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Zombie
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The Volatile Chemist / Energetic Materials section I fail to see the attraction
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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The Volatile Chemist
International Hazard
Posts: 1981
Registered: 22-3-2014
Location: 'Stil' in the lab...
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Haha, I actually haven't made anything energetic. Not that I haven't tried... I'm waiting till I own an industrial lab and have excuses 
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Darkstar
Hazard to Others
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Quote: Originally posted by CuReUS  |
piperidine is in the list 1 of DEA,I think that means its illegal to possess of manufacture without permit
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It's not illegal to possess in the US. (assuming that's where you're referring to) It just means its suppliers are tightly regulated and its sale is
closely monitored. Iodine, safrole and benzaldehyde are also examples of List I chemicals. Are these illegal to purchase or possess? No. Are they more
difficult to purchase than most chemicals? Yes.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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They are illegal to manufacture without a permit though.
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CuReUS
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| Quote: Originally posted by turd |
| Quote: | | that is so nice,so could someone please tell me why safrole is converted to isosafrole |
So that oxidation gives you the phenylacetone and not the phenylpropionaldehyde. The smell is also (very) different. |
but wont oxidation of safrole give a ketone,according to markonikoff rule or is marko not applied here at all ?
also,when you isomerise it and then oxidise it,won't it dance over to the benzylic carbon and form propiophenone instead of P2P.(I know it doesn't,but
generally that's what everyone would expect it to do,as then the carbonyl carbon will be in resonance with the benzene ring)
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turd
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Formally: alkene --(oxidation)--> epoxide --(hydrolysis)--> vicinal diol --(elimination)--> enol --(tautomery)--> ketone/aldehyde
--(condensation)--> tar.
Which of the two OHs is more likely to eliminate?
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jhonthebaptist
Daddy, can you cut his head off, just for me? Pretty please, daddy... On a nice platter?
Posts: 16
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Piperidine isn't illegal to posses, as long as its 500 grms or under and you don't have other things like, the bromobenzene, cyclohexanone, Mg, and
such. (I think, not sure though) If it were totally illegal then everyone that has a pepper shaker would be subject to punishment. I have bought it
before 9/11, bought a 1000ml for 80 bucks. But that was a long time ago, and I only used a few mls of it. ended up trading a wood splitter for the
rest of the bottle.
Personally I was just curious about making it from cadaverine. There is a lot of scientific reports that are false, so I was wanting to
verify/discredit the claim. I don't give a crap about what its used for because I like to be able to function and think.
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Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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I've been unable to find any listing of pickardjr in member list. If I had, I could re-connect you with former ID- Assuming you were not banned or
otherwise de-listed for cause.
Did you spell EXACTLY, and did you formerly capitalize or punctuate that?
Like:
Pickard jr.
for instance?
Totally missed whatever you deleted. And have no conception of why you want to "beat around the bush" & see who can figure out your actual
interest...
I have used cadaverine. Part of the ingredients in a product our trainer called "Fred". Now I shall be the mysterious one!
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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Bert, he's here. https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/member.php?action=vie...
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Bert
Super Administrator
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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The same Pickardjr who had this as his first post?
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=24...
If so, U2U me.
[Edited on 1-2-2015 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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smaerd
International Hazard
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Mood: hmm...
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Yeesh the disrespect towards Solo in that thread bugs me a lot... Solo is a really respectable poster who really goes out of his way to share
information with all of us. It wouldn't surprise me if the pickardjr account was banned...
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Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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I did not ban,did not find a ban in profile or moderator logs either.
Woelen let it go as a detritus and a warning, over 18 months back. (Before I was even a moderator!) I will not 2nd guess a senior moderator,
especially on old business.
There was a story my father told about a pioneer, a mail order bride and a mule.
"That's once!".
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
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Mood: I just don't know...
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The Little Bride.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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CuReUS
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turd ,but if the conversion of alkene to ketone was carried out by the wacker oxidation,ketone will form instead of aldehyde even for terminal alkenes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wacker_process#Wacker.E2.80.93T...
I also found that people do the wacker on safrole itself,without isomerising it to iso-safrole.But "pickler" says that during wacker process,safrole
is first converted to iso and then to P2P
http://chemistry.mdma.ch/hiveboard/methods/000332297.html
I think aldehydes will form from terminal alkenes if other reactions are used
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turd
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I was obviously talking about the peracid oxidation (in reply to your answer why one would make isosafrole).
If you go the Wacker route you do not want isosafrole, but safrole. Isomerization is an unwanted side-recation, but this is not relevant with
regard to your question.
I fail to see how all this relates to cadaverine and suggest you open a separate thread if you want to discuss oxidation of allyl-/propenylbenzenes to
phenylpropanones.
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JAVA
Hazard to Self
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Maybe we can make a closed section: only real chemists are permitted to post with a knowledge test?
Cadaverine smells like......blurp.
There are better ways to make piperidine. //
See hyperlink below
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CuReUS
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| Quote: Originally posted by JAVA | | Maybe we can make a closed section: only real chemists are permitted to post with a knowledge test? |
maybe you should learn to read english first.SM is primarily for amateur chemists, not ACS laureates.And why should only some people be given the
power to test others.Its like racism in the scientific community.Some of the best posts here are from home chemists not PhD's 
if you are so keen to write exams,let me U2U a few "questions" .We will all see how much knowledgeable you are
| Quote: | | Cadaverine smells like......blurp |
remind me never to invite you for lunch
| Quote: | There are better ways to make piperidine. //
See hyperlink below |
don't click the link,Its malware 
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Pickardjr
Harmless
Posts: 45
Registered: 27-5-2013
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Mood: vapor state
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Im not really interested in the 101 ways to make piperidine. I wouldn't and didn't click the link in the upper post. I can not figure what the big
deal is about this substance. When I preformed this experiment it was to prove/disprove the literature. The procedure is claimed to work, with a
whopping yield of 1%. Feasibility is 0 % to use it in another reaction, I know this.
I'm aware of all the other ways to skin a cat, Im not interested. Just wanted to see if I could do it from lysine. I found out real quick. project
scrapped. Please don not perpetuate bull-crap.
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Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
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Mood: I just don't know...
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| Quote: Originally posted by CuReUS | | Quote: Originally posted by JAVA | | Maybe we can make a closed section: only real chemists are permitted to post with a knowledge test? |
maybe you should learn to read english first.SM is primarily for amateur chemists, not ACS laureates.And why should only some people be given the
power to test others.Its like racism in the scientific community.Some of the best posts here are from home chemists not PhD's
if you are so keen to write exams,let me U2U a few "questions" .We will all see how much knowledgeable you are
| Quote: | | Cadaverine smells like......blurp |
remind me never to invite you for lunch
| Quote: | There are better ways to make piperidine. //
See hyperlink below |
don't click the link,Its malware |
Figured as much... The link I mean. Perhaps Mr. Java could remove it?
There are few things as frustrating as an infected computer.
Just sayin'
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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The Volatile Chemist
International Hazard
Posts: 1981
Registered: 22-3-2014
Location: 'Stil' in the lab...
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'Dat' malware. This place'd be a good way to distribute it, link to a supposed PDF of Vogel's 5th, and you've got thirty new infected computers
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Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
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Mood: I just don't know...
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It's kind of a shot below the belt, and usually draws the same in return.
Not that anyone would do something like that on purpose...
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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CuReUS
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I have an idea.perhaps you could try it out and tell the yields
first treat lysine with bleach to get 5-aminopentanal(strecker degradation)
then reflux the aminopentanal in HCOOH.the compond should cyclise and then the imime formed should get reduced by hydride donation from HCOOH
I always wondered why HCOOH was used to reduce imimes in one reaction(eschenweiler clark) and Al/Hg+acid was used in other reactions
also can Zn/HCOONH4 be used to reduce the imime instead of HCOOH alone .Maybe Zn catalyses the reaction
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Chemosynthesis
International Hazard
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Bringing back an oldie.
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=27...
I'd been passingly curious how that ever turned out.
| Quote: Originally posted by turd | | Quote: Originally posted by CuReUS | | piperidine is in the list 1 of DEA,I think that means its illegal to possess of manufacture without permit... |
...in some parts of the world, that are irrelevant to many of us (myself included). |
The United Nations Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances ratified by 87 signatories and 189 parties in
Vienna, 20 December 1988 is probably more relevant as a bit of an aside.
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turd
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis | | The United Nations Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances ratified by 87 signatories and 189 parties in
Vienna, 20 December 1988 is probably more relevant as a bit of an aside. |
Pffffft. Couldn't care less. Quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_Agai...
| Quote: | Table II
acetone
anthranilic acid
diethyl ether
hydrochloric acid (hydrogen chloride)
methyl ethyl ketone
piperidine
sulphuric acid
toluene
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With the exception of anthranilic acid I acquired all of the above chemicals in 250 ml+ quantitites - no questions asked. The whole notion of
PCP/angel dust is completely obscure to people around these parts. Are you seriously trying to impress us by the fact that piperidine has the same
legal status as acetone?
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Chemosynthesis
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I didn't ask.
| Quote: | Table II
acetone
anthranilic acid
diethyl ether
hydrochloric acid (hydrogen chloride)
methyl ethyl ketone
piperidine
sulphuric acid
toluene
With the exception of anthranilic acid I acquired all of the above chemicals in 250 ml+ quantitites - no questions asked. |
I don't really care, nor is it relevant to whether it was done legally or not. In that exact same spirit, I'm not going to ask if your reagent list
was supposed to impress me, as that's very achievable in the U.S. as well; however, that doesn't mean it will never have consequence to even an
innocent purchaser.
| Quote: | | The whole notion of PCP/angel dust is completely obscure to people around these parts. Are you seriously trying to impress us by the fact that
piperidine has the same legal status as acetone? |
I'm just pointing out a law. No need to get
reactive over it. If I were trying to impress people, I'd blather on about what I can get with a Form 222 or 225, but I would hope most people
wouldn't pay any mind as that wasn't what I was trying to discuss. If you're not asking rhetorically to make an off-topic point, I am actually not
particularly fond of most U.N. treaties or resolutions, but they are notably more applicable than U.S. law, which is what I stated (in continuation of
the points you and CuReUS made), and members or browsers of the forum should at least be cognizant of this as it does have some impact on chemistry,
as regrettable as that is.
People do post on here about how difficult it is to keep up with various government watch lists, and I doubt anyone considers how the U.N. is
involved in the alphabet soup.
ex. (with acetone!): https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=36...
So unless anyone is still interested in discussing what I noted was an aside to the primary conversation, chemistry, do the two of us have more to
discuss?
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