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Nicodem
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I think the reason why most individuals fail to order chemicals is because they try to order them directly instead of going trough local resellers.
Even most universities and some industries order the chemicals used in research trough resellers rather than directly from
Sigma-Acros-Alfa-Abcr-Merck-Fisher-etc (buying in bulk is another thing). Now imagine an individual trying to put an order at one of these
giants. Even if they don't just laugh you off as some kind of an annoying fly, they would still never risk selling potentially hazardous stuff to
weird clueless individuals. Why would they risk legal complications for a couple of bucks only?
I never had problems buying chemicals as an individual as I always respected the idiotic commercial laws about going trough local resellers. After
all, when you want to buy a beer you don't go to buy it in the brewery, don't you? You got to buy it trough resellers (like in a store or pub). The
only annoyance when buying the chemicals as an individual is to agree on the method of payment since you obviously can not pay in cash. But these
things are highly variable from one country to another (level of paranoia, legislation, etc.), from one reseller to the other (some simply don't see
it worth bothering with small orders)…
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Jor
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Yes, I can order from Merck/Fisher/Acros/Baker as well, and I do it through a local reseller.
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panziandi
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To quote Microcosmicus above:
"In this respect, Fisher is worse than most other educational suppliers. While none
of them sell chemicals to individuals, at least the others still sell equipment and
supplies to the general public."
Indeed possibly the best example of how pathetic Fisher are, last year I contacted Buchi UK for a replacement gasket for my rotary evaporator. They
told me exactly what I needed and told me to use Fisher as they were cheaper (knowing I was private individual too, I keep no secrets!) Fisher refused
point blank and I subsequently emailed their customer services complaining that I can understand not selling chemicals and syringes to the public, but
rubber gaskets are just the most harmless thing going ... like filter papers too!
Anyway, Buchi UK were more than happy to sell me the same item but for a slightly higher price no problems at all! Cheers Buchi!
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pantone159
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I have bought stuff from Online Science Mall, mostly equipment but I think a few chems. They have small amounts, but if that is all you need that is
fine.
I think they have another name on eBay btw.
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microcosmicus
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Sure, Nicodem and Jor, one should buy small quantities from a retailer rather than from
a wholesaler or manufacturer. That, unfortunately, is not the real problem. Here, in the United
States, thanks to liability issues, drug laws, and terrorism laws, most resellers are not
selling to individuals anymore and that stores which sell to individuals no longer carry
chemicals.
Ten years ago I could do as Jor does and order high-end name-brand chemicals
through a reseller, but now these same resellers will no longer do business with me.
(See, for example. jimwig's post about doing business with Fisher, In addition to
their giant plant, they also have a retail arm which sells small quantities.)
As you said, universities and businesses also buy from small quantities from retailers.
Given that hobbyists were never likely more than a few percent of their total sales
anyway, the mainstream scientific retailers decided that it was more trouble than it
is worth to sell chemicals to individuals due to the new laws and the risk of jeopardizing
their good standing with the NACD. That only leaves one with a few fringe retailers.
There are a handful of companies by hobbyists for hobbyists like United Nuclear and
CR Scientific as well as a few holdovers from the good old days like The Science
Company. There are companies which cater to homeschoolers and science fair projects.
Other than that and individuals with chemicals for sale, all we really have here in the U.S.
is a gray market of low-key, no-questions-asked retailers. I really don't want to get
involved with this gray market because of the risk of guilt by association --- in the
current legal climate, if I happen to buy something from a sleazy supplier who makes
much of his profits from drug and bomb cooks, I could all to easily be mistaken for a
c(r)ook and get in big trouble. Hence all the interest in finding up-front above-board
retailers which sell chemicals to individuals.
Carrying your analogy further, the situation here is like if I walked into a liquor store
to get some beer and was asked if I had a restaurant license. This extends beyond
scientific retailers. For instance, a while back, Nicodem, you asked:
| Quote: |
Isn't sulfuric acid available in hardware stores in the USA or something changed due to some new regulations? In EU anyone can buy diluted H2SO4 as
used to refill car batteries.
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Recently, when I went to auto shops, I could no longer find H2SO4 available. From what
I understand, nowadays battery acid is only sold to licensed mechanics. The only form
available in hardware stores (or most anywhere else) is the drain cleaner, which is full of
crud. That is why the American members of this list are so preoccupied with trying to
use and purify drain cleaner as well as what Polverone calls "grandfather's chemistry" ---
reviving old methods of manufacture to produce common chemicals which are no
longer available to the general public.
Certainly, price is not much of a reason for obtaining chemicals by extraction and purification
from household products --- it often costs at least as much to do this as it would to buy a proper
chemical reagent were one readily available. To be sure, rolling ones own chemicals can be
an interesting hobby in its own right and doing it well requires a fair degree of chemical
sophistication. However, not only can this be daunting for the newcomer, but the time
spent reading labels, tracking down suppliers, etc. could have been spent doing experiments.
Were it not for necessity, I would not be putting so much of my time and energy into this activity.
If this sounds bizarre to folks like Nocodem, Jor, and W. Oelen who are blessed to be
located in countries where chemicals are available, I understand because it is still
sinking in to me. Not all that long ago, when I was in school, I had a home lab and
could buy equipment and common chemicals at the local hobby store and order
more chemicals from the catalogues of companies which supplied the school lab.
A decade later, I wind up settling down and think to take chemistry up again as a
hobby. (The decision was influenced in good part by finding this list and lurking on it
for a while.) It was quite a shock to me when I first found out that scientific suppliers
would no longer sell to me. It kind of make me feel like Rip van Winkle waking up
to find that my old familiar home had changed completely with the passage of time
and I still find myself pinching myself to make sure this is not some crazy dream.
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Magpie
lab constructor
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I have bought equipment from Fisher in the past, although it's been at least 2 years now. I would call on their toll free number, tell them what I
wanted, and give my credit card information. The only problems I had is that it seems like they would screw up every order. So they just became my
supplier of last resort for that reason. Maybe their policies have changed recently toward non-institutional customers.
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conducter
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i swear i have the hardest time finding Boron tribromide, i just want to experiment with this in some demethylation chemistry for college, but i mean
i cant seem to find it.
Its not illegal, its not listed or anything.
Does anybody have ANY hint on where i can get this? hell email me if u dont wanna say it on the boards. id really really appreciate it.
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not_important
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Registered: 21-7-2006
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here
http://www.pfaltzandbauer.com/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?type=chemnam...
and there
http://www.spectrumchemical.com/retail/product.asp?catalog%5...
and even at
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search/ProductDetail/ALD...
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microcosmicus
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Registered: 31-12-2007
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I am quite glad to report that I can retract my statement about H2SO4. Today, I finally
located and bought some battery acid at an R. S. Strauss auto store. (Other auto
stores I tried did not have it or did not want to sell it to me.) Also, it is apparently not
that easy to locate for others as well because someone from Canada
just started a thread about purifying drain cleaner.
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MagicJigPipe
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Location: USA
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Battery acid is the purist form of H2SO4 that can be obtained locally in the US in my experiences. Unfortunately, even now it is hard to find that.
There are only 2 places in my local area (that I know of) that still sell it. This is so stupid. I'd better stop before I get worked up again.
Oh yeah, it's really expensive, too. $5 a quart (about a liter) for ~35% H2SO4.
That's pretty damn high for one of the most produced chemicals in the world.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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497
National Hazard
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Apparently I am fortunate in that respect, I just got 5 gallons of battery acid for $15. I was very happy. They (Napa) also had quart sizes for about
$5 but thats just a rip off. Battery acid is nice and pure, but its sure a pain to distill up to concentration. I wish I live 50 years ago when you
could go down the the local chemical store and buy a kilo of KCN no questions asked... 
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
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There are several Napa stores around here and all they have is the quart sizes. I can only assume it has something to do with the mass hysteria I
like to call the "meth scare".
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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microcosmicus
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Registered: 31-12-2007
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Where I am, the Napa stores went out of business. I too only found the smaller size.
As for why, meth cooks and terrorists are part of the story, I expect liability and safe
storage issues are another part, but there is also the fact that most people nowadays
do not bother to replenish the electrolyte but replace their batteries. To a
large extent, the last
is due to better designed batteries which do not need as much attention, especially
sealed batteries.
[Edited on 26-2-2008 by microcosmicus]
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chemrox
International Hazard
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referral issues
We work with a number of mainstream suplliers and some others that are a lot smaller and work extra hard to get better proces for us. In the current
regulatory climate referring folks to the smaller companies is a little like passing on login information for libraries and journals. I wouldn't want
to mistakenly refer someone who would get my guys in trouble. The sites that supply inorganics and cork and tube glassware are no problem but these
are of very little use to us. At least one of the smaller outfits visit here and would make contact when, where and to whom he felt confident with.
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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Sandmeyer
National Hazard
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| Quote: | Originally posted by conducter
i swear i have the hardest time finding Boron tribromide, i just want to experiment with this in some demethylation chemistry for college, but i mean
i cant seem to find it.
Its not illegal, its not listed or anything.
Does anybody have ANY hint on where i can get this? hell email me if u dont wanna say it on the boards. id really really appreciate it.
|
If what you are saying is true, then you should have BBr3 in the fridge at your "college". But if you want to cleave an aryl-methyl ether at home,
then there are numerous methods that doesn't involve the use of BBr3, you have obviously not searched the fucking search engines, or else you wouldn't
ask about BBr3.
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Sandmeyer
National Hazard
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Registered: 9-1-2005
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| Quote: | Originally posted by chemkid
I have searched the board a couple of times, and searched the internet, maybe i use all the wrong key words, but i having trouble finding suppliers
who will:
(1) Sell to me
(2) Have a large stock
(3) prices are realistic
(4) Sell in 500g quanities (or even less)
Perhaps we could compile a list of sorts?
I'll start....
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/
The selection of reageants is not great, the prices are rather high on chemicals, the glassware is basic but well priced
Chemkid
[Edited on 6-2-2008 by chemkid] |
When I experimented at home I got a lot of basic stuff (like solvents, salts, common reagents) via local pharmacy, they can order from the big brand$.
They asked for name - but never ID 
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muriaticacid
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yea the other day i went over to Apex Pharmacy in the US and to my disbelief I found that they sold KNO3, sulfur, ammonium alum and glycerine. After
all these years looking around at pharmacies i found one that sold all this stuff (unfortunately i just got a bunch of KNO3 so didn't get the joy of
buying it from the pharmacy)
Better still, I asked if they had any citric acid they said no but they could order it for me. I leave my name and 2 days later i have 500g of citric
acid for 8 bucks. the name on the package is Medisca which is a pharmaceutical compounding company (didn't even know that was still done) next time I'll see what else i can get from them.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
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Location: USA
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Mood: Suspicious
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It is extremely common for the older "mom and pop" type stores to have KNO3, Sulfur, alum, glycerol, salicylic acid, "water glass" and a bunch of
other more obscure chemicals.
Pharmacies, however, are outrageously expensive. I tried calling around for some KI today (I found out that KI is cheaper than NaI which baffled me).
I found a couple of pharmacies that were willing to order it for me at the UNBELIEVABLE price of $40-$50 per 100g USP. I can get ACS Reagent grade
KI for cheaper than that on Ebay! In fact, the ACS grade is HALF that price! They wanted like $40 for a pound of citric acid as well!
Tomorrow I will call around for some phthalic acid. I don't want to ask for all these things at once because they might think I'm a terrorist or
something. Most pharmacies couldn't believe that I wanted pure KI powder instead of pills or liquid solution. One pharmacist even had the audacity
to ask, "What do you NEED that for?" I hate when people say that. I would normally ask, "What do you NEED that $50,000, 4 ton SUV for?" Exactly, I
would say. Exactly.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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muriaticacid
Harmless
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does anybody know what grade the KI they sell for human radiation protection is?
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
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Technically (legally?), it has to be USP grade.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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-jeffB
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
I tried calling around for some KI today (I found out that KI is cheaper than NaI which baffled me).
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I've assumed the expensive part is the I content. A kg of KI contains 765g of I; a kg of NaI contains 847g of I.
Last time I checked, Skylighter sold KI for something like US$15/lb. I've never seen it close to that cheap anywhere else. I don't think they ship
outside the US, though.
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hg23
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| Quote: |
| Quote: |
Isn't sulfuric acid available in hardware stores in the USA or something changed due to some new regulations? In EU anyone can buy diluted H2SO4 as
used to refill car batteries.
|
Recently, when I went to auto shops, I could no longer find H2SO4 available. From what
I understand, nowadays battery acid is only sold to licensed mechanics. The only form
available in hardware stores (or most anywhere else) is the drain cleaner, which is full of
crud. That is why the American members of this list are so preoccupied with trying to
use and purify drain cleaner as well as what Polverone calls "grandfather's chemistry" ---
reviving old methods of manufacture to produce common chemicals which are no
longer available to the general public.
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here in sweden battery acid (37% H2SO4) has been banned (you need a special permit to buy it) since 2001 i think..
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jarynth
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 What did they replace it with in the batteries? Akvavit?
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