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WGTR
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Posts: 971
Registered: 29-9-2013
Location: Online
Member Is Offline
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I'm thinking of getting a permit myself. I work at a company where we are covered by an umbrella-type permit. We have an on-site Fisher rep who does
our ordering for us. Any work-related purchases are no problem.
It becomes complicated when I want to order some extra things on my own. There are some pieces of glassware that may not be immediately work-related
enough to justify ordering through the company, but would greatly help in my own personal studies and experimentation (As an aside, these studies
eventually end up benefiting the company in some way). I have access to a lot of glassware in another building, but I would really like to get my own
that I can use in my own lab.
My situation is ironically more complicated than that of someone doing chemistry in their backyard. In order to submit the paperwork, I have to agree
to have the lab inspected by a law enforcement agent. I can tell you right now, approval for that will never happen, not at any time during this life
nor the one to come. I live in an apartment, and have a storage unit, but neither of those places are suitable for a lab, so I can't just say that
I'll be using the glassware in my apartment or something. I'm an honest person, anyway. Yes, I can just order things from small companies on eBay,
but I would like to do business with the "big boys", like Fisher and Sigma.
I'm undecided right now on how to proceed. There are a few different directions I could go with it. I might just bribe my director (ha ha!) in some
way to get him to approve an order on company overhead. Another option is to make my own glassware. I don't have a glass lathe, but I can handle
some things that don't exactly require one. It would also be a good excuse to upgrade my glassblowing equipment. When the state sees where the
equipment would be going, they might also waive the inspection requirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have talked with the owner of a science store where I live about the permitting process. He said that DPS will send someone out to look
around when the permit is applied for. He didn't make it sound like a big deal, though. Parents who are home schooling will often apply for a
permit, since, well, they want to teach their kids chemistry. Texas is a big home schooling state, and the laws are generally favorable toward it.
Generally, the state wants to make sure that people aren't buying glassware to make drugs. It's difficult to enforce the permitting process, and
really, it's the transfer of the glassware that requires the permit, not the ownership of it. Simply owning it is not illegal. For someone to go
through the trouble of the permitting process implies that they are honest individuals. Generally, I think the process would be a valuable
experience. It would at least require you to get your stuff together and meet some basic inspection requirements.
For what it's worth, I would suggest having your "lab" on a bench in the backyard. Glassware could be stored in a locked shed in the yard. If you
have a lot of chemicals, put them somewhere else off-site and don't mention them. In fact, don't volunteer anything that you aren't specifically
asked. I suggested having the lab in the yard, to minimize the need for the officer to look around inside your house. It likely wouldn't be a
problem for you, but it's generally a bad idea to invite an officer to look around inside your house.
Document some basic experiments that you'd like to try with whatever glassware you want to get. Keep them simple. This should be sufficient to
justify your purchase. Don't try to impress the officer with your knowledge about chemistry, or possible illicit uses for the glassware, unless you
like jumping into warm cow patties. Be innocent and humble, and that will go a long way towards streamlining the process.
That's my 2 cents worth.
[Edited on 4-5-2015 by WGTR]
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Cou
National Hazard
Posts: 958
Registered: 16-5-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad Scientist
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Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  | I think Cou is just happy to be dramatic.
You're most likely a 43 year old living in your parents attic.
No offense bro but enough is enough. I thought you would be too busy, what with life long Gamma scans to attend university anyway. Enough!
Bigotry, chemophopia, cancer scares, fumed to death by metal vapors, dis-respect for law enforcement, dis-respect for teaching institutions /
teachers, disrespect for class-mates, ect...
I'm starting to think you are not who or what you claim to be.
Maybe a chat room is better suited to your banter.
I have NO RIGHT to direct anyone in any direction. Especially here at S.M. BUT~~~ reading dozens of posts attempting to help you, it appears you do
not want or desire help.
You want DRAMA.
Are you really the "resident troll" guy? Did you figure out how to use a stationary proxy?
My 28yo daughter calls me "The Child Abuse Super Hero". She does this because I Love to help kids, and have no fear of adults. In my experience (28
years) kids always respond positively. They say "Thanks" for the advice. They say "Someday I will return the kindness".
You always say NOTHING. You just move along to the next dramatic issue.
Me personally... done!
Sorry to all the members for ranting at a "kid".
Cou, If you are a kid, I owe you an apology. I hope you change your life for the better.
If you're not a kid... I hope your life changes for the better.
.If you have lived 40 some years (as I suspect) it's sad. |
I have been anticipating this reaction from one of the sciencemadness members for quite a while.
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Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline
Mood: I just don't know...
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Took a little minute didn't it?
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Cou
National Hazard
Posts: 958
Registered: 16-5-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad Scientist
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The reason I have been complaining so much, and not discussing actual chemistry or reporting experiment results, is because Texas does not let me. The
Man imposes liability on the schools, preventing me from doing my own experiments, and the School Men do not appreciate (high school) students who are
genuinely interested in any academic subject beyond simply wanting a good grade. As soon as I can obtain glassware, or build a poor man's ghetto lab
setup from home depot tubes and pipes, I can start participating in this forum. I can start researching higher salicylates. BUt until then, don't
blame me, blame all the dumb cowboys here.
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j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6326
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
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Zombie has a point. You don't present well. And your posts tend to lack somewhat in perspective. You really would do well to heed the helpful posts
that others have kindly provided and also acknowledge the same.
There are usually multiple solutions to the problems you pose. Listening gives you access to more of them.
As for conjectures about your age and motives, I don't share zombie's conclusion but I do see how he might have reached it.
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WGTR
National Hazard
Posts: 971
Registered: 29-9-2013
Location: Online
Member Is Offline
Mood: Outline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cou | | The reason I have been complaining so much, and not discussing actual chemistry or reporting experiment results, is because Texas does not let me. The
Man imposes liability on the schools, preventing me from doing my own experiments, and the School Men do not appreciate (high school) students who are
genuinely interested in any academic subject beyond simply wanting a good grade |
If you injured yourself doing some experiment at school, wouldn't your parents be the first in line to file a lawsuit? If not, then they have my
respect. The liability issue is not Texas, it's everywhere. It's a fact of life that children are seen as poor vulnerable waifs, needing insulation
in bubble wrap to protect them from the common scrapes of life. This is less of a problem as you get older. As a non-degreed, not-so-young-anymore
guy, I have seen that trust is something that's earned over time. Even people fresh out of college don't get turned loose in a lab by themselves.
They normally work with a more-experienced mentor for a while, until people are satisfied that they won't cause a mess.
A person that I work with, much older and wiser than I, says that doing synthetic organic (as opposed to inorganic) chemistry is generally unsafe
unless one is experienced. There are a lot of things that can work quietly 99 times, but go very, very, wrong the 100th time. Perhaps he's being
overly cautious, but he goes on to say that it's better to work with someone experienced in a given procedure who can look over one's shoulder. This
helps make sure that one doesn't accidentally do something really dumb.
As for the lack of understanding, 99.999% of the cattle mooing through the halls of your school are probably there to just get a grade, hopefully get
into a good college, find a good job, and then make tons of money. From there, they can have lots of pretty children, and all live in little boxes
made of ticky-tacky, and...never mind. Your teachers may not know what to do with you, since you don't fit the mold. I had this problem,
and I think several people here have as well. Life stinks sometimes.
Perhaps you'd be the most charming and engaging (self-described) Asian guy in person, but here it sounds like you have a general dislike of being told
what you can and can't do. In other words, a dislike of authority. That is a big red flag in a lab setting, and it breeds distrust. Here in the US,
we would rather die than be told what to do. Having a "good name" among our peers is quite important though. It helps get recommendations to good
colleges. It helps create networks of friends within those colleges, which translate to good job opportunities after college. It allows one to
become an authority in a particular field, and advance through the ranks. This can't happen unless the dues are paid in full. The persecution
complex is a mental "cancer" that needs to be carved out before it metastasizes. It can definitely hold you back.
Anyway, here is a useful website that sells bits of scientific glassware. One can buy various ground glass joints, tubing, etc, and all of these
things can, with considerable practice, be joined with a common propane torch. The Chinese branded joints are the cheapest.
http://www.mountainglass.com/Products/BOROSILICATE-GLASS-33-...
All of the experiments that I have done thus far have been with bent pieces of glass tubing, or stuff fused together with a Home Depot propane torch.
Even rubber stoppers can be used as joints between tubes. A copper tube with rubber stoppers in either end, and a glass tube pushed through the
middle, becomes a reflux condenser. Anyway, have fun.
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IrC
International Hazard
Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline
Mood: Discovering
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"BUt until then, don't blame me, blame all the dumb cowboys"
Will you stop with the stereotyping crap. What data can you provide as proof they are dumb. I would rather have Texas cowboys for neighbors any day
over limp wrist-ed liberal whining cappuccino drinkers.
Whenever I hear this I think of my favorite Traffic song from 1971 'Low Spark Of High Heeled Boys'. High Heeled Boys = men wearing cowboy boots. For
many years people would say he meant stupid by 'Low Spark'. Ironically it had nothing to do with that, the writer (Winwood) was thinking 'rebel
spirit' referencing his friend Michael J. Pollard. Thanks to Wikipedia you can learn the true history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Low_Spark_of_High_Heeled_Bo...
Since it is such a great song I'll give a link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8M8R835Ck4
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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Cou
National Hazard
Posts: 958
Registered: 16-5-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad Scientist
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| Quote: Originally posted by WGTR | | Quote: Originally posted by Cou | | The reason I have been complaining so much, and not discussing actual chemistry or reporting experiment results, is because Texas does not let me. The
Man imposes liability on the schools, preventing me from doing my own experiments, and the School Men do not appreciate (high school) students who are
genuinely interested in any academic subject beyond simply wanting a good grade |
If you injured yourself doing some experiment at school, wouldn't your parents be the first in line to file a lawsuit? If not, then they have my
respect. The liability issue is not Texas, it's everywhere. It's a fact of life that children are seen as poor vulnerable waifs, needing insulation
in bubble wrap to protect them from the common scrapes of life. This is less of a problem as you get older. As a non-degreed, not-so-young-anymore
guy, I have seen that trust is something that's earned over time. Even people fresh out of college don't get turned loose in a lab by themselves.
They normally work with a more-experienced mentor for a while, until people are satisfied that they won't cause a mess.
A person that I work with, much older and wiser than I, says that doing synthetic organic (as opposed to inorganic) chemistry is generally unsafe
unless one is experienced. There are a lot of things that can work quietly 99 times, but go very, very, wrong the 100th time. Perhaps he's being
overly cautious, but he goes on to say that it's better to work with someone experienced in a given procedure who can look over one's shoulder. This
helps make sure that one doesn't accidentally do something really dumb.
As for the lack of understanding, 99.999% of the cattle mooing through the halls of your school are probably there to just get a grade, hopefully get
into a good college, find a good job, and then make tons of money. From there, they can have lots of pretty children, and all live in little boxes
made of ticky-tacky, and...never mind. Your teachers may not know what to do with you, since you don't fit the mold. I had this problem,
and I think several people here have as well. Life stinks sometimes.
Perhaps you'd be the most charming and engaging (self-described) Asian guy in person, but here it sounds like you have a general dislike of being told
what you can and can't do. In other words, a dislike of authority. That is a big red flag in a lab setting, and it breeds distrust. Here in the US,
we would rather die than be told what to do. Having a "good name" among our peers is quite important though. It helps get recommendations to good
colleges. It helps create networks of friends within those colleges, which translate to good job opportunities after college. It allows one to
become an authority in a particular field, and advance through the ranks. This can't happen unless the dues are paid in full. The persecution
complex is a mental "cancer" that needs to be carved out before it metastasizes. It can definitely hold you back.
Anyway, here is a useful website that sells bits of scientific glassware. One can buy various ground glass joints, tubing, etc, and all of these
things can, with considerable practice, be joined with a common propane torch. The Chinese branded joints are the cheapest.
http://www.mountainglass.com/Products/BOROSILICATE-GLASS-33-...
All of the experiments that I have done thus far have been with bent pieces of glass tubing, or stuff fused together with a Home Depot propane torch.
Even rubber stoppers can be used as joints between tubes. A copper tube with rubber stoppers in either end, and a glass tube pushed through the
middle, becomes a reflux condenser. Anyway, have fun. |
Exactly, on the "teachers don't know what to do with
you" point. The fact that the teachers in my school have NEVER seen a student with actual interest in chemistry, is why the school doesn't even have
a list of rules for the chemistry lab pertaining to that. They've simply never seen a student like me before,who makes all 100s on every test quiz
and lab, aand finds the in class labs too boring. And so there is no need for a list of rules that says "Students may not borrow glassware from the
stockroom. Students are only permitted to perform labs that are part of the class, self experimentation is strictly prohibited due to liability."
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Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4587
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
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Not even going to try any more.
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Mailinmypocket
International Hazard
Posts: 1351
Registered: 12-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Cou Im starting to wonder if you are a troll of sorts, taking advantage on the supportive and helpful SM community. Forever saying just enough to get
detailed and lengthy responses but it never seems like the information given to you soaks in.
There is a thread on what people would do to be able to order from Sigma, then a thread about how to buy from them but also saying you never would buy
from them. Threads about you quitting the hobby, now a thread about you (or your parents, whatever) getting a glassware permit. Really?
Decide what you want from sciencemadness and chemistry. As some say, "sh*t or get off the pot"
Note to self: Tare the damned flask.
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IrC
International Hazard
Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline
Mood: Discovering
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"self experimentation is strictly prohibited due to liability."
From this can we assume those 'dumb cowboys' (as you say Cou) are not so 'dumb' after all? What sane person would happily hand their hard earned money
to others due to the actions of non thinking k3wls?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
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Try to be a little kinder to Cou.
Between the lines i read that there is something here that gives Cou comfort, indicating that where he/she is at needs some of that.
Give it a little time : Cou may well turn out to be a long-term member and a nett contributor.
Nothing Cou has said is offensive or derisory, so it could be a whole lot worse.
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Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4587
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
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Err, excecpt for the
occasional somewhat racist comment or blatantly rude rant, sure... nothing offensive.
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aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
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People are generally 'racist'.
Modern weirdness seems to somehow try to deny a gut instinct.
Fact is that we're hard-wired to recognise our own gene-brand, so all the political correct-ness in the world changes nothing, just pushes it
underground for a while.
Test this : if you're white (jewish preferably for this experiment) walk into a Mosque and ask if Mohammed actually existed.
Warning: this experiment must only be done in a Fume Hood, and with adequate safety precautions.
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Cou
National Hazard
Posts: 958
Registered: 16-5-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad Scientist
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I no longer need to complain on this forum so much. I finally found some very nice chemistry teachers at my school who are willing to sponsor an
organic chemistry club; they were very nice about it! No suspicion (we even laughed about how breaking bad ruined the image of chemistry), they
thought it was a good idea, I could even buy the reagents myself. They said liability isn't an issue. I can finally start experimenting on higher
salicylates and reporting my results here. But probably not till the beginning of the next school year.
[Edited on 6-4-2015 by Cou]
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aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
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Woohoo !
Told you it'd all come right in the end.
Just needed some time.
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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Way to go Cou!
[Edited on 7-4-2015 by Magpie]
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline
Mood: I just don't know...
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Guys... There was no school today due to EASTER!!!
I'm going to the Mosque now to Prove there is no Mohamad. The Easter Bunny has my back, and Santa has a sleigh full of .223's for me.
How much more religious backing can I get? Gods Puppies Forward!!!
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
National Hazard
Posts: 724
Registered: 25-12-2013
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Insufferable
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Nah, some places have it the Friday before.
| Quote: Originally posted by Cou | | They've simply never seen a student like me before,who makes all 100s on every test quiz and lab, |
In high school, it's very very unlikely that they haven't.
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