Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Daigger?

Rich_Insane - 27-7-2009 at 21:56

Sorry guys for nagging so much about this, but it's been hell obtaining proper reagents and (certain) solvents. Everything's been so damn expensive for me and to make matters worse, my parents are picking up the signal (I'm doing my experimentation mostly in the underground, since my parents don't *agree* with it and think it's really creepy). So I found this place called Daigger, looks real nice. They have some t-Butanol for $2 apparently, and they look legit. What I'm worried about is that they'll charge $20 on shipping. I'm not purchasing anything overly hazardous, just some alcohols, and possibly nucleophilic substances for some simple nucleophilic substitutions (Recommend a few?). ACE hardware has a lot of what I need (as in toluene, xylene, acetone, naphtha, kerosene, etc.), but I'm hesitant on buying their H2SO4 which looks a little suspicious. If it gets too expensive, I will have to go for ACE hardware. Another problem is Nitric acid, which is also important in what I'm working on. I mean, I did order 500 g of Ca(NO3)2 to produce some HNO3, but I do not have that condenser apparatus, and I do not have enough time to spend producing that. I did see a nice thread on this matter, some good ideas, but maybe if anything comes up, I'll purchase a bit of reagent grade HNO3. I mean, I've spent 55% of my summer already just looking for sources and of course taking chemistry classes, but yet I haven't done anything (unless making a fail spirit burner counts). Even worse, my parents are hesitating even to buy me a few cans of solvent and some NaOH from ACE. God damn parents.

Right now all I've got is 2 lbs of KNO3, 500 g of Calcium nitrate on its way, and a scale on its way (which has been on its way from UK for at least 3-4 weeks...... Stupid Priority Mail takes forever). So this place Daigger looks real promising, however limited they are. Unfortunately their acid comes diluted in 1 M formulations, but I will inquire about that. If nothing happens, I'm going to have to out this whole thing off for another year.

Link for Daigger: Here

If any of you have anything to offer, I promise you I will pay without ripping you off unlike *some people*.

[Edited on 28-7-2009 by Rich_Insane]

Arrhenius - 28-7-2009 at 07:38

I don't think Daigger will sell to individuals, but you can try.

Magpie - 28-7-2009 at 08:33

Daigger is a well known scientific supplier. I agree with Arrhenius and will be surprised if they will sell chemicals to individiuals.

Acquiring chemicals and finding sources for same takes some time - years. Don't be so impatient - enjoy the journey.

I think it is admirable that you are taking a chemistry class in the summer. Instead of viewing your parents as the enemy work on them with a subtle public relations campaign. Convince them that this is all part of your grand plan to become a professional chemist and, more importantly, becoming financially independant.

They are most concerned for your (and their) safety. You have to convince them that you know what you are doing. If you can get them on your side all kinds of resources may open up.

[Edited on 28-7-2009 by Magpie]

Rich_Insane - 28-7-2009 at 11:24

It's harder than it seems, but I'm trying. my dad freaked out when i mentioned KNO3 because it is a fertilizer (and all fertilizers are obviously deadly contaminants *rolls eyes*). I've got to the point where I have to tell them what I'm doing, but I highly doubt they'll let me. I'm also interested in energetics (not the kewl kind) and I want to give it a shot (the KNO3 was actually meant for that and HNO3 production). See the problem in Oregon is that people are too wary of people who have chemicals of any sort at home. It's understandable, as we had a gigantic problem with meth labs in the early 2000's. But now I'm a little afraid of spending my money online, because I just discovered that my dad has access to my account (I changed the password though, but since I'm a minor, I can't have an independent account). That's why I'm trying to spend as little as possible there. I have a good amount -- enough to buy some good stuff, but if only this hobby were a little cheaper.

:( Daigger looked like a decent source. I'll contact them and see what I can do. It looks like they sell to schools though. Maybe homeschool?



Saerynide - 28-7-2009 at 11:25

Convincing your parents is probably the hardest part. They probably do not think what you are doing is evil so much as they are worried you will get hurt (or blow up the house haha). I think all of us who started before college had to at some point wait for their parents to go out before starting some experiment (my parents would have freaked about thermite if they knew!!).

But once you get them to understand that it is the educational factor you are after and that you are safe in your procedures, they should understand. Afterall, parents should want their kids to learn :D

Rich_Insane - 28-7-2009 at 11:36

Learning to my dad is signing me up for bullshit classes (I enjoyed Organic Chemistry though) and giving me 50 problems on a workbook (facepalm here). It doesn't help. And to make it worse, he's freaking out about how bad tuitions are and how I absolutely must get a full scholarship. As a result I have to practice for the SAT (I'm not even in high school). It's painful. To make matters worse, my summer is getting eaten up even after easing some of my classes. I have to wake up early and go to the lab for my research project -- one of my best/favorite subjects, but it's painfully slow (it's microbiology).

My dad would ease up if he got rid of that health hazard crap, but my Mom actually thinks I'm going to manufacture drugs and explosives (Yes, I may play safely with some HE's, but I'm not going to kill anyone). My dad works, but my mom does not, so they are almost never out. I was able to manage burning some KNO3 for the lilac flame (to see if I was ripped off) once.

Saerynide - 28-7-2009 at 12:50

Im not sure how useful it is to practice for a test that is 4 years away... that is probably more detrimental and a waste of time. The test will probably have changed by then... You really dont need more than 2 months to practice.

Anywho, I understand your pain. Summer is the best time to mess around... I was there too a long time ago. And where I lived, its worse than anywhere in the states when it comes to having chemicals (trust me - i live in the states now and its so easy comparatively haha).

Don't mention energetic materials. Just don't. Parents won't understand, especially if you are not even in highschool yet. Don't take this the wrong way, but because you are so young, they will not believe you have the maturity to handle these compounds safely, so don't try to convince them that you do. That'll only make them freak out more and worry more about the house being blown up or you losing a limb and cause them to be even less willing to listen.

And I don't doubt your intelligence, but someone your age is still relatively inexperienced. In both lab technique, and life. You've probably heard this a million times from your parents, but they say it for a reason. Because they have lived much longer than you and have seen a bigger picture. Our parents may not be as educated as we are, but still, we all have to give our parents credit that they have seen more of the world than we have. They have seen more go wrong, and they have seen more people they love die.

Think about it. Would you yourself trust another kid in your class with a bomb? I doubt you would. Neither would your parents, nor would any other parent of an 8th grader. So don't bring it up. They might even take away all your stuff and never let you do anything again.

Getting one's parents to trust one in handling dangerous substances is hard for anyone. Its not that parents necessarily distrust you personally, but that they don't trust the universe to run as smoothly as you believe it will. Accidents happen and thats why they worry. Hell, your parents wouldnt be good parents if they didnt worry about you.

As you get older, they will be more willing to let you experiment with, well, more dangerous things. It takes time, but you'll get there eventually :D Just hang in there. (It wasn't until college and I became the authoritative source of the house on all things chem and bio related that they fully trusted my judgement on knowing what I'm doing)

And then some things, you'll just have to settle for keeping from them, forever. Because they may never understand...

In the mean time, try doing some more, well, "normal" (or what they consider to be "normal") chem experiments to make them more comfortable with the idea of you experimenting. Grow some cool (relatively safe) crystals or something to show mom :D Everyone like crystals.

[Edited on 7/28/2009 by Saerynide]

MagicJigPipe - 28-7-2009 at 13:10

Unless your parents are like mine were (and still are to a certain extent although more recently they have been turning a blind eye; mostly because I don't live with them anymore). Then they may never understand and may be more afraid when you get older because you are more likely to do "more crazy adult things".

You might also want to think of the possibility that your parents are concerned about themselves (going to jail). I still get the feeling, to this day, that my parents were mostly concerned with either me or them "getting in trouble". They were very obedient.

But yes, even though I have way more knowledge than them about chemistry (science in general really) they still get visibly upset when I even talk about chemistry. In fact, if it weren't for school my whole family would think I was a few cards short of a full deck because of my experimentation and fascination with scientific (and sometimes "abnormal") things.

I obviously have issues with my parents because this is pissing me off just thinking about it. I hope you can avoid this scenario!

[Edited on 7-28-2009 by MagicJigPipe]

Rich_Insane - 28-7-2009 at 15:34

Well, see the problem is that everything I need -- I have worked with in the lab already (acids and solvents mainly). I work in a lab to do research, though it isn't chemistry, it is micro, my work is very much geared towards extraction chemistry. I haven't worked with organometallic catalysts, cyanides, or H2S, but I've worked with materials I need for extraction of melanin (acids, strong alkalines, chlorinated hydrocarbons, aromatic compounds). It is quite painful work though. Almost repetitive. I was actually thinking of doing some menthol extraction on those mint plants that grow like hell all over our backyard.

My parents aren't scared as much for my safety, but for the fact that I might get on a list, and it may prevent me from getting a job, college etc. I'm supposed to take the SAT every year after this. I took it in 7th grade, and from now on I have to take it every year. It pisses me off.

I would never mention energetics, as that would be a rather bad idea. I live smack in the middle of the suburbs.

Chemicals are quite difficult to get here, because there aren't hardware stores for miles. We live on the edge of a rural area (in the suburbs), but there aren't any decent farm stores around.

I might just study until college and do experimentation there. I mean at least I'll have the knowledge right? I dropped out of O Chem in the 2nd term (I'd be taking it in High school anyways). It was actually pretty good, because now I have ways to make my life easier when it comes by.

entropy51 - 28-7-2009 at 16:11

Quote: Originally posted by Arrhenius  
I don't think Daigger will sell to individuals, but you can try.


I've never had any problems ordering from Daigger.:)

Fleaker - 28-7-2009 at 16:25

Afraid of your getting put on a list? Your parents are afraid of that? Odd indeed that parents to a very smart young man can think things like that! If they're so concerned with your earning free tuition, perhaps they ought to encourage your amateur experimentalism--after all, you never know which professor you may get for your admissions interviews. Usually the older ones will then reminisce about their childhood chemical endeavors, and presto! you're in on the fast track. I brought photographs of the things I tried out at home to show and he got quite some amusement out of it. Obviously there requires some discretion on your part--you don't want to show them an example of you doing something stupid or quite obviously dangerous/borderline taboo.

Also, don't take the SAT or ACT every year--that doesn't look terrific. If you do take it with the purpose of sending out your scores, make sure you send the best results only once to the college of your choice. I don't know how much that matters with state schools, but with the more selective universities, I've been told by people who do the admission that it's a turn off to see 3 SAT scores sent in per annum. ;)


I think you should stick with the research you're in now, and perhaps it'll develop into another project more to your liking. Do the science fair every year, and design your own project.

497 - 28-7-2009 at 16:33

Man I was in almost the exact same situation a few years ago... Although I had it slightly better because I didn't live in the full blown suburbs. Still I totally understand what you're going through.

I think Saerynide and MJP gave some good advice. The fact that you have any sort of lab space at all is a good start. Unfortuanately I'd say you're going to have to stick with the bland boring stuff for now. When I was your age I *hated* hearing that, but sadly I found there was not much alternative. To keep sane I occupied myself with reading, researching, and planning as much as I could.. Of course "book knowledge" is no replacement for experience, but it does help a lot. I'd say it's payed off for me.

When I was young I always thought "Okay, next year I'll get into a class where I can actually do something interesting.." It never happened. Every class I was ever in was excruciatingly bland and structured at least 95% of the time. So my point is, if you want to do something or learn something, take initiative and *do it yourself.* Don't wait for a teacher or lesson plan..

At the time it felt like it would be an eternity until I was able to actually do the chemistry I wanted. But in retrospect, it goes by pretty damn fast. Not that saying that will probably make you feel much better about it :P

P.S. As Fleaker said, don't worry about lists.. Nobody (in the FBI or whatever) cares about some kid buying a few liters of H2SO4 at a hardware store.. Seriously, they have bigger issues to worry about.. Now if you start ordering 55 gallon drums of stuff, or a particular few heavily scrutinized chems, you might have some cause to worry.. Otherwise don't worry about it. Personally I doubt anyone has the resources or motivation to track every chemical sale in the nation.. or even a small fraction of them.

I'd be more worried about some law enforcement or misguided concerned citizen happening upon your setup (usually accidentally) and misinterpreting it as something dangerous... We have chosen a hobby that happens to look very similar to a drug/terrorist endeavor to the 99.9% of the population that is totally ignorant about it.. so keep that in mind.

[Edited on 29-7-2009 by 497]

Rich_Insane - 28-7-2009 at 18:06
Quote:

I've never had any problems ordering from Daigger.:)


that's the best thing I've heard today :D

I just call my parents paranoid and leave it at that. I have to keep my Communist ideology (and my membership to the party) underground. Hopefully the bulk of this country has lost all of the Cold War paranoia, and that my political stance does not interfere with my hobby.

Actually I am quite lucky with what little I have. I have a 250 ml beaker, 4 Florence flasks (2 round, 2 flat), an Erlenmeyer, 3 graduated cylinders, a whole bunch of test tubes, 32 small 1 dram vials, a large useless pipette (for transferring media in a micro lab), and my baby, a small unknown size Ahlinn condenser I bought for $20 in India. It's proven quite strong (it's Pyrex). The problem is that I have no joints, no bubble plug, and it's a bit dirty with the narrow end chipped. I may sell it. It's gonna be hard watching that condenser leave, even though I have to use for it :(


The problem with textbook knowledge is that it does not stick with me. I don't find it fun, but sometimes I find myself reading a chapter after a grueling bike ride.

Unfortunately I was not able to take the lab for the O Chem which I took at the local University (Portland State). The textbook for the lecture itself was $200, and the lab would cost extra for the manual. I swear that lecture class was pure hell. I mean, I enjoyed drawing up my own syntheses, but sitting for 2 and a half hours listening to a professor talk about electron distribution in allylic systems at a rate of a chapter a day, a quiz a day, and an exam a week just did not appeal to me. i have no other choice than to take the Summer term, since in the University Academic year, I have normal, bland, school.

The problem is that many reactions in the field of chemistry I like (O Chem or at the least Organometallics) require some very hard to obtain reagents, however simple they are.

Actually my research was indeed quite interesting. It's just painfully slow. In fact, I've been continuing this project for nearly three years (science fair material at the milestones). It's quite interesting. I may post up my old procedure in the technochemistry section. The problem is that the lab smells of butyric acid whenever I come in. Thank god the can of dimethyl sulfide wasn't open at the same time. really, all I need now is something that can supply me with the most basic reagents. i'll take care of H2SO4 and solvents, but I'm not buying HCl from ACE, that's for sure (it looks 50 years old, there's 1 bottle left and it looks like its been opened).

entropy51 - 28-7-2009 at 18:25

Rich, my advice is to pay attention to the people who have advised you to be patient.

If you've already taken college level chem, you're certainly ahead of where most of us were at your age.

As Magpie said, you really need to win over your parents. Some of the chems you mentioned are going to scare them. They would scare me if I my son wanted them, and I have all of them myself!

Try to enlarge upon the opportunities you seem to have to work in established labs. Get a teacher to mentor you on independent projects. You can use your initiative in other ways than buying chems that will just make your parents more suspicious of your goals. Show your parents that you can be trusted and many avenues may open up. In time.

497 - 28-7-2009 at 18:27

Quote:
I'm not buying HCl from ACE, that's for sure


Actually there are quite other stores that carry HCl too, just look for Muriatic acid. It's pretty cheap too. Like $8 a gallon at Fred Meyers IIRC.

[Edited on 29-7-2009 by 497]

JohnWW - 28-7-2009 at 19:31

Quote: Originally posted by 497  
Actually there are quite other stores that carry HCl too, just look for Muriatic acid. It's pretty cheap too. Like $8 a gallon at Fred Meyers IIRC.

Also called "Spirits of Salt", and sold as a soldering flux. BTW, KCl is sold in farm supplies stores as "muriate of potash".

Rich_Insane - 28-7-2009 at 21:30

I'll check Fred Meyer. It's not far, and hopefully it hasn't been chemically neutered like Walmart. Looks like ACE is my Number 1 source of solvents and NaOH (they have quite a bit), but can I trust the purity of ACE solvents?

HCl was sold as drain cleaner in ACE as a 31% concentration. Any ideas on some Glacial Acetic Acid? I know that it is sold to make bio diesel, but I'm trying to avoid online purchase right now. Basically all I'd really need is some chloroform, some acids (sulfuric, nitric, HCl namely), some aromatics, and maybe 100 g of a strong oxidizer (like dichromate, a little hazardous, or some permanganate).

I might as well hold off until later. I'll start compiling procedures and PDFs in a portable hard drive that I'll have locked in some way.

My research could've been a source for chems, but really the professors I have worked under are hesitant to let me take anything home (quite understandable. Although was able to get a few mls of KI/I solution, a few grams of TiO2 and some isopropanol to work on my project a few years ago (involving mushroom based melanin). That means I have I2 and KI stashed in my fridge somewhere.

They really need some hardware stores nearby. I could easily take some money and bike down to the strip mall if anything was there. I think there is a Walgreens though. Any suggestions there, any possibilities?

Magpie - 29-7-2009 at 07:26

Your generic neutered US drug store should have 99% isopropanol and Epsom salt (MgSO4*7H2O).

Ace has a lot of useful reagents and solvents. I don't worry too much about impurities. How pure your reagents need to be is application specific. If you need higher purity, then purify. It's all chemistry.

Not using a credit card or the internet is going to severely limit your choice of suppliers and your ability to get chemicals.

Rich_Insane - 29-7-2009 at 08:28

I can still use the internet. It's not a no-go. I do have the isopropanol and epsom salts. I might consider buying some H2O2. I have heard of the freeze method of concentrating H2O2, so i might bring it up via that from a 16 oz bottle.

I have a Paypal. That's about it, unless cash is accepted. Do you have to have credit with Daigger or any other company similar?

I'll see when I can go to ACE again. Tell me, is Home depot chemically neutered as well? It is much closer to us than ACE.

zed - 7-8-2009 at 00:16

Daigger, at least in the past, was an outstanding supplier. Friendly, helpful, and economical. Anxious to please, and prompt in delivery.

I used them, and I encouraged my college to use them.....they did, and they were very happy with the results.

In those less suspicious days of long ago, when shipping was much slower than it is today, Daigger actually offered counter service. If you needed a reagent pronto....you could simply drive over and buy it.

Naturally, they kept careful records and reported ALL purchases to the appropriate regulatory agencies, that goes without saying. But, they never were obstructionist. They sold chemicals and lab equiptment; good stuff at good prices. And, they were easy to do business with.

They would supply you with the rope. If you chose to hang yourself with it, so be it!

If current management operates as efficiently as past management did, I recommend them.

PS. In the past, Daigger was sometimes a secondary distributer of Aldrich Chemicals. Aldrich products being inaccessible to most small accounts, they could be ordered through Daigger. Very convenient.

PPS. At most schools, even high schools, there are ways to finagle lab space. In California, at a community college I attended, you could design your own "independent" study classes, chemistry included. Chem 49 it was called. You need a supervisor, but you get to play in a nice environment. Talk to you profs.

Sounds like you are under 21, but perhaps 18 or older. For most purposes, a full fledged adult.

If it is possible to set up a checking account, this should allow you to obtain a debit card for that account.

The debit card isn't a "Credit Card", but it will allow you to make online purchases, as long as you have sufficient funds in your account.





[Edited on 7-8-2009 by zed]

Rich_Insane - 7-8-2009 at 11:32
Quote:

Sounds like you are under 21, but perhaps 18 or older. For most purposes, a full fledged adult.


Actually I'm 14.

I am fortunate to have a few suppliers to purchase chemicals from nearby, however, since I cannot drive, it is nearly impossible to purchase from them. They are very nice over-counter sellers, but their online purchase system is atrocious.

Actually, all I am worried about is how much Daigger charges for shipping, then I would get straight to buying from them. I am now convinced that they won't be like most companies that charge large sums for shipping.

The problem is that their equipment is sold in bulk, so it is overpriced, but I reckon that I could ask them so sell me something in one unit quantities.

crazyboy - 7-8-2009 at 12:01

Except for scheduled or rare organic chemicals most things can be purchased fairly easily or synthesized. It sounds like your problem is your parents. I suggest you try to talk with them and show them that you can be responsible. Once you do that assuming you have money you can easily get many compounds.

eBay is a great source.

chloric1 - 7-8-2009 at 13:05

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Quote: Originally posted by Arrhenius  
I don't think Daigger will sell to individuals, but you can try.


I've never had any problems ordering from Daigger.:)


Some of there prices are better than ebay!:D
Well, on the chemicals anyways. I did just win on ebay a corning 7" X 7"stirrer hot plate, a 2 in bar magnet, and a 500ml flat bottom flask with 24/40 joint for $145 INCLUDING shipping. Can't even touch a little stirrer hot plate new with that price.

Problem is, half there chemical sizes say discontinued. Would be a great way to score small bottled of ACS reagents so I can prepare some standardized solutions. I will need to get a burret soon.

Rich_Insane - 7-8-2009 at 13:39

I did order some stuff from Ebay, include 2 lbs of KNO3, 500 g of Ca(NO3)2, a few pieces of glassware. I did order a rather nice scale, but for some reason it's taking 6 weeks to come here from UK, which seems rather unreasonable.

I will contact Daigger about the discontinued stuff if I need to. They probably will negotiate something.


Quote:

I suggest you try to talk with them and show them that you can be responsible


It's far harder than it sounds :P

wymanthescienceman - 14-8-2009 at 01:19

Not sure if it is of any help now, but I recently just placed an order with Daigger after reading about them in this thread. I had no trouble ordering from them at all. Took less than a week from the order date for my first shipment to arrive. Most of their chemical prices are very good, although the selection isn't the greatest.

I ordered some hazardous stuff like Ethyl Acetate and DCM, as well as a 2.5L ACS HNO3, which was one of the main reasons I purchased from there. I haven't been able to find a good source for high grade Nitric and this place has it cheap, and best of all will ship to individuals!

Everything was extremely well packed, all bottles of solvents/acid were shipped in separate boxes which is probably the reason for the higher shipping rates. I ordered 10 items and got 7 boxes shipped to me, seriously. The HNO3 was especially well packed, it fits neatly into its own box within a cool 2-piece styrofoam shell, and that's how I'm going to keep it stored. Well worth it if you can afford the shipping and have no other way of obtaining certain high quality reagents. Just be sure to make use of the HAZMAT fee and get what you need in one shot.

Highly recommended.

entropy51 - 14-8-2009 at 05:29

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  

I've never had any problems ordering from Daigger.:)


Quote: Originally posted by wymanthescienceman  
Not sure if it is of any help now, but I recently just placed an order with Daigger after reading about them in this thread. I had no trouble ordering from them at all. ... and best of all will ship to individuals!

...Highly recommended.


You're welcome!

[Edited on 14-8-2009 by entropy51]

Rich_Insane - 14-8-2009 at 07:20

Thanks guys!

Just out of curiosity, how much did you pay for your DCM and HNO3 (including shipping)?

I may order some sodium and potassium metal from them. It's always fun to play around with those (as well as quite useful).

chemrox - 14-8-2009 at 08:52

Daigger is an old and reputable firm that has been a lot more flexible than some of the others over the years. I have traded with them in the past. I found them easy to work with even before I had company credentials.

Rich_Insane - 14-8-2009 at 11:54

That's good news to me, but due to my age, I can't pay by credit card..... Will they accept Paypal based transfers?

wymanthescienceman - 14-8-2009 at 12:20

Well the shipping for my order was just under $30 for everything after the HAZMAT, but I got 2 500ml bottles of EtAc and 1 of DCM , as well as the 2.5L jug of HNO3, among various other things. My order was just under $50 before shipping.

Yeah the shipping seems high but when you can't get certain things anywhere else at good prices like these, the shipping doesn't really matter anymore. I mean 2.5L ACS Grade HNO3 for under $20? Seems good to me since I have no local suppliers. The DCM was Reagent Grade, 500ml for just over $4.

I don't believe they take Paypal, so you're out of luck there. I saw only credit cards as accepted payments, but I did not check everywhere on the site for other payment options. Also I don't think they carry K metal, although they do carry Na, and at <$10 per 100g! I don't need any Na anymore since I have a lot of it, but that is a really good price for small quantities.

[Edited on 8-14-2009 by wymanthescienceman]

crazyboy - 23-9-2009 at 06:10

Well I placed an order with Daigger, some standard chemicals 2.5L nitric acid, 1L chloroform, 1L DCM and 500g of anhydrous AlCl3. They all said "in stock" or "ships within 17 days" That was 15 days ago and today I get an email saying

"I have had to cancel your order (Daigger Confirmation # ********) as all
of the chemicals on this order have been discontinued. I do apologize
for any inconvenience that this may cause."

INCONVENIENCE?!?! :mad:

How long does it take to check whether or not something is discontinued or not and i fit was why was it still on the website???

watson.fawkes - 23-9-2009 at 09:59

Quote: Originally posted by crazyboy  
Well I placed an order with Daigger, some standard chemicals 2.5L nitric acid, 1L chloroform, 1L DCM and 500g of anhydrous AlCl3. They all said "in stock" or "ships within 17 days" That was 15 days ago and today I get an email saying

"I have had to cancel your order (Daigger Confirmation # ********) as all of the chemicals on this order have been discontinued."
I found this curious enough to look into. The reagent grade chloroform is discontinued, though not the lab grade. The 2.5 L nitric acid is still stocked, though no longer in 4-packs. The aluminum chloride is no longer stocked. But the DCM still is. So their email is at least partly right, and the error may have been laziness.

There's a lot of stuff on that site that says "ships in 17 days". Well, that means that they buy it after you order (and pay, usually) for it. It's clearly one of the reasons their prices are so low, because their inventory cost and risk are much lower than a company that stocked it all themselves.

Given the recent cancellation of so many chemicals, combined with their inventory practice, leads me to surmise that Daigger recently lost a relationship with one of its main reagent suppliers.

Rich_Insane - 3-10-2009 at 18:31

Hey, I got an idea.

What if I pay any one of you with a credit card via Paypal so somehow I could get whatever I need shipped here? Is there a way for one to redirect shipping to another address?

Is this a reasonable idea?

crazyboy - 3-10-2009 at 18:49

Quote: Originally posted by Rich_Insane  
Hey, I got an idea.

What if I pay any one of you with a credit card via Paypal so somehow I could get whatever I need shipped here? Is there a way for one to redirect shipping to another address?

Is this a reasonable idea?


1. If you're too young for a credit card get your parents to do it for you, if they won't you have no business ordering from them.

2. Why would anyone go through that hassle when you could just get the chemical somewhere else.

3. As my post revealed which was confirmed by watson and another member Swede Daigger is pretty much out of everything.

Rich_Insane - 3-10-2009 at 19:06

1. I was just going to order some HNO3 or some DCM. I was going to go ahead and make some HNO3, but I decided that assembling a distillation system out of my Ahlinn condenser and some improvised joint would not only be a lot of work, but also dangerous. I was going to make CHCl3 (I like DCM a bit better) anyways with Acetone and Calcium hypochlorite. It's not like not ordering from Daigger would do any good. It's just that it would take longer (I don't really like the improvised chloroform method anyways, all the methods I've seen need massive amounts of ice, acetone, and calcium hypochlorite).

2. Those pyro supply stores don't sell a lot of the good stuff I need, or they don't sell at good prices (e.g Acids, most reagents, solvents).

3. According to the website, a lot of stuff that still applies to me is still in stock....... I think they even added MORE chemicals on the list.

crazyboy - 3-10-2009 at 19:44

You didn't address my first point regarding your parents consent and your age. I wasn't referring to pyro supply stores, there are other places that sell lab chemicals you just need to look for them. Yes there website says they have stuff in stock but they did when I ordered as well, I am pretty pissed of at Daigger, they won't be my first choice of I can help it.

Magpie - 4-10-2009 at 06:53

I had a very good experience with Daigger. But that was a few months back. My impression at the time was that they were having a fire sale.

My thanks to Rich_Insane.

[Edited on 4-10-2009 by Magpie]

Swede - 4-10-2009 at 17:44

They did not ship my lead nitrate and HNO3. It's a shame, but I don't think I will be doing further business with them.