jeovanny vitei
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home made 33% hydrochloric acid
Please let me know what would be the best apparatus and where it would be possible to avail them for a home made hydrochloric acid of 33%
concentration
thank you
jeovanny
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XeonTheMGPony
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Use the search funtion via google ie: Making HCL + Sciencemadness.
Will get you some very detailed threads on the subject.
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AJKOER
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Here is an idea that involves some advanced chemistry. Start with a very small (catalytic) amount of iron metal plus EDTA (or, perhaps better, just
copper) added to cold distilled water that will be treated with a mix of chlorine and air, preferrably in sunlight.
Some of the possible chemistry, first the action of chlorine on water:
Cl2 + H2O = HOCl + HCl
Also, the possible action of oxygen on cuprous creating the superoxide radical anion and cupric:
O2 + Cu(+) = O2•– + Cu(2+) (see, for example, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&... )
The reaction above, in the case of ferrous, is said to be promoted in presence of EDTA. Source: "Free Radicals and Inhalation Pathology: Respiratory
System, Mononuclear ...", by Erich Schiller, link:
https://books.google.com/books?id=KhvqCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA310&lpg=PA310&dq=Fe(3%2B)+%2B+O2+%3D+Fe(2%2B)+%2B+.O2-&source=bl&ots=ze_tVO0PR
B&sig=_Z8PRP1pij84W1tYDsiu9NmNGOA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwinoInEvNXOAhUDkh4KHazBAm44FBDoAQg3MAc#v=onepage&q=Fe(3%2B)%20%2B%20O2%20%3
D%20Fe(2%2B)%20%2B%20.O2-&f=false
With hypochlorous acid, there is an important parallel reaction to the Haber-Weiss reaction that will recycle some of the dioxygen, and more hydroxyl
radicals, per the reactions:
O2•– + HOCl ----> O2 + ·OH + Cl-
where one source notes that the above "reaction is analogous to the Haber-Weiss reaction but in the absence of metal ions is at least six orders of
magnitude faster" referring to the fact (not a property of the above reaction based on HOCl), that the Haber-Weiss reaction is slow absence the
presence of transition metal ions, especially those of iron and copper. See http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003986185...
Additional reactions of interest:
O2•– + Cu(+) + H+ ----> Cu(2+) + H2O2
O2•– + Fe(2+) + 2 H+ ----> Fe(3+) + H2O2
O2•– + Cu(2+) = Cu(+) + O2 (Note, reverse reaction cited above, same source)
O2•– + Fe(3+) = Fe(2+) + O2
O2•– + H+ = ·HO2
·HO2 + ·HO2 ----> H2O2 + O2
.OH + .OH ----> H2O2
Fe(3+) + H2O2 ----> Fe(2+) + .OOH + H+
Cu(+) + H2O2 ----> Cu(++) + .OH + OH-
Fe(2+) + H2O2 ----> Fe(3+) + .OH + OH- (See, for example, http://www.lenntech.com/fenton-reaction.htm)
HOCl + H2O2 ----> HCl + H2O + O2
HOCl + UV ----> HCl + 1/2 O2
Fe(3+) + Cu(+) ----> Fe(2+) + Cu(2+)
The general goal here being to expedite the decomposition of HOCl thereby promoting the consumption of chlorine and the formation of HCl.
Downside: Generating and working with chlorine gas (corrosive and toxic). Small amount of copper/iron contamination and possibly EDTA.
[Edited on 23-8-2016 by AJKOER]
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Torvature
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So I mixed a ratio of 1/2 cups white vinegar with 1/2 cup bleach and put it in an old sterile glass bottle I cut the end off an old phone charger
striped the rubber causing off stuck the -&+ends of the wire in the mix and it started bubbling I left it out side for about 2.5 hours and I came
back to notice the Bubbles had stopped so I unplugged the charger removed the wires from the mix and noticed the copper was gone wayside this happen
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AJKOER
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As a source of HOCl, my preferred path is mixing CaCl2, NaOCl and CO2, followed by filtering out the CaCO3. Further electrolysis of this HOCl and NaCl
mix with copper or stainless steel electrodes for a short time followed by more inert electrodes (carbon?) might be one possible embodiment.
Note, I suspect in hot solutions (sunlight also) some chloric acid/chlorates added to the mix. Under acidic conditions with chloride, the subsequent
formation of explosive and toxic ClO2 is a possible concern although aerating the solution may reduce the explosion hazard.
I avoid mixing acetate and chlorine owing to the possible formation of the very nasty chloroacetate. The latter appears, from my personal experience
from inadverently creating some in a so called bleach battery, to be a very powerful weed (and likely everything else) killer. See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroacetic_acid
[Edited on 23-8-2016 by AJKOER]
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Texium
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Thread Moved
23-8-2016 at 08:09 |
ave369
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I think you all overthink and overengineer it. Table salt + boiled-down Bat + funnel&beaker trap + a pretty good coolant for the receiving beaker
= 33% HCl. Using pre-distilled azeotropic HCl as the starting liquid instead of water helps much as well.
[Edited on 25-8-2016 by ave369]
Smells like ammonia....
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Romix
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I bubbled chlorine in to water. It were weakly acidic. Then turned neutral.
Were like sparkling water, It didn't react with water!
Smells, toxic, reacts with plastics. Insides of colourless PVC tube turned white. It reacted with it? Chlorine already in it. How?
[Edited on 15-9-2016 by Romix]
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myristicinaldehyde
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I made HCl gas via H2SO4 and NaCl, and bubbled it into H2O to make HCl(aq) before. I only received ~15% (if my calculations were correct) so a more
effective generating and bubbling apparatus is needed for 33%. Here is a single, shitty image:
I used it to make CuCl2, which was fun.
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battoussai114
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Quote: Originally posted by myristicinaldehyde  | I made HCl gas via H2SO4 and NaCl, and bubbled it into H2O to make HCl(aq) before. I only received ~15% (if my calculations were correct) so a more
effective generating and bubbling apparatus is needed for 33%. Here is a single, shitty image:
I used it to make CuCl2, which was fun.
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A good way to increase the yield would be using a packed bed adsorption column instead of just bubbling in water.
Batoussai.
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aga
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Has anyone found a Hempel column on ebay recently ?
Also glass beads, which i assume would be good for packing it.
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AJKOER
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| Quote: Originally posted by battoussai114 | | Quote: Originally posted by myristicinaldehyde | I made HCl gas via H2SO4 and NaCl, and bubbled it into H2O to make HCl(aq) before. I only received ~15% (if my calculations were correct) so a more
effective generating and bubbling apparatus is needed for 33%. Here is a single, shitty image:
I used it to make CuCl2, which was fun.
|
A good way to increase the yield would be using a packed bed adsorption column instead of just bubbling in water. |
Chlorine does not readily dissolve in water, but add some SO2, Cl2 now readily does dissolve because per the equilibrium reaction:
Cl2 (g) + H2O = HCl + HOCl
the hypochlorous acid reacts with the SO2/H2O removing it (forming some H2SO4) and moving the above reaction to the right, which was the point of my
discussion above on reactions with HOCl.
------------------------------------
An interesting addition to my prior comments is to introduce some shavings from Fool's Gold, FeS2. In the presence of HOCl, HCl and O2, some H2S which
subsequently reacts, to quote from Wikipedia on Hydrogen sulfide radical (link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfanyl ):
"Being a radical, HS• is quite reactive. In water HS can react with O2 producing SO2− and H+. SO2− reacts further with O2 to make SO2 and
superoxide O2−. In water HS• has an equilibrium with S− and H+. The hydroxyl radical •OH combines with H2S to form HS• and water.[21]"
Possible reactions:
FeS2 + 2 HCl → FeCl2 + H2S + S (see http://bigdargon.blogspot.com/2009/05/chu-f.html where FeCl3 is possible with one more HCl)
H2S + HOCl → H2O + HCl + S (c)
Fe(2+) + HOCl→ Fe(3+) + OH• + Cl- (See Reaction 5 at http://protein.bio.msu.ru/biokhimiya/contents/v78/full/78130... )
OH• + H2S → H2O + HS•
HS• + O2 → •SO2- + H+
•SO2- + O2 → SO2 (g) + O2•–
O2•– + HOCl → O2 (g) + OH• + Cl- (See "Hypochlorous Acid as a Precursor of Free Radicals in Living Systems" by O. M. Panasenko, https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&... )
SO2 + H2O + HOCl → H2SO4 + HCl
S (c) + 2 HOCl → SO2 (g) + 2 HCl
where, in the last reaction, I suspect, the colloidal sulfur to be reactive with the hypochlorous acid. Again, the overall goal is the removal of
HOCl leaving mostly HCl.
[Edited on 17-9-2016 by AJKOER]
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Sulaiman
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | Has anyone found a Hempel column on ebay recently ?
Also glass beads, which i assume would be good for packing it. |
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200-300-400-500mm-Joint-24-29-Lab-...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLINT-GLASS-SODA-LIME-BEADS-3-mm-C...
if you are patient even better prices are available,
e.g. 28 June I won http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182180164006?_trksid=p2057872.m274...
2 X B 24/29 W/ 1 B 19/26 QUICKFIT AIR CONDENSERS MINT CONDITION for £14 total with p&p 
[Edited on 17-9-2016 by Sulaiman]
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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