angeltxilon
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Substitute for gasoline with vegetable oil, turpentine and ethanol?
I didn't know whether to post this question in organic chemistry or in energetic materials. As it is a simple mix, in the end I have decided to
publish it here, which I do not know if it is the most correct. Anyway, I will thank to the moderator that moves this thread to the most appropriate
subforum.
As a substitute for expensive gasoline for certain unserious "experiments", I have thought that a similar octane fuel could be obtained by mixing
vegetable oil with ethanol.
However, vegetable oils don't dissolve well in ethanol and vice versa, so I thought turpentine might work as a ligand since it dissolves in both
ethanol and oils.
Obviously the result would not have the same calorific power and properties as gasoline. Here the requirement would be to at least have an octane
rating equivalent to typical commercial gasoline (from 95-98, depending on standards).
But I don't know how to calculate the octane number for the mix, or if it is an experimental measurement (which would make this work even more
complicated).
Ethanol has an octane rating of 113, and vegetable oil, I've read, has a similar octane rating to diesel (~50). I have not found specific data on
turpentine (70?).
My first guess is that a mix of 70% ethanol, 10% white spirit, and 20% oil might do the job, but I could be dead wrong. I also don't know if
turpentine can really bind ethanol with oil, that has been another assumption.
So does any of this make sense? Could the mixture work to obtain a fuel with an octane number of ~95?
[Edited on 4-10-2022 by angeltxilon]
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Tsjerk
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As far as I know these octane numbers are linear with concentration, so yes, the average octane number of the components will be the final octane
number. But that doesn't mean your engine will like it. Assuming the fuel will have the correct viscosity to flow at with the correct flow rates, you
could still be dissolving plastic parts and or lubrication of the engine in the 70% ethanol.
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unionised
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If you are doing this with an old lawn mower to see if it works, that's fine. An interesting science project.
I think that turpentine and ethanol will work - I'd leave the oil out of the mix, but feel free to try it and see. I'd be interested to see the
results.
If you are trying to avoid paying for gasoline then you are probably involved in tax avoidance and governments typically don't like that.
And if you are doing the experiments with a vehicle that you actually need to use, that's quite a gamble.
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Mateo_swe
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Wouldnt gasoline be cheaper and easier to use?
The time spent on experimenting with the substitute until a good replacement is found must be worth a bit too, or?
I value my free time much more than saving a minor amount of money.
And gasoline is very good for movie style explosions, lots of fire and effect.
And you could just pick some up the next time you fill your car so you even doesnt need to spend any fuel driving to purchase it.
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Texium
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Last I checked, vegetable oil, turpentine, and ethanol are each significantly more expensive by volume than gasoline anyway, even at today’s high
fuel prices.
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unionised
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Quote: Originally posted by Texium  | | Last I checked, vegetable oil, turpentine, and ethanol are each significantly more expensive by volume than gasoline anyway, even at today’s high
fuel prices. |
That will depend on local tax rates.
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Texium
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Well right now the gas price in Utah is about $4.10 per gallon, which is higher than the US average currently. Turpentine from Ace hardware is sold in
5 gallon pails for $160, so $32/gallon. A 5 gallon pail of ethanol is $60, so $12/gallon. The cheapest store brand vegetable oil that Walmart sells is
$8 for a gallon. So even if the mixture was mostly vegetable oil, it would still be twice as expensive as gasoline. For it to be viable financially,
you’d have to have some outrageous taxes and/or some much more affordable components.
Also, to be clear, I’m not trying to say it isn’t possible for it to make financial sense in other locations. Just making sure that OP is
considering the cost of the alternatives, because it seems like a common fallacy with gas prices is to assume everything must be cheaper than gas when
prices go up. Sure, you’ll spend a lot more on gas than vegetable oil in an average month. But you aren’t buying 20 gallons of vegetable oil, so
you may not think about the price-per-volume difference.
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Mateo_swe
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Maybe he can get if for free at work or something.
But i still think it would be hard to find or make a better movie style explosion liquid than gasoline or other fuel variants.
They use it in the movie industry because it give such a good visual effect.
Just explosives doesnt look that great but they are dangerously fun to play with (until the cops come knockin on the door investigating).
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pneumatician
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I read some time ago a guy making their own "gasoline" from human fat from an aesthetic clinic where people got liposuction :-)
maybe others fats work too from pigs, if you live in a cold place, from seals?? etc.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families...
[Edited on 18-10-2022 by pneumatician]
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Sulaiman
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I am very much against bio-fuels
(other than from waste products)
because it uses arable land but does not feed people.
eg global petrolem oil production is about 50x that of all edible oils combined.
We also need fats to feed ourselves,
so the idea of culling seals (or other sentient lifeforms) to feed automobiles is beyond words.
PS For environmentally friendly free green energy that is lgbtq+ woke approved, please go to my research page on patreon
[Edited on 19-10-2022 by Sulaiman]
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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pneumatician
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liposuction fat is a waste product. If you have some problem of "moral" this is another question.
| Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | We also need fats to feed ourselves,
so the idea of culling seals (or other sentient lifeforms) to feed automobiles is beyond words. |
the seals are killed anyway even if it doesn't appear on TV anymore???
I think the guy ask this for their own personal use and not for making this in industrial scale, no? so anyway if the guy hunt any animal with a
reasonable amount of fat can convert this to gasoline. But hey, people eat very strange and sometimes, repugnant things, is a question of taste :-)
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