Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Making bromine from Bromchlor-5,5-dimethylimidazolidin-2,4-dion

DocX - 26-6-2022 at 10:42

So Sodium bromide is not used anymore for pool chemistry where I'm from. Instead, the bromine content comes in the shape of
Bromchlor-5,5-dimethylimidazolidin-2,4-dion

Does anyone know if and how this can be turned into pure bromine in a home lab?

And yes, I know about the dangers of bromine. I have studied the classic conversion of sodium bromide and TCCA with HCl to bromine in detail. But this is a different entity. Looking at the schematic, the bromine is attached to the imidazolidine with a nitrogen, what does it take to separate it? And won't I get a lot of chlorine gas too, since the chlorine has the same bond?




[Edited on 20222222/6/26 by DocX]

mackolol - 26-6-2022 at 12:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZKh2RvfWBY&ab_channel=E...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bfHr7IAd6Q&ab_channel=A...
https://www.bitchute.com/video/RNssjAbGpYXL/

Literally typed that on youtube, don't be discouraged if something looks a bit confusing, sometimes simplest solutions are the key.


[Edited on 26-6-2022 by mackolol]

DocX - 26-6-2022 at 13:04

Funny, I typed in Bromchlor-5,5-dimethylimidazolidin-2,4-dion on YouTube also and got results like "Finasteride microdosing"? Strange.
And when adding "making bromine from" I got a lot of videos showing how to make it from NaBr, which I already know by heart.
I LITERALLY got none of the hits you have there. I guess my problem was I was unaware of the abbreviation.

But thank you so much! Those come in very handy!
Also, I should say I did find parts of the answer smeared out across like four pages of the bromine synth sticky after posting this thread. But like so many threads, it's almost inaccessible due to lost pictures and too much arguments for anything to be apparent. This thread is now however, thanks to you, a pinnacle of clarity!

Except ... it does seem to produce BrCl-contaminated bromine, doesn't it? I read in the messy bromine synth sticky that using KBr could prevent this. But really, if I had KBr, why on earth would I do this reaction in the first place?


[Edited on 20222222/6/26 by DocX]

j_sum1 - 26-6-2022 at 16:14

Tdep has done this on Extractions and Ire.
A full procedure and write up was done by len1 and published in his excellent book "small scale synthesis". I can probably post the relevant chapter if you can't find it.
He does deal with the chlorine problem from both a theoretical and analytical standpoint. I forget the details except to say the product is quite pure.

Texium - 26-6-2022 at 17:28

Quote: Originally posted by DocX  
Funny, I typed in Bromchlor-5,5-dimethylimidazolidin-2,4-dion on YouTube also and got results like "Finasteride microdosing"? Strange.
And when adding "making bromine from" I got a lot of videos showing how to make it from NaBr, which I already know by heart.
That’s the German name you’re using. In English it is usually called 1-bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin, which is where we get the BCDMH abbreviation.

Fantasma4500 - 27-6-2022 at 05:38

i have about.. 5kg of this stuff, ascorbic acid also works it seems
but what the hell do i do with the end product? im a bit of a collector but prefer collecting universally useful materials, liquid bromine is a bit on the risky side to have.
HBr? bromoform? it has potential for brominating solvents which can then maybe be turned into amines and then oxidized into alkyl energetics. DCM is supposedly a nice and safe way to store bromine but DCM isnt very easy to get anymore

metabisulfite is mentioned, this would imply SO2, along with already bromine and chlorine- could an ammonia trap be used to catch vapors and liquid, resulting in ammonium chloride-bromide-sulfite? would bleach be a concern for Cl2 + NH4OH? or what other reducing agents may we use for this. maybe reacting this whole thing with NaOH in hopes of achieving a naïvely easy to seperate organic mess from the inorganic sodium chloride/bromide?

maybe NaOH + glucose electroreduction, or would that maybe end up also reacting once again with the formed NaBr or can this just be countered by adding in excess hydroxide? i would hate to work with this organic mess and turn it into inorganic asap

DocX - 27-6-2022 at 07:42

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Tdep has done this on Extractions and Ire.
A full procedure and write up was done by len1 and published in his excellent book "small scale synthesis". I can probably post the relevant chapter if you can't find it.
He does deal with the chlorine problem from both a theoretical and analytical standpoint. I forget the details except to say the product is quite pure.


Ok, great. I have the book, forgot to check it. Thank you!

clearly_not_atara - 27-6-2022 at 08:32

The simplest way to "store bromine" is by forming the salts KBr and KBrO3, which are both shelf-stable, and which, combined in a 5:1 KBr:KBrO3 molar ratio with a little acid, produce bromine. In particular, if all of the bromine is converted to KBrO3, simply heating this to ~350 C returns it to the bromide. KBrO3 precipitates from cold aqueous solution (sol. ~3% w/w at 0 C)

Ampoules are more convenient if you have the equipment.

Mateo_swe - 15-7-2022 at 10:04

Just turn ordinary test tubes into ampoules with a propene torch.
Fill them with the bromine and use the torch to seal them shut in the top.
As long as the ampoule doesn't break the bromine stores like forever without any leakage.
Watch youtube videos on making the ampoules, its not hard.