itsallgoodjames
Hazard to Others
Posts: 276
Registered: 31-8-2020
Location: America Lite
Member Is Offline
|
|
Why has my solution of potassium permanganate and copper sulfate turned orange?
A few days ago I made a solution of potassium permanganate and copper sulfate in isopropanol. The aim was to oxidize the isopropanol to acetone. I
had read somewhere that the reaction was catalyzed by sulfate ions. I used copper sulfate. The reaction worked, though with further reading, I don't
think the CuSO4 was necessary. What's weird is over the last few days of sitting, it's turned orange. I have absolutely no clue why this has
happened. Any ideas? As you can probably tell, I'm not very knowledgeable in organic chem.
Thanks in advance for the help
Edit- my only thought is that maybe it's some weird double salt, but that doesn't really explain why it's orange...
 
[Edited on 16-12-2020 by itsallgoodjames]
Nuclear physics is neat. It's a shame it's so regulated...
Now that I think about it, that's probably a good thing. Still annoying though.
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4357
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
That's....weird. you also have a pale-coloured precipitate at the bottom?
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
itsallgoodjames
Hazard to Others
Posts: 276
Registered: 31-8-2020
Location: America Lite
Member Is Offline
|
|
I as a matter of fact do have a pale blue precipitate at the bottom. I just assumed it was undissolved copper sulfate, but it's too light to be that.
Nuclear physics is neat. It's a shame it's so regulated...
Now that I think about it, that's probably a good thing. Still annoying though.
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4357
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Actually, if it's anhydrous, or even the tri/monohydrate, it will be quite pale.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8030
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
I think that yopur permanganate is reduced to MnO2 and that the latter is very finely dispersed in the liquid. This brown/orange color is quite common
with permanganates, reduced to MnO2. You can also observe this in aqueous solution (e.g. add a dilute solution of KMnO4 to a solution of sugar in
dilute NaOH). You get all kinds of intermediate colors (green and bluish tints), but finally you end up with an orange/brown and somewhat turbid
solution of hydrous MnO2.
The pale blue precipitate is either partially dehydrated CuSO4.xH2O (x < 5), or maybe some impure copper(I) compound. Copper(I) is colorless/white
in many of its compounds, albeit not in all of them (it can form brick red anhydrous Cu2O or yellow hydrous CuOH/Cu2O).
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4357
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by woelen  | | The pale blue precipitate is either partially dehydrated CuSO4.xH2O (x < 5), or maybe some impure copper(I) compound. Copper(I) is colorless/white
in many of its compounds, albeit not in all of them (it can form brick red anhydrous Cu2O or yellow hydrous CuOH/Cu2O). |
Copper(I) halides would be white, but it's tough to imagine that an alcohol would reduce a copper(II) salt to copper(I), especially when there's
manganese salts around to reduce.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8030
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
I can imagine that reduction. Once the manganese is used up and all is reduced to MnO2, then there still is a lot of alcohol around. I think that in
this experiment, the initial amount of permanganate was low, given the weakness of the orange color and the absence of a brown precipitate of MnO2.
Under these conditions I do not think that manganese will be reduced all the way to Mn(2+). Maybe a little Mn(3+), but definitely not further. The
Mn(3+), if it forms, will also be brown/orange in solid Mn2O3 and solid Mn3O4.
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4357
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
I'm pretty sure that it's easier to reduce Mn(III) to Mn(II) than to reduce Cu(II) to Cu(I).
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8030
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
This only is true in acidic solutions. E.g. a solution of sugars at high pH is capable of reducing copper(II) to copper(I), in the form of the
brick-red Cu2O or the yellow/orange hydrous CuOH/Cu2O.nH2O. Such a solution, however, does not reduce manganese all the way down to its +2 oxidation
state. It goes to +4, maybe to +3, but not further. So, in this experiment with the isopropanol I can also imagine that a similar thing occurs.
|
|
|
itsallgoodjames
Hazard to Others
Posts: 276
Registered: 31-8-2020
Location: America Lite
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | I think that yopur permanganate is reduced to MnO2 and that the latter is very finely dispersed in the liquid. This brown/orange color is quite common
with permanganates, reduced to MnO2. You can also observe this in aqueous solution (e.g. add a dilute solution of KMnO4 to a solution of sugar in
dilute NaOH). You get all kinds of intermediate colors (green and bluish tints), but finally you end up with an orange/brown and somewhat turbid
solution of hydrous MnO2.
The pale blue precipitate is either partially dehydrated CuSO4.xH2O (x < 5), or maybe some impure copper(I) compound. Copper(I) is colorless/white
in many of its compounds, albeit not in all of them (it can form brick red anhydrous Cu2O or yellow hydrous CuOH/Cu2O). |
Thanks! I'll have to see if the MnO2 settles out on the bottom over the course of the next few days. I wasn't there while the reaction was
happening, as I had to leave right after it began and wasn't present for multiple days. It very well could have done that color thing, but I'm not
sure, as I wasn't there when the reaction was happening.
Nuclear physics is neat. It's a shame it's so regulated...
Now that I think about it, that's probably a good thing. Still annoying though.
|
|
|
RustyShackleford
Hazard to Others
Posts: 200
Registered: 10-12-2020
Location: Northern Europe
Member Is Offline
|
|
suspension of MnO2
|
|
|
Bedlasky
International Hazard
Posts: 1244
Registered: 15-4-2019
Location: Period 5, group 6
Member Is Offline
Mood: Volatile
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | | This only is true in acidic solutions. E.g. a solution of sugars at high pH is capable of reducing copper(II) to copper(I), in the form of the
brick-red Cu2O or the yellow/orange hydrous CuOH/Cu2O.nH2O. Such a solution, however, does not reduce manganese all the way down to its +2 oxidation
state. It goes to +4, maybe to +3, but not further. So, in this experiment with the isopropanol I can also imagine that a similar thing occurs.
|
This isn't necessarily true. If you add excess of glucose or fructose in to alkaline permanganate/manganate/hypomanganate/MnO2/MnO(OH)
solution/suspension, there is a slow formation of colourless Mn(II) complex with glucose/fructose. This complex is stable if excess of sugar is
present. You can see formation of brown ring at the surface, which disappear when you swirl the test tube.
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=32...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Hypomanganate
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
