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thesmug
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Stocking a home lab
I have a small home lab set up to augment my chemistry learning (my school only teaches chemistry once every two years) and was wondering which
chemicals to buy to stock said lab. I already have some NaOH, copper sulfate, ammonia, acetone and ethanol. I am not really ready for any
really strong chemicals yet, especially ones that give off dangerous fumes. If you would also be able to also recommend quantities of each
chemical, that would be much appreciated.
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alexleyenda
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You may not be ready for really strong chemicals yet, yet NaOH is one of the most powerful chemicals that exists :p. It attacks even usually inert
things such as glass and platinium (when molten). Be careful with it. At least it is not toxic, just extremely corrosive.
Must have reagents:
You lack hydrogen peroxide in medium quantity, maybe 250-500 mL of 30%. 30% is quite dangerous however, it is a powerful oxydising agent, as you start
I would advise 10-15%. You can concentrate 3% H2O2 by boiling it down.
You will need a lot of sulfuric acid, the magic acid in my opinion! H2SO4 is weak when diluted, very strong when concentrated, extremely dangerous
when concentrated and mixed with peroxide or when concentrated and heated. It gives no fumes (except when concentrated and heated but you should just
not do that :p ) it also deprotonates in almost not reactive HSO4- or SO4 2- ions compared with other acids like HCl that gives Cl- ions. It is in my
opinion the most important reagent as it can be used in so many situations. I would say get 500 mL concentrated (92-98%) and 3L diluted ( around 35%).
It is still quite strong at 35%, when I said weak, it was relative, don't be misleaded. You can dilute it even more.
You will need large amounts of sodium bicarbonate and vinegar. Sodium bicarbonate being a weak base, it is the thing you'll use to neutralise acids
when you spill them or just want to neutralize a solution and when you need to use a base that does not need to be strong. It can also make some salts
and generate CO2. You'll need vinegar for the opposite reason ; neutralise bases as it is a weak acid and use it as an acid when power is not needed,
though for that last one dilute H2SO4 is better, especially if you look for purity. I would say get at least 1 Kg NaHCO3 and 4 L vinegar.
Finally, distilled water. Tap water is incredibly impure, while making my own distilled water out of it, a surprisingly large amount of cristals began
forming in the tap water after only 1/4 of the water had been boiled down. Get a good 5 L or more of distilled water. Whenever you need to add water
or give a final rinse to your glassware, you'll need it.
Not must have reagents to begin with, but very useful:
Bleach is an useful reagent and oxidiser. (Chlorine bleach, NaOCl)
HCl is very useful too, chlorine is part of many compounds and HCl is the best way to add chlorine atoms to something. However, as you probably know,
HCl is in fact HCl gas dissolved in water so of course it tends to give off quite bad fumes. However, I've worked a lot with it without much problem.
The fumes are very suffocating, as soon as you start to breath some, you don't even have the time to take half of your breath, you feel it immediately
and cough and get away. As long as you work with it outside/fumehood or inside with very diluted solutions, you should be fine as you just won't be
able to breath the fumes of concentrated HCl (25% to 40%) completely and half a breath is not that bad, it happened to me quite many times. 1L 27%
You should also get some magnesium, it is always nice to burn it (don't look at it while it burns, it damages your eyes) but it is also a very good
reducer. Maybe just a 50-100g ribbon coil.
Zinc is also a very useful metal to have, around 100-200g to start with is enough. Once again, a very good reducer.
Some small quantities of copper can be nice to have, in general it is not much used, but personally I worked quite a lot with it to make my own copper
sulfate, for electroplating experiments...
List of some other things I have that can be interesting that I have on my mind ; Take note that some are quite dangerous, I just write them to
inspire you.
KMnO4, KOH, KClO3, NaHSO3, Iodine cristals, sodium acetate, pure oxygen, glycerine, MnO2, Bismuth, mineral oil, aluminium powder, Lithium metal, iron
oxide, Boric acid, trichloroisocyanuric acid, methylene blue, bromothymol blue, phenolphtalein, vitamin C, KCl, sugar.
Whatever you do, forget nitric acid, NOx gas is extremely toxic, it can kill you very fast. You'll need a lot of experience before using that :p Never
mix two chemicals together if you don't know what the product will be, some mix as the peroxide/ sulfuric acid are very dangerous while other bad
mixes can create toxic gas such as chlorine and chloramine. Nitrile/Neoprene gloves and eye protections are a must.
I wrote a lot but I guess it is better than not enough :p Have fun and be safe.
Edit: By the way, I'm a fan of medium scale (50-500 mL), I rarely use my test tubes for other things than very dangerous or very dirty reactions. For
that reason, some people may finds some quantities I gave a bit high, but that's me.
[Edited on 1-2-2014 by alexleyenda]
[Edited on 1-2-2014 by alexleyenda]
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Hoffnung
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You can do a lot of very nice and safe experiments with copper sulfate. Try making copper carbonate by mixing dissolved copper sulfate with the
stoichiometrical quantity of sodium bicarbonate. Then you can heat the pale-blue copper carbonate solution to get the black copper oxide precipitate,
then you can filter and let it dry.
You can also make the beautiful dark-blue copper acetate. Just filter the copper carbonate and mix it with vinegar (very diluted acetic acid, look at
the reaction, the concentration on the bottle and calculate). Then heat the solution until dryness (the acetic acid fumes will be not really toxic but
they can be annoying, do it in a well-ventilated area).
And there are many more copper compounds, you can get all the practical information in this forum, but you should look for the compounds alexleyenda
points above, they are easy to get. Have a nice time.
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by alexleyenda  | You may not be ready for really strong chemicals yet, yet NaOH is one of the most powerful chemicals that exists :p. It attacks even usually inert
things such as glass and platinium (when molten). Be careful with it. At least it is not toxic, just extremely corrosive.
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Yep, that's right, go put the frighteners on a chemical that even housewives sometimes use!
Of course it's highly corrosive but who other than an idiot would try and melt it in glass, for instance? Plenty of stuff isn't really affected by it
or hardly at all.
For NaOH only elementary precautions are needed. Stop using highly subjective and emotive terms like 'powerful': in a chemistry context that word
means very little.
| Quote: Originally posted by alexleyenda | Whatever you do, forget nitric acid, NOx gas is extremely toxic, it can kill you very fast. You'll need a lot of experience before using that :p
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More nonsense from our resident scaremonger. Nitric acid is a very useful, precious chemical that many here couldn't do without. Few of the less
electropositive elements could be dissolved without it, for instance. NO<sub>2</sub> is very toxic but can be handled easily and safely in
small amounts and scrubbed out in larger amounts.
For home experimentation it will usually suffice to limit quantities used, use fairly dilute acid (35 % e.g.), work outside and be upwind from any
emissions. Small amounts of NO<sub>2</sub> won't kill you either, otherwise undersigned wouldn't be here to write about it.
[Edited on 1-2-2014 by blogfast25]
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hyfalcon
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Copper carbonate solution? Mine has always fallen out of solution.
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blogfast25
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Copper carbonate (in its various guises) is insoluble. There are no 'copper carbonate solutions': if you've dissolved it, you've destroyed it. 
[Edited on 1-2-2014 by blogfast25]
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Hoffnung
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HAHA sorry it's my English. I expressed myself badly. "Then you can heat the pale-blue copper carbonate solution to get the black copper oxide
precipitate". I meant heat the solution(!!!), maybe I should have said "you can heat the solution that contains the copper carbonate in it (is it
clearer?), to give the copper oxide (another precipitate)". In fact, you can also filter the copper carbonate and heat it directly but it is a dirtier
way.
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neptunium
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one day sooner or later if you continue to experiment and your interest grows in the science of the atoms and molecules, then you WILL have to deal
with dangerous chemicals .
as long as you
do your research
wear the safety gear
and always small amount
then you should be safe (for the most part)
there will be accident and clumsy mistake but i would not let the potential danger turn me away from
the wonders of physics and chemistry the rewards vastly overcome the danger , the sooner you become acquinted to them the better in my opinion
[Edited on 1-2-2014 by neptunium]
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Zyklon-A
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| Quote: |
You can concentrate 3% H2O2 by boiling it down. |
Don't do this, concentrate it by carefully heating it, not boiling for much better yields.
Sulfuric acid is quite useful, you just have to wear gloves (always wear gloves), nitric acid isn't a must, but it's also very useful.
Getting the right glassware is a must, and you might consider doing that before you blow you chemistry budget on chemicals- a mistake that I made.
Edit:
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It is still quite strong at 35%, when I said weak, it was relative, don't be misleaded. You can dilute it even more. |
Also don't be "misleaded" (misled) by that word at all, (strong), it's the wrong word to use period, it refers to the ionization of the acid, not the
corrosiveness by any means.
A strong acid, is an acid that ionizes completely or almost completely, like HCl(aq), HI(aq), HBr(aq), H2SO4, HNO3,
HClO4, ect.
HF(aq) is a weak acid, but it is extremely corrosive.
[Edited on 1-2-2014 by Zyklonb]
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thesmug
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Thank you all for responding, it has helped a lot. I do still have a few questions, though. alexleyenda, where do you suggest I should buy the
reagents you reccomended? I currently buy most of my chemicals from a company called Home Science Tools, but they only sell chemicals in relatively
small quantities.
And neptunium, although I would be fine working with more dangerous chemicals, the major problem that I have is with ventillation. I work inside, and
since it is very cold where I live, working outside during the winter isn't something I really want to do. What do you suggest to work around this
problem?
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Zyklon-A
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I know you were not asking me, but Elemental scientific, is a great source for chemicals and equipment, for the right price.
[Edited on 1-2-2014 by Zyklonb]
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thesmug
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I will definitely try them.
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neptunium
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| Quote: Originally posted by thesmug |
And neptunium, although I would be fine working with more dangerous chemicals, the major problem that I have is with ventillation. I work inside, and
since it is very cold where I live, working outside during the winter isn't something I really want to do. What do you suggest to work around this
problem? |
i have a basement where i live and a crude fume hood.
if not how about a garage?
a fume hood can be homemade and the fume can be sucked out. its not often i deal with heavy fumes though this shouldnt be much of a concern you know.
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woelen
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I have written some information on setting up a home lab:
http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/misc/homelab.html
You need some basic equipment, and some chemicals. What types of chemicals you need depends on what kind of experiments you intend to do. When you
have read the webpages, linked above, then you probably have a somewhat better idea of what you want and what you need.
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thesmug
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | | Quote: Originally posted by thesmug |
And neptunium, although I would be fine working with more dangerous chemicals, the major problem that I have is with ventillation. I work inside, and
since it is very cold where I live, working outside during the winter isn't something I really want to do. What do you suggest to work around this
problem? |
i have a basement where i live and a crude fume hood.
if not how about a garage?
a fume hood can be homemade and the fume can be sucked out. its not often i deal with heavy fumes though this shouldnt be much of a concern you know.
|
I also work in the basement and have been considering making a fume hood, but working in the garage is not favorable, as it is really cold outside
where I live.
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neptunium
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well then! h
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Zyklon-A
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Make a fume hood: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=11...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14233
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=21....
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thesmug
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Thank you for those links, they're very helpful.
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Zyklon-A
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No problem, I haven't built one yet because I work in my garage, (its not too cold outside) and I just go outside to do an experiment that produces
smoke or toxic fumes. A hood would be nice though, its just not going to be worth it when I can go outside.
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alexleyenda
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@ blogfast For NaOH, I meant that even NaOH is a strong reagent, so if he feels ready for it, he is ready for "strong chemicals" as he said. Never in
the world did I say stay away from it. I admit it was not clear though.
About NOx, yes nitric acid is very useful but I read quite a lot about NOx gas and yes you can deal with it, but if it goes wrong for whatever reason
you are in big danger and I would consider irresponsible not to warn someone who is just starting in chemistry against it. It is extremely destructive
for the organism and the symptoms can take a while before you feel them. I found two sentences that says clearly why I fear NOx "there may be little
pain or shortness of breath, and a seriously damaging dose can be delivered to the lungs while a worker is not immediately aware of the danger. There
is a latent period of from 3 to 30 hours from the time of initial exposure to the onset of potentially fatal pulmonary symptom". source: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pdfs/79-116-e.pdf
@Zyklonb, I recommend boiling the peroxide down because I did the test and found that very little decomposition occured so that is was not worth the
struggle using other longuer evaporation techniques. I should test it again however to make sure I did no mistake as so many people on this forum tend
to think it really decomposes a lot but I doubt I screwed something.
You are right about the use of strong and weak, I should speak of more or less corrosive. My first language being french, my vocabulary is often
limited and I tend to use simple words when I express myself such as "beautiful/ugly big/small weak/strong" :p I know it can cause confusion. By the
way, a random counter-intuitive interesting fact about acids dissociation in case you or thesmug didn't know, weak acids such as CH3COOH react more
strongly when diluted in water than when pure because when diluted in water, the acid dissociates more, so more ions are able to react at the same
time.
@ thesmug Some easy sources of OTC chemicals, their purity is not guaranteed but most of the time they are fine as long as they do not say they are
mixed with other things:
Hydrogen peroxide 3-6% in pharmacy in the first aid section or the hair coloring section. It will contain stabilising agents such as H3PO4 to prevent
too much decomposition, that is normal.
NaOH : hardware stores. Sold as drain cleaner, but often mixed with other things. I managed to find pure NaOH cristals at Home Hardware as a cleaning
agent.
Sulfuric acid: Sold for car batteries in car pieces shops, usually something like 30$ for 20 L with a 35% concentration. You can find concentrated (
around 96%) as drain cleaner in hardware stores in 1L bottles. Some brands color it and sell it a bit contaminated (In my area for exemple) while
other brands sell it quite pure (according to some people on this forum).
Sodium bicarbonate in groceries made by arm and hammer.
Distilled water in pharmacies.
HCl in hardware stores. Where I live they sell 27% bottles with the "things that removes paint and stains" (décapant in french). I also saw 15% HCl
to lower the PH in pools in a pool store.
There are also many other useful chemicals that can be found in pool stores, pharmacies and hardware stores, take the time to take a good look in
these stores near where you live to see what they have. Ebay/Amazon are great sources of affordable chemicals you can't find anywhere else and for
metals like magnesium and zinc.
Of course the better would be to use lab grade chemicals from chemical suppliers, but the prices are fairly high so as long as absolute purity is not
important, go for OTC chemicals. However there are many chemicals that you'll only find there. I cannot really give you advices about chemicals
suppliers as there is only one near my town that deals with individuals and all the others are so far it would cost me double the price in shipping so
I can't compare them.
Finaly, a special warning about HST (I dealt with them too) : If you buy glassware from them, go for pyrex, don't choose their homemade brand. It is
cheap chinese bubbled glass, it works for casual uses but it won't survive falling on the ground and thermal shocks. Also, never buy their organic
chemistry glassware. Their joints are 24/29, a random almost impossible to find joint size. If you buy o-chem glassware, go for usual joints such as
24/40 or 19/22.
[Edited on 2-2-2014 by alexleyenda]
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thesmug
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@alexleyenda, thanks for the advice. I already knew that you could get H2SO4 for car batteries, but I wasn't sure about purity. I live in Chicago, so
buying chemicals OTC should be pretty easy to find.
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thesmug
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| Quote: Originally posted by alexleyenda | Finaly, a special warning about HST (I dealt with them too) : If you buy glassware from them, go for pyrex, don't choose their homemade brand. It is
cheap chinese bubbled glass, it works for casual uses but it won't survive falling on the ground and thermal shocks. Also, never buy their organic
chemistry glassware. Their joints are 24/29, a random almost impossible to find joint size. If you buy o-chem glassware, go for usual joints such as
24/40 or 19/22.
[Edited on 2-2-2014 by alexleyenda] |
I forgot to ask when I posted before, I have a (somewhat large) glassware kit from HST that I got for Christmas, but it is all the homesciencetools
brand. Do you think that it would be ok to continue using the same glassware, or should I replace it?
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alexleyenda
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| Quote: Originally posted by thesmug | | @alexleyenda, thanks for the advice. I already knew that you could get H2SO4 for car batteries, but I wasn't sure about purity. I live in Chicago, so
buying chemicals OTC should be pretty easy to find. |
I did not test the purity, however, the acid is very clear, I titrated it and got something around 35,1 %, and I concentrated it to 96% and it is
still very clear. I also used over 5 L atm and have never seen anything not normal during reactions. For these reasons, I guess it is pure or almost
pure. It makes sense as you don't want impurities to cause failure of a battery.
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Zyklon-A
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| Quote: |
I forgot to ask when I posted before, I have a (somewhat large) glassware kit from HST that I got for Christmas, but it is all the homesciencetools
brand. Do you think that it would be ok to continue using the same glassware, or should I replace it? |
It such be fine, unless it's heat resistant, don't use it for high temperature reactions, but for everything else it should be fine.
[Edited on 2-2-2014 by Zyklonb]
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thesmug
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| Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb |
| Quote: |
I forgot to ask when I posted before, I have a (somewhat large) glassware kit from HST that I got for Christmas, but it is all the homesciencetools
brand. Do you think that it would be ok to continue using the same glassware, or should I replace it? |
It such be fine, unless it's heat resistant, don't use it for high temperature reactions, but for everything else it should be fine.
[Edited on 2-2-2014 by Zyklonb] |
How high temperature? For reactions hotter than 100c I stick to porcelain and steel containers.
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