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chemkid
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Suppliers
I have searched the board a couple of times, and searched the internet, maybe i use all the wrong key words, but i having trouble finding suppliers
who will:
(1) Sell to me
(2) Have a large stock
(3) prices are realistic
(4) Sell in 500g quanities (or even less)
Perhaps we could compile a list of sorts?
I'll start....
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/
The selection of reageants is not great, the prices are rather high on chemicals, the glassware is basic but well priced
Chemkid
[Edited on 6-2-2008 by chemkid]
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-jeffB
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hometrainingtools.com looks pretty good to me. Yeah, the stuff's expensive per gram, but in my "chemistry set" days I would have much preferred to
pay $5 for an ounce of whatever instead of $20 for a pound of it. (Actually, it was more like 35 cents for an ounce at the hobby store vs. $2 for a
pound from Sargent-Welch. But I digress.)
For many other needs, I have to suggest eBay. They haven't managed to ban everything yet, and there are several "eBay Stores" that carry a
pretty wide range of stuff. Prices vary.
If you're a minor, you probably won't have much luck anywhere. That's why it's important to cultivate a good relationship with your parents and your
science teachers -- especially your science teachers, who may be able to let you order things through the school. That's how I managed to get mineral
acids and various other interesting reagents while I was in elementary and middle school.
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microcosmicus
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While they may not meet all your criteria, here are three places which at least
satisfy criteria 1 and 4:
http://www.chemicalstore.com/index.asp?MySessionID=349-53639...
Not to big a selection (but they are just starting out in business) and some
of the items seem pricy. For me, the big advantage is that they are down the
street from me, so no waiting for orders or paying high shipping fees for
dangerous chemicals (be your own hazmat driver). Since their labels are not
really informative, I may ask them about the grade of what they sell the next time
I go over there and let you all know the response I get. Also, not listed on their
website but evident when walks into the store, they have a fair stock of used apparatus.
http://secure.sciencecompany.com/index.aspx
I haven't bought from them yet, but they look worthy of consideration.
http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/thescienceshop/StoreFro...
Another link from my bookmarks. Unfortunately, since they are located in
California, they have to report purchases over $100 to DEA and furthermore
require two forms of identification from customers.
How I long for the days (not that distant in the past --- 15 or 20 years ago)
when one could walk into the local model store and pick up Perfect chemicals
and glassware! Or, for that matter, have a reasonable selection of
electronic components at the local Radio Shack (not to mention the
mom-and-pop electronic shops).
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chloric1
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| Quote: | Originally posted by microcosmicus
How I long for the days (not that distant in the past --- 15 or 20 years ago)
when one could walk into the local model store and pick up Perfect chemicals
and glassware! Or, for that matter, have a reasonable selection of
electronic components at the local Radio Shack (not to mention the
mom-and-pop electronic shops). |
Or even better one pharmacy on the near southside stocked every drugstore chemical you could think of. All in the same isle was,
1,1,1-Trichloroethane,water glass, copper sulfate, potassium permanganate, camphor, bismuth subnitrate, sulfur etc etc and this was last seen in 1994!
Fellow molecular manipulator
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woelen
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There also is another side. Although locally, the number of chemicals which you can obtain has been reduced drastically, with the help of internet,
one can obtain materials which I never could obtain as a young boy 25 years ago.
At the age of 17 (now 25 years ago), I simply walked into a drugstore and purchased stuff like:
- KClO3
- KNO3
- KMnO4
- S
- Na2S2O3
- Na2SO3
- solvents like CHCl=CCl2, CCl4, acetone, ether.
- several metal salts (copper, nickel, cobalt)
This unfortunately is past. Locally there only are few chemicals, only the most benign ones.
But the other side is, now I have obtained really rare stuff through web-suppliers. Just to name a few:
- SOCl2
- SO2Cl2
- CH3COCl
- NbCl5
- H2PtCl6
- HgCl2
- Se
- Te
- SeO2
- Ta(OH)5
- RuCl3
- IrCl4
- and many many more
So, for the starting chemistry hobbyist, who wants basic stuff like KNO3 for fun pyro experiments, or some metal salts for nice precipitates and redox
reactions, things have become more difficult. For the more advanced hobbyist, who has found his sources over the years, many new possibilities have
appeared, which only could be dreamt of 25 years ago. As a private person, I never could obtain any of the chems, mentioned above, when I had to do
with the local drugstores.
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chloric1
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Yes woelen you make a valid point but even with the assistance of the information age, the general consensus is leaning against such a hobby. You can
order things not available before but many of the more spectacular experiments(energetics,thermite etc) have to be done in absolute privacy or at odd
hours of the night to avoid prosecution and persecution.
Whats more, I discovered mail order chem catalogs around 1991 and I remember acids and oxidizers had only $5 hazmat charge. Now its at
LEAST $25-$30 and often more than the cost of the reagent(technical 93% H2SO4 or example).
As far as collecting sources for materials over the years, over here sources disappear as fast as new ones take there place. I feel vulnerable
ordering excesssively from straight lab suppliers for obvious reasons. I prefer to obtain many chemicals from more discrete sources.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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undead_alchemist
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| Quote: | Originally posted by chloric1
Whats more, I discovered mail order chem catalogs around 1991 and I remember acids and oxidizers had only $5 hazmat charge. Now its at
LEAST $25-$30 and often more than the cost of the reagent(technical 93% H2SO4 or example).
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Well 500ml amounts can be shipped with no hazmat fee, well at least here in Canada.
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Magpie
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Although not chem suppliers per se do not forget pottery, photographic, and swimming pool suppliers.
from microcosmicus:
"Or, for that matter, have a reasonable selection of
electronic components at the local Radio Shack (not to mention the mom-and-pop electronic shops)."
Isn't that the truth. It seems they now mostly just want to sell electronic gadgets and barely cater to the hobbyist. I thought I had found a
mom-and-pop electronics shop but when I tried to ask some technical questions they basically threw me out.
[Edited on by Magpie]
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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pantone159
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| Quote: | Or, for that matter, have a reasonable selection of
electronic components at the local Radio Shack (not to mention the mom-and-pop electronic shops). |
Fry's seems to have some selection of electronic components. Even some chems, 99+% iPrOH, FeCl3 solutions, some other things too. They even sell
Erlenmeyer flasks which is definitely not legal here!
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497
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Hah you think its hard to find good suppliers where you are? Try finding ones that will ship to Alaska! Its pretty well impossible for anything other
than really inert stuff... i think Unitednuclear might but their selection sucks. If anyone knows of any I would greatly like to hear of them.
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Magpie
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There are no Fry's in my area and they show only a few components on the internet.
I was able to find a breadboard, a project box, and the resistors at my local Radio Schack. But for the resistors I will have to place 3ea 10k ohm in
an array to get 15k ohm as they did not have this.
Allied Electronics, Newark, and Digi-Key all have massive selections of components but often have minimum order quantities in the hundreds or even
thousands. It took me many hours of searching to find 3ea capacitors, 1 potentiometer, 1 choke, 1 fuse, 1 fuse holder, and 1 quadrac to my
specifications. Then there's the minimum $ charge and the freight. But at least with the internet you can get what you want.
[Edited on by Magpie]
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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woelen
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| Quote: | | I prefer to obtain many chemicals from more discrete sources. |
Yes, that is the best way to find chems. Over
the last few years, I found it remarkable, how many rare chems I could obtain from such discrete sources. My best sources are/were private eBay
sellers (not the big powersellers), who sell just some not too special stuff on eBay (stuff like Mg-ribbon, red prussiate of potash, sodium sulfite)
and then I make a small order at such a seller. I now already have had three times, that after such an order, they contacted me (by email) that they
have more chems, but are not willing to sell them on eBay. In this way I obtained many of the chemicals, mentioned above. I even obtained some
UO2(NO3)2 and Th(NO3)4, which are amazingly hard to get from a real chemical supplier like Aldrich, Merck or Acros. Often those chemicals from such
'private' sellers are very old. I have pre-war bottles with the most obscure reagents still in perfect condition (e.g. zirconyl nitrate, cesium
nitrate, uranyl formiate, selenous acid), and much more stuff from the 1970's from the former GDR (former Eastern Germany).
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bfesser
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In the Twin Cities area (Minnesota, around St. Paul and Minneapolis) there are three <strong>Ax-Man Surplus</strong> stores. One is in
Fridley, one in St. Louis Park, and one in St. Paul on University Ave. (the largest selection). Anyone living in the area who hasn't been there, GO
NOW!
Here's their website, which hasn't been updated in nearly an internet millenia -- http://www.ax-man.com/
They have electronics components, glassware, motors, fans, wire, tubing, rope, and many things you would never imagine even existed. They have no
chemicals, but their glassware selection is always changing (as it's surplus), and sometimes you find great things that you'd
<em>never</em> be able to get anywhere else.
[edit]
I just picked up a flawless 23 cm Coors desiccator plate there yesterday, for $1.95!
[Edited on 2/8/08 by bfesser]
[edit] Four stores. They've had one in Crystal for a couple years.
[Edited on 12.12.13 by bfesser]
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chemkid
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Has anyone ever ordered from Fisher Scientific Education?
http://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/BROWSEHIERARCHY?catalogI...
Their selection on chemicals didn't seem bad at all. Nor quantities, nor prices. Also i didn't see anything preventing orders from individuals as long
as you can fill in a company name etc.
CHemkid
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microcosmicus
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| Quote: |
Also i didn't see anything preventing orders from individuals as long as you can fill in a company name etc.
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It is just me, or is there a blatant contradiction in that sentence?
From their terms of service:
| Quote: |
Access to Web site procurement services (the "Service") is available only to businesses and their authorized employees, agents and/or contractors
(collectively, "Subscribers") who register with Distributor by submitting a Web site Registration Form and is limited to those Subscribers who are
authorized to form legally binding contracts under applicable law on behalf of the businesses or organizations they represent.
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http://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/CMSTATIC?store=Scientifi...
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chemkid
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Well yes, their is a bit of a contradiction there. However, many things simply reqire a company name and its usally not hard if you have a friend,
parent, sibling etc. whose company name you can use to have the package sent to.
Nothing in the terms and conditions seems to prevent an individual associated with a company to order as opposed to needing to register or sign up
your entire company. I am curious to know what constitutes 'authorized'.
Chemkid
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microcosmicus
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| Quote: |
Nothing in the terms and conditions seems to prevent an individual associated with a company to order
as opposed to needing to register or sign up your entire company
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If you read the fine print on the side of the registration page
https://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/NEWUSER?independent=YES...
, it also says
| Quote: |
If you do not have a Fisher Account, you can still create your user profile, but you will not have access to
online order placement, your contract pricing or real-time product availability. Your orders will be
reviewed by Customer service before processing.
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So all you can do using just a company name to fill out the form is get a user profile which doesn't
let you do very much. As for accounts, if you download the application form for an account, you will
see that it asks for a heck of a lot more than just a company name and address. For instance,
you would also need to provide year of incorporation, bank account number, Dun and Bradstreet
number, obtain three references form other companies, talk to a Fisher representaitive, in short
what you call "sign up your entire company".
Of course, you could simply sign up for a user profile, get a catalog, and place an order through the
mail, but then their customer service would scrutinize it. If that order involves chemicals. I expect that
they would at the very least they would expect the order to be paid by company check, quite likely
they might also ask for more information and check up on the company before shipping out the order.
| Quote: |
I am curious to know what constitutes 'authorized'.
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It means that the person placing the order has the permission of the company to do so. This
is not further defined because the exact details are going to depend upon the policies of the
particular company. For example, one company might allow a research chemist to order her
chemicals as needed, in which case that chemist is authorized. Another company might
require the chemists to go through the purchasing department, in which case somebody in
that department is authorized.
Also, looking at the "Getting Started at fishersci.com" document for
administrators, it seems that, from Fisher's point of view, an
authorized user is someone who has so been designated by the
company management.
Basically, the impression I get is that if the company at which your
friend or relative works knows that that person has a home lab and
has no problem with that person occasionally ordering small
quantities of chemicals for home use through a company supplier,
then your plan sounds like a good way to get some quality chemicals.
Otherwise, it might not be so good an idea. For instance, suppose your
friend puts and order in for you and Fisher's customer service
department call up the company to ask whether that person is actually
and employee and whether they know that that employee is ordering
such-and-such chemicals. If your friend has not been up front with
management about their purchasing chemicals for home use using
the company's name, that could mean trouble. As someone mentioned
in a discussions on this board about sending chemical shipments to
a friend's house, you are not a real friend to someone who you place
at risk simply so that you can obtain some chemicals for yourself.
[Edited on 22-2-2008 by microcosmicus]
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chemoleo
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Of course, don't forget the Readily available Chemicals Page...
Woelen, how on earth would you get these acid chlorides??
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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chemkid
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Thank you for reading the fine print for me - sorry i didn't do it my self.  My
experience with such companies is non existent. I tried talking with someone from a some large rare earth metals company in Japan. Called me at 7:00
AM looking for me. Never went anywhere. Thankyou for your help, next time i'll try to do a better job with the fine print. By the way, how did you
find all that on their website?
Chemkid
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MagicJigPipe
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From just calling around, I had trouble finding even NaOH from local suppliers. It's pathetic. Airgas is a great place for gases (if you're
priviledged) but when I did a "sample call" about a small container of Cl2 (I know, not exactly the best thing to ask for) they got angry. Literally
angry! I mean, how fucking paranoid and bigoted must you be to actually get ANGRY when someone simply asks for small quantities of a hazardous gas?
God, that's stupid. No one gets angry when I buy 30 gallons of bleach, 30 gallons of HCl and a gas mask ... oh wait, that would require THOUGHT!
I am also disgusted by what Radio Shack has become. They barely have any good parts and when they do they're out of stock and you have to look
through that damn catalog and... well, you know.
I just want to know how "safe" it is (in the US) to buy certain things from these small suppliers. For example, I remember someone mentioning that
Na/KCN was suspicious. So, what if I ordered a few kgs if I could find some? What about iodides? Will I be labeled as a meth cook once people
figure out you can easily make I2 from them?
The only thing I know of for sure is that most mechanics will sell relatively pure MeOH to just about anyone for the purposes of biodiesel production.
NaOH is supposed to be easy to get but apparently not too many places have it around here.
Does anyone here live in the southern US? I need to find a good supplier within a day's drive from me. Or, on the off chance that someone here lives
in Arkansas (Little Rock) or New Orleans, LA, let me know if you know of any suppliers, please.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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chemkid
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Try going to an Ace Hardware etc. to find drain cleaner. You can purify from this, or use it as is (depending on your reaction) NEVER ACTUALLY ASK FOR
SODIUM HYDROXIDE. The people there will just think your a teorrist. ASk where you can find the drain cleaners.
Chemkid
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woelen
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| Quote: | Originally posted by chemoleo
Woelen, how on earth would you get these acid chlorides?? |
I ordered them from a German chemical supplier, who also delivers to resident addresses. I do not post the source here, but I will let you know
through U2U. Other members, who want the source, also may send a U2U. I will decide whether I give the source or not.
I do not post sources over here, because k3wl and cooks also are reading here.
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microcosmicus
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Look for Roebic Heavy Duty Crystal Drain Opener. If your local hardware or
plumbing store does not carry it, you could order through the following website:
http://www.castlewholesalers.com/ROEBIC-HD-CRY-Heavy-Duty-Cr...
Of course, if you are going to do mail order, you might prefer to go through one of
the following chemical suppliers:
http://www.chemicalstore.com/navigation/categorylist.asp?MyS...
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium_Hydroxide.htm
Since the chemicals they sell are technical grade (my default guess since no purity
information is posted), they are probably no better than the drain cleaner, but at least
you would be able to cushion the blow of the hazardous shipping fee by adding
some compatible chemicals such as KOH and Ca(OH)2 to your order.
Also, maybe look around to see if there happen to be any stores which
cater to soapmakers in your area.
[Edited on 23-2-2008 by microcosmicus]
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jimwig
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chemkid---- and to all those who would chem if only chem was available.
fisher education was fine before 9/11 and then their asshole puckered up and not a thing since.
i even called and spoke to a lady who told no way no how even though i had order stuff before and everything was fine.
craZy jiM wGGns
--packrat, professional bum. -- once just tired
now REtired.
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microcosmicus
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In this respect, Fisher is worse than most other educational suppliers. While none
of them sell chemicals to individuals, at least the others still sell equipment and
supplies to the general public. For instance, I just ordered some glass tubing from
Science Kit/Boreal. A nice feature of their business is that they do not add for
standard shipping. (I imagine their prices reflect this, though.) While I saw tubing
in the same quantity for less elsewhere, but when I added the cost of shipping,
the savings vanished.
By the way, a good keyword to look for is homeschool. Parents trying to teach
their kids chemistry at home are in the same boat as hobby chemists; in fact,
there is a significant intersection of the two sets ---- consider, for example,
12AX7. For instance, by typing "homeschool chemical supply" into the search
engine I came up with the following:
http://www.science-is.com/chemicals.htm
http://www.onlinesciencemall.com/Shop/Control/fp/scat/105211...
It is not clear whether the latter sells to individuals or not but seems likely.
Has anyone had experience with either of these companies? Also, it is
interesting to read stories of homeschooling parents scrounging up
chemicals in grocery and hardware stores --- deja vu all over again 
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