethane
production is problematic. In many countries. Moreover, it is expensive. Yes, ANNM composition is stronger. Dynamite is also stronger. All
compositions nitroesters are stronger. The difficulty of manufacture is much greater. Cyklonan is a compromise. Good handling. Non-volatile. Water
resistant. Basic detonator initiation # 8. Spare initiation 0.3 HMTD only. Hand pressed. Dornier: Laboratory of Liptakov not looking so much on video.
Runs his own research. Therefore Cyklonan was not just talk. It is perhaps a broken steel girder little? How much have you tried those. Show me your
results. Not strange video.
LL |
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
@LL
To me you have a lot of problems with your composition:
1°) Copper is not cheap and will be even more and more expensive with time.
2°) Copper is not enviro friendly
3°) If you have access to NH4ClO4...then you will get much more power by making Cu(NH3)4(ClO4)2 (TACuP).
TACuP is a much more sensitive explosive than TACuN...it has a little less power than TNT(in sand test) and relative good shock sensitivity (almost a
primary)
So PHILOUZAN is much better than CYCLONAN!!!! (to be improved for best OB!)
80 TACuP
8 NH4ClO4 or NH4NO3
9 NC13,1N (Gun powder (or spare 12,4N))
3 Al
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
Because I use a translator about all understand. But I have not seen the test results Philouzan.
LL
|
|
|
NeonPulse
Hazard to Others
Posts: 417
Registered: 29-6-2013
Location: The other end of the internet.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Isolated from Reality! For Real this time....
|
|
Do you have any other data for this composition? Like trauzl test drop hammer, sand crush, VOD, heat & pressure formations, RE factor? All these
tests will help validate the power of this composition. We see it destroys metal OK and if developed by a laboratory these tests shouldn't be hard to
do. Actually I'm kind of curious to know these results.
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
Laboratory is nick only. Trauzl the test do not. Bubble energy is do not. Measure will only detonation velocity of Cyklonan 2,3. Cyklonan is not
explosive from professional labs for millions of dollars. It is a complex system. It is not only about composition. Shape is important. Important is
the size of the cube (2x2 cm). What is important is consistency. What is important is water resistance. Non volatility. What is important is system
kits. Many American patent states only test steel plate. Patents are often lacking even the detonation velocity. Or is mentioned estimate. As:
14000-19000 ft. per second. According diameter. In other patents detonation velocity missing completely. It says: The explosive detonated, and the
result was good. This is a forum amateurs. Am I not Avi Icar from Tel Aviv University. Cyklonan solves these things:
1) Very easy to manufacture. 2) Good handling. 3) Good stability. 4) Non volatility.
5) Good sensitivity (excellent) to a detonator.
Everyone always wants the highest detonation velocity. And finally they even explode. The detonation velocity is not everything.
LL
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
| Quote: | | The detonation velocity is not everything. |
True, but neutral OB coupled with high VOD is most of the desiderata!
As a name however, "cyclonan' sounds like a RDX/ammonium nitrate mix?
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
Ckn
Or as cykloman. Or a bicycle. Or as cyclohexane. Or as 1,4,7 triazacyclononane. If any of you Cyklonan test results with improved composition, please.
You can perform. I like to let learn.
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
You have some good ideas! Like the cubic design, the blue color and the protection from water via NC.
But (again constructive criticism):
1°) You can use my receipe, I leave you for free the PHILOUZAN name to make your own CYCLONAN IV.
Then you will see what is a detonation.
2°) You must admit that the denting of explosion on your picture is only the proof of a deflagration (detonation would have cut it appart, squized it
flat or pearced through much larger holes).
3°) TACuN(*) is unstable and looses NH3...
NH3 is not good news for the stability of Aluminium (NH4NO3 corrodes Al metal) nor for the stability of NC (hydrolysis of the nitric esters in basic
media).
TACuN is no good news for the stability of Aluminium because of the Cu(2+) present in it... it is like a battery in shortcut.
--> Your cubes are sadly not very storage advisable because of inherent exothermic decay process at work with time.
Risk of spontaneous ignition upon undetermined laps of time and strongly dependant of ingredients, manufacturing process and storange conditions.
(*)I use TACuN as accronym because I have extensively written in this forum about TACuN, TANiN and TACoN (Cu for copper, Ni for nickel and Co for
cobalt in related amino-nitrate complexes)
[Edited on 8-9-2014 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
test
So PHILOUZAN is much better than CYCLONAN!!!! (to be improved for best OB!)
80 TACuP
8 NH4ClO4 or NH4NO3
9 NC13,1N (Gun powder (or spare 12,4N))
3 Al
Is this a joke? Oxygen balanced with NH4ClO4 is +8.889. With NH4NO3 it is +7.779. This is the formula for Philouzan? High positive oxygen balance?
Worse composition I had never seen before. I have no words. You show results. While writing mostly nonsense.
LL
[Edited on 8-9-2014 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Keep the discussion to chemistry and engineering.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
I know, too many emotions. I understand.
LL
|
|
|
Varmint
Hazard to Others
Posts: 264
Registered: 30-5-2013
Location: Near Atlanta, GA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
With the outline of the cube clearly delineated on the target workpiece, it is clear to me the detonator is doing the majority of the work, and the
composition is merely supporting the propagation of the wavefront rather than contributing to it in a major way.
If the composition was doing significant work, there should be no evidence left of the witness mark, that area too should be fully involved in the
detonation, pehaps with a focussing of energy at the long edges, punching large holes exceeding the diameter of the charge.
As for the comment regarding VOD not being everything, this is true at the most fundamental level, but requires qualification. For mining of rock,
you might want moderate brisance coupled with large gas volume, but for demolition work the more brisance and less gas the better. For all intents
and purposes, the wow factor for "hobby" experimentation comes from VOD, the higher the better.
DAS
|
|
|
Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1716
Registered: 24-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bored
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone |
2°) You must admit that the denting of explosion on your picture is only the proof of a deflagration (detonation would have cut it appart, squized it
flat or pearced through much larger holes). |
I disagree, deflagration shouldn't even dent 6mm steel. I have fired comparable charges of commercial dynamite and seen similar damage, so for a
medium VOD explosive this seems quite correct. There are also square witness marks visible, supporting a proper detonation.
|
|
|
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
Posts: 2893
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic
|
|
From the TeACN tread:
In this video, plain/pure TACuN 19g make a neat circular hole into 4mm steel.
Sole explanation for the "bad" results of cyclonan...a lack of confinement.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
|
|
|
nitro-genes
International Hazard
Posts: 1048
Registered: 5-4-2005
Member Is Offline
|
|
Still trying to figure out the magic of cyclonan... What exactly is the added bennefit compared to AN emulsions in terms of cost, VoD, water
resistance, toxicity and sensitivity? :-)
How stable is this cyclonan regarding storage, considering slow release of NH3 in combination with NC as binder?
[Edited on 9-9-2014 by nitro-genes]
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1386
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Online
Mood: old jew
|
|
Bottle with powder it is not Cyklonan. Cyklonan is a kit. Folding together. Waterproof. It is the system. Bottle with anything loose or liquid is
useless. I repeat it for the third time. אני חוזר ואומר את זה בפעם שלישית.
One more time. The main advantage is ease of handling. The idea is easy to handle. And waterproof. Fold larger charges. Defined density. Initiation
only primary folds. In case of emergency: LA 0.3, 0.3 HMTD, 0.3 FHg. Standard ignitor No.8. or No.6.
LL
|
|
|
magneet
Harmless
Posts: 19
Registered: 30-12-2007
Location: on a forum somewhere
Member Is Offline
Mood: lurking mostly
|
|
| Quote: |
Bottle with powder it is not Cyklonan |
| Quote: |
In this video, plain/pure TACuN 19g make a neat circular hole into 4mm steel. |
the performance seems to come from the air pockets between loose powder, could your cyclonan be improved by adding microbaloons?
what is your method of synth for the TACN?
Hi,
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
