GreenD
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MSDS sheets?
There is a nice website,
http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/
however it obviously isn't going to have everything.
I've been trying to get some alcohols, methanol, ethanol, etc... from winshield washer fluids. Right now I have Power Blast stuff, but cannot find a
msds of it for content. I've seen everything from <10 - >95%....
I think also, that my search engines are acting against me. They keep showing me very, very strange web pages with stock tickers and such - not
anything close to what I need.
Also, I know methanol is very toxic if ingested, but to what degree does its toxicity carry over in vapors? I do not have a fume hood and don't think
I could do this outside, although I do have a closed glass system. ..
I may be abondoning methanol all together, or just get the concentrate from which I am sure is available (no distilling).
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The WiZard is In
International Hazard
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Registered: 3-4-2010
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Quote: Originally posted by GreenD  |
Also, I know methanol is very toxic if ingested, but to what degree does its toxicity carry over in vapors? I do not have a fume hood and don't think
I could do this outside, although I do have a closed glass system. .. |
MSDS's are written by lawyers, search elsewhere.
Google only yields 2 660 000 hits for methanol toxicity.
Methanol vapor toxicity - 446 000.
Methanol vapour toxicity - 550 000
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sternman318
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Look for Heet
http://www.amazon.com/28201-Gas-Line-Antifreeze-Water-Remove...
They sell it at my local Auto-Zone in the fuel additives aisle.
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hkparker
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Really? I didn't know, but always wondered why they were so extreme.
My YouTube Channel
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true if it be consistent with the laws of nature." -Michael Faraday
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redox
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J. T. Baker's MSDS's are usually fairly accurate, they state danger and toxicity at an appropriate level.
My quite small but growing Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RealChemLabs
Newest video: Synthesis of Chloroform
The difference between chemists and chemical engineers: Chemists use test tubes, chemical engineers use buckets. |
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hkparker
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| Quote: Originally posted by redox | | J. T. Baker's MSDS's are usually fairly accurate, they state danger and toxicity at an appropriate level. |
That's what I usually use. They seem fair enough, but I have seen some extreme ones.
My YouTube Channel
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true if it be consistent with the laws of nature." -Michael Faraday
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bob800
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| Quote: Originally posted by redox | | J. T. Baker's MSDS's are usually fairly accurate, they state danger and toxicity at an appropriate level. |
Unfortunately, their website seems to have changed and their MSDS's are no longer available (They're now "Avantor")! Some of them are still saved in
Google's cache, but many of them are inaccessible.
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azo
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Material safety data sheets do not always detail whats in the product because if it is non hazardous not disclosing whats in it is allowed, to stop
people from copying your product. Hazardous products you only have to disclose the hazardous ingreadiences and then to 100% is the non hazardous
ingreadience which you will still not have to disclose.
But with products that are clasified dangerous goods all ingreadiences have to be disclosed , as well as the manufacture has to be contactable all of
the time from the poisons information centre or hospitals or doctors.
This is required under the new 17 header msds sheets which is now standardised across the world.
Lawers do not prepair msds sheets the only thing they do is prepair the disclaimer section which is used on all of the manufactures msds sheets.
The clasifacation of products is done by the manufacture ,this is based on the amount of each ingredient used which all ingrediences have
concentration cut of levels for each clasification ,ex phosphoric acid used above 10% would be r34 corrosive between 5% and 10% would be an irritant r
36 r37 and under 5 % would be non hazardous.
And formulars are used to work out what the clasification is ,and the manufacture also has to take into account the syngistic affect of these
ingrediences.
REGARDS AZO
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woelen
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I actually dislike MSDS sheets. I only sometimes use them to look up physical properties like appearance, boiling point, solubility. Frequently these
are mentioned in an MSDS sheet. Otherwise, they are not interesting for me.
MSDS sheets are written with the worst case scenario in mind, e.g. a multitonne leakage of the chemical near a 1000+ C fire. They also are written
with industrial workers in mind, who work with the compound 8 hours per day as part of their job. Even table salt then becomes toxic and gloves and
respiratory protection are needed even for table salt under such conditions, due to dust inhalation and skin irritation.
MSDS sheets usually list incompatibles. I have tried many incompatible combinations, mentioned in MSDS sheets, but most of them do not give a reaction
at all. Maybe at a few hundred degrees or when mixed in multitonne quantities, but not in my test tubes 
So, if you read MSDS sheets, take them with a big grain of salt.
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azo
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The msds sheets are not so important for people like yourself but are very important for end users with very little knowledge .
for example if using products with volatile solvents in them like glycol ethers or ammona and so on in confined spaces this is very dangerous ,This is
why a msds list (twa) and (stel) so the user understands how much of this chemical they can be exposed to in a given area or amount of time. Not to
mention getting serious burns. I meen to say you would not put your hands in a solution that contained 30% potasium hydroxide 18% sodium metasilicate
10% glycol eithers you do not need to be told what this would do to you as you are awair of this but end users are not.As you no corrosive compouds in
solution are far more dangerous ,the biggest thing with any end products is not to drink it or get it in your eyes but this does often happen
unfotunently to children and for a doctors point of view,whats in the product and concentraitions is very importent for treatment If the doctor did
not have msds available and i child drinks chemicals you only have to imagine the outcome.
And you are right about the incompatability section but this is not always the case,and the decomposition products are very important for fire
fighters when they turn up at a large fire to no what breathing equipment needs to be used and whether to evacuate people,and further more if a truck
overturned into or near a water way and there were chemicals that are dangerous to marine life there are procedures for the containment and
neutralisation of these products.
And about the table salt is not correct ,it would only require safety equipment for things that could have an impact on the user ,bottled water does
not have a msds sheet does it.
the reason this is listed like that is because the msds has a standard set of requirements for non hazardous products and you would not want to change
this imformation for every non hazardous ingredience.
I think telling people to take msds with a grain of salt is very dangerous and not responcable to the audiece at wide ,not everyone is as informed as
you are,and i think everyone can get some information from msds at some time.
regards azo
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woelen
Super Administrator
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I still say to read these MSDS sheets with a grain of salt if you are an occasional user of the compound in a small scale lab setting (or home user
setting). Your examples in your last post demonstrate what I said before. You are talking about an overturned truck which looses chemicals. You are
talking about fires of large size where special precautions must be taken when these fires must be extinguished. But these all are disasters of
industrial size where you are talking about tonne scales.
Do you really think that a fire fighter who comes in or near a burning house and there is a few 100's of ml of some toxic chemical cares about that?
The massive amounts of what people call ordinary material (wood, carpets, plastics, etc.) and the smoke released by the smouldering and burning of
that really overwhelmes the small amount of vapor of your toxic chemical. Of course, while writing this I assume that the average home chemist does
not have hundreds of kilos of toxic or otherwise hazardous chemicals in his house. Somewhere else on sciencemadness I read about a guy having 500 kilo
of KClO3 under his bed, but this is an extreme (and in my opinion bad) example of how things should not be done.
Summarizing: Use these MSDS sheets, they can provide useful information, but do not apply all of the information to your situation as an occasional
small scale user. Use common sense while interpreting the data in the sheets.
Really good information on the risks of chemicals in a small scale lab setting unfortunately is not available in a standardized way. Such information
certainly is available for almost every chemical, but there is no single source with authority, which covers all (common) chemicals or classes of
chemicals.
The best way to keep yourself and your family happy is to work on a small scale (test tubes, tens of milligrams instead of grams). Even with rather
toxic materials or highly flammable or explosive materials no real bad things can happen when working on a microscale. And use basic protection, like
glasses, good ventilation (better: work outside if working with stuff like Cl2, Br2, H2S) and only non-flammable materials on your workbench.
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