Hamilton
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Element and compound oriented chemistry book
hi,
As I was reading my old books, I found that it was pretty common, in the old time (1940 -1960) to find chemistry book that deal with common inorganic
chemistry, element by element. Their content table are generally ordered by element and by element group. Sadly, the book I found are old and
information in them are limited and the author are frequently unsure about what they say. For example one of my book is unsure about many mechanism
about ammonium production and general ammonium chemistry.
i found they make very good table top book and quick reference for amateur chemist.
So what I want is to find relatively new chemistry book with the general industrial and laboratory uses of every main compound and of every main
element like in the old day.
do you know any book that deal with particular chemistry , if I can call it this way, and not to much about general chemistry?
**
As a side question, i was trying to find some information on the very simple reaction of MnO and HCl. yesterday, i found a small bag of MnO. i tried
to dissolve it in HCl to see if i can get pink MnCl. the solution turn out green and unappealing. There is was i think is sand mixed to it too.
Sadly, my old book don't deal a lot with Mn and Google was not of any good help. so i don't have any hypothesis about what is in my MnO.
thx
[Edited on 17-3-2010 by Hamilton]
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not_important
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MnO, Mn(II) oxide, is relatively uncommon as it is rather easily oxidised to Mn(III) and Mn(IV). If you manganese oxide is brown to black you have
something of higher oxidation state that Mn(II).
If that is true, getting a greenish solution with HCl (aq) is not unexpected. Simply make sure there is a small excess of HCl and boil the solution
for awhile. The higher oxides of manganese will oxidise the HCl to Cl2, and be reduced to Mn(II); boiling drives off the Cl2 with the steam.
More modern inorganic chem books tend to focus on theory and structural views rather than "the compounds of element XYZ" You'll do better with those
older books, including the expired copyright ones downloadable from the Internet Archives and Google Books.
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woelen
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Yes, I agree with not_important. I have bought quite a few books from antiquariats for just a few euros. They cover elements and their compounds and
the pre-war books even go into high detail about individual compounds, such as many pages about a single compound like K2Cr2O7. With such books you
can find many many interesting reactions, which hardly can be explained by general theory, but which are unique to a specific compound.
Your MnO almost certainly contains Mn2O3 and/or MnO2 and if you add that to HCl, then a brown or dark green solution is obtained. I also have some
"MnO" and this powder also contains quite some iron, leading to intense yellow solutions in HCl, even after boiling such that all manganese is in
oxidation state +2 and all chlorine is driven off.
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DJF90
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Greenwood and Earnshaw's "Chemistry of the Elements" is pretty good, as is Cotton and Wilkinson's "Advanced Inorganic Chemistry (6th Ed.),
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woelen
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I have the first book and indeed it is quite good, but I like the older books even more.
The book "Chemistry of the Elements" covers all elements, but in quite a different way when compared to the older books. It mainly focusses on
coordination chemistry and to my opinion this goes so far that more than 50% of the book covers such weird and uncommon complexes that things become
less interesting from a home-chemist's point of view. The older books cover the properties of many compounds which are accessible to the home chemist.
The new books of around the year 2000 emphasize on compounds which are totally beyond the reach of the home chemist. The reagents involved are so
exotic that only university labs can acquire or synthesize them, the apparatus involved is high-tech and only available in $1000000+ labs, the
handling of the compounds requires the presence of wildly exotic solvents, low- or high temperature inert gas apparatus, etc. Reading about the
existence of such complexes might be a nice read, but if you are more like the type of person who wants to experiment on his own in his home lab then
this may be disappointing.
I teached myself a lot of practical chemistry from the old books. I read many pages about more common compounds like CuSO4, CuCl2, NaBr, KI, K2Cr2O7,
KMnO4, KNO3, KClO3, KClO4, etc. etc. and based on that I gained experience in experimenting and making my own chemicals. Other things in the old books
which I really like are the extensive descriptions of qualitative and sometimes quantitative analysis, using just glassware, ingenious tubing and a
good deal of thinking. These are things which people can try to repeat in their home labs and which are feasible for the more experienced and better
equipped persons.
Of course, the disadvantage of older books sometimes is that the knowledge at that time is less complete than it is nowadays and sometimes these books
contain plain errors. An example is the dark blue peroxo complex which is formed from acidified dichromate and hydrogen peroxide. Many old books
describe this compound as HCrO5, while in reality it is CrO5. Information about less common elements such as Ru, Re, Os and so on is not present at
all in the older books or very vague. It is a pity that newer books do not cover these elements in a way like the older books did on the more common
elements.
[Edited on 18-3-10 by woelen]
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pantone159
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I have both Greenwood and Earnshaw, as well as Cotton and Wilkinson (and earlier edition though.)
I agree that G&E is very oriented towards stuff that is impractical for a hobbyist to do. I like having it on my bookshelf, to make my library
more complete, but I do not actually find it all that useful.
C&W tends to be more practically useful.
I have another inorganic book (I forget the name) which I like the most, the author makes a point of being practically oriented, covering things
important in industrial chemistry, and so on.
I really would like to get some older books, like the ones woelen speaks of, I don't have any at present.
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Hamilton
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i will be searching for C&W.
maybe we could move this discussion to naming good old book that deal with compound specific chemistry.
i have in my possession 2 Canadian book,
New Practical Chemistry by Black and Conant, it is a basic book but contain some very interesting information.
Senior Chemistry, Cornish. deal in a lot more dept general compound.
i don't think i have any big name book, only 2 Canadian book made for their education system. I really don't remember how they got to be in my
possession.
what are your favorite book old (or new) book that fall in this category?
**
I will try boiling my MnO + HCl solution/mud. If there is a lot of iron, i will need to find a way to precipitate them out without removing the Mn
compound.
I also found some Mn sulfate, i test is with NaOH and saw the ivory precipitate, it then turn brown with air and time. This seem to be a good Mn test.
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DJF90
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Yes woelen you are right, there is alot of complex orientated chemistry in Greenwood and Earnshaw, but primarily this is the chemistry of the
transition metals, lanthanides and actinides. If I remember correctly there are "spider diagrams" for the reactions of the p-block elements etc,
although I may be confusing this with another book.
In terms of practical details (how stuff is made), Cotton and Wilkinson is better, but still has sufficient theory to be classed a text book. Then you
have Brauer, which is a practical guide (how stuff is made, with procedures), and is very good in this respect.
Of course "Inorganic Syntheses" is also interesting, at least the first five volumes or so, after that it becomes very complex orientated but should
not be too far beyond the scope of an amatuer supposing they can aquire the materials (metals like Ru, Rh, In, etc. and Ph3P, CN- and other ligands).
[Edited on 19-3-2010 by DJF90]
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Xenoid
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Although not a modern book, if you can find yourself a second-hand copy of Mellor's Modern Inorganic Chemistry you will be well rewarded. I bought my
copy in the mid-'60's and I can literally say I have used it almost every day of my life! The first third of this book is devoted to various aspects
of "theoretical"chemistry" and is a little dated, although everything is dealt with in an interesting way. The rest, over 700 pages, deals with the
elements and their compounds. Get the 1963 edition, rather than anything older, there may be a 1967 edition, I'm not sure.
Mellor's Modern Inorganic Chemistry: Edited by G.D.Parkes, 1961(2nd. Imp. 1963) Longmans, London
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JohnWW
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Any edition of Mellor's Modern Inorganic Chemistry before 1962 would not have anything about the compounds of the inert gases Xe, Kr, and Rn, first
discovered that year.
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Hamilton
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i didn't know about the year of discovery of noble gas compound. Anyway i won't be able to make them ;-).
I am in search of the book you mention Xenoid, i found some second hand edition, nothing cheap, it's around 100$ for one of them.
Sadly can't find any PDF of it using google. maybe i would have more luck in library.
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