CHRIS25
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Identification of this metal
Had this for years, there is 3/4 kilogram here, when dropped on one another you get a firework display. But only now I thought to question whether it
is ferro titanium or raw titanium. I read something by the by, quite by accident, and then thought Oh, I may not have pure titanium after all. Apart
from some rainbow oxidation on some other piece it is relatively silver-grey all over except for the blue you see here on this piece. So I thought I
would post the image to ask what others may think.
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aga
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Chuck it in a measuring jug of water and find it's volume (by displacement) then you can calculate the density, which should help identify it.
Depending on it's purity, it should be around 4.5 g/cc if it's titanium
[Edited on 24-4-2014 by aga]
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CHRIS25
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Placed 664g in 400mLs water. 140mLs displaced density = 4.7
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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blogfast25
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Aha, I rather love these problems.
It rather looks like titanium. The blue thin layer diffraction you see can be seen on Ti too. And Ti sparks easily.
The density points strongly to a Period IV element or alloy thereof.
As luck would have it there's a simple and colourful test for Ti and you happen to have the reagents needed.
File (or break) off a bit of the chunk and drop it into conc. HCl. Heat gently if possible. Ti reacts with hot conc. HCl fairly vigorously. After 1/2
- 1 h your solution should be blue/purple, caused by Ti<sup>3+</sup> ions.
Allow to cool and add a few drops of H2O2 (6 % is fine). This immediately oxidises the Ti (III) to Ti (IV) and forms a Ti(IV) peroxo complex that is
vivid red in colour. The test is unmistakable.
This test will work also on ferrotitanium.
Where did you get this specimen? It's beautiful, congrats!
[Edited on 24-4-2014 by blogfast25]
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Bert
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What color are the sparks? Pure Ti sponge makes silver/white, Fe/Ti sparks are gold.
Pure Ti should be around 4.5g/cc density.
You can see the bubbles- I'd expect this sample to come in LESS dense than pure Ti due to the voids. How precise was your scale and volumetric flask?
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CHRIS25
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Bert - How precise was your scale and volumetric flask? It was just a normal measuring jug. I will do the test again in a more gradated jug. The
sparks are very difficult to say, I just dropped them a few times and multiple opinions go for more gold looking than pure white.
Blogfast - Where did you get this specimen? I used to be an international trucker, I got it in Germany when I was delivering 24 tons of it to a huge
smelting works, when you tip 20 tons onto the floor in the factory - Wow, did I see some sparks. I will do the test tomorrow, but will the test
indicate if it is alloyed
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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DraconicAcid
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Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  | Aha, I rather love these problems.
It rather looks like titanium. The blue thin layer diffraction you see can be seen on Ti too. And Ti sparks easily.
As luck would have it there's a simple and colourful test for Ti and you happen to have the reagents needed.
File (or break) off a bit of the chunk and drop it into conc. HCl. Heat gently if possible. Ti reacts with hot conc. HCl fairly vigorously. After 1/2
- 1 h your solution should be blue/purple, caused by Ti<sup>3+</sup> ions.
Allow to cool and add a few drops of H2O2 (6 % is fine). This immediately oxidises the Ti (III) to Ti (IV) and forms a Ti(IV) peroxo complex that is
vivid red in colour. The test is unmistakable.
This test will work also on ferrotitanium.
Where did you get this specimen? It's beautiful, congrats!
[Edited on 24-4-2014 by blogfast25] |
That will tell you if the piece contains titanium, but I get the impression that the OP is trying to decide if it's pure titanium or not. You could
test for iron by adding thiocyanate to the solution (Vogel assures me that titanium doesn't interfere with this test).
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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CHRIS25
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Just placed 400mLs water in a fine gradated jug. Different Titanium piece weighed 405 grams. Water displaced = 86mLs, this was measured by
extracting water from a jug with a syringe until level was down to 400mLs again. And guess what, Density is exactly 4.7 again.
Thanks Draconic, pity, I don't have any thiocyanate. and I am certainly not going make that one. (sulphur and cyanide)
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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DraconicAcid
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I checked Vogel's Quantitative analysis to see if there was a way to figure out what % of your metal is titanium, but none of the procedures there
lend themselves to home chemistry.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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blogfast25
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You could test for iron by allowing the solution of Ti/FeTi (?) to sit in a shallow dish for a couple of days. Air oxygen will oxidise both Fe (II)
and Ti (III) to Fe (III) and Ti (IV). Chances are that by then Fe(OH)3 will start precipitating.as a reddish brown precipitate.
[Edited on 24-4-2014 by blogfast25]
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CHRIS25
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Thanks Draconic. Blogfast just did this, we'll see.
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by CHRIS25 | | Just placed 400mLs water in a fine gradated jug. Different Titanium piece weighed 405 grams. Water displaced = 86mLs, this was measured by
extracting water from a jug with a syringe until level was down to 400mLs again. And guess what, Density is exactly 4.7 again.
|
Are you aware of this neat little trick to determine displaced volume:
http://oxfordchemserve.com/density-of-solid-objects-archimed...
Magic: no syringe!
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CHRIS25
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I weighed the titanium = 405grams. I zeroed the scales with water and dipped the piece into the water attached to thin copper wire. The scales
measured 76 grams. 405/76 = 5.3. that is one huge difference.
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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Bert
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If you were delivering by the multi ton to a steel works, this is almost certainly ferro Titanium. They use it to remove certain impurities out of
molten Iron- Sulfur, Nitrogen, Oxygen and Carbon react with the Ti and end up as slag floating on the melt.
"Titanium, the nymphomaniac of metals- Get it hot enough and it'll combine with ANYTHING!"
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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CHRIS25
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Oh, that makes sense then.
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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blogfast25
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With Fe at 7.87 and Ti at 4.5, 5.3 would make sense for a FeTi.
The vacuoles in the metal would be consistent with aluminothermic preparation (thermite), as is used for ferrotitanium.
I'm reasonably sure that ferrotitanium is also used as 'master batches', to spike certain alloys with small amounts of Ti (property enhancement of
alloys).
[Edited on 25-4-2014 by blogfast25]
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CHRIS25
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Absolutely. And this method you pointed out is a more accurate measurement for density. Thankyou.
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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blogfast25
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The error with the first method arises when you use a fairly large cylindrical vessel. A small uncertainty in the exact level is magnified by
multiplying it with π R<sup>2</sup>, the surface area of the water. Since as reading the exact level is difficult, measuring error
tends to be quite large. But I'm sure you figured that out by now.
[Edited on 25-4-2014 by blogfast25]
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