imidazole
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FIRST POST! Stocking my first lab - What else do I need, and at what cost?
Hello Sciencemadness! I'm proud to finally be part of the community! 
I'm setting up my first Organic/inorganic lab in my garage, I've been slowly accumulating things over about a year, snatching up deals.
Here are some of the more ambitious things I hope to make:
Hi-Glyme (polyethylene glycol dimethyl ether)
Imidazole based ionic liquids (hence the name I took)
metal salts and complexes
sodium metal (via Nurd Rage's menthol catalyzed magnesium reduction)
nice looking transition metal crystals
Urushibara nickel
guanidine
Anything fun suggested to me
I'm close to a complete lab at this point and I will start my own experiments really soon,
but before I do, I'm wondering what other things I may be missing that I'll regret not having in the future, be it reagents or equipment.
I would love to complete my lab, but like many, I lack a infinite money pit. I have money, and I want to fill my lab with all the essentials I'll
need, but I look to you all for advice on what else I'll need or regret not having, so I don't buy things I won't need until far in the future, if at
all. If there's something missing from this list, Suggestions/sources/prices for the things I want to get, or if you can think of any other first lab
advice, let me know!
Here's a list of things I have, in approximated quantities
Reagents/stuff:
Silica gel (big cat litter bag, I have a lot)
NaOH (Lbs)
Na3PO4 (1Lb)
Mg (rod, fairly small)
Lithium batteries (AA, 4x)
CaCl2 (plenty)
NaHCO3 (big ol' box)
acetone (medium tin)
aq. ammonia (~1.5L)
30% Conc. acetic acid (~1.5L)
assorted copper salts (initial experimentation)
Nickel acetate ( ~2 grams, long electrochemical coin, reduction, and crystalization)
Sulfuric acid drain cleaner (~1L)
Hcl Muriatic acid (2L)
3A molecular sieves (5lb, ebay balls)
70% denatured ethanol (~1l)
sulfur (giant bag)
silicone oil (enough for an oil bath)
MgSO4 (many pounds)
anh.(?) mgso4 (not much)
zinc (a bit from batteries)
Carbon (graphite, powder, etc)
calcium hypochlorite (some, not much)
mno2 on carbon (from batteries)
NH4NO3 (not sure, about 500mls of prills)
mineral spirits (1L)
petroleum grease
copper metal (many kinds)
Whole lot of rust
aluminum foil
borax
methanol (4 bottles of heet, ~1.5L)
90% Isopropanol
aluminum ingots (made them myself)
menthol crystals (4 oz)
gasoline
some tin salts I made (small amount)
CAN (Calcium, Ammonium, Nitrate) fertilizer (I use it for my garden but I have enough for chem too)
Equipment list:
24/40 everything
erlenmeyer flask (2x1L, 1x500ml)
assorted RBFs (multiple connections, 1L down to 250ml)
500ml pressure eq sep. funnel (I should have known that's too big!)
2X normal sep. funnels
ahlin condenser
grahm condenser
liebig condenser
vigreux column
24/40 powder funnel
gas adapter
wash bottle
stir rods
lab jack
ptfe stir bars
glass stirring sticks
assorted sealable and unsealable plastic bags
little bottles (50 ish ml, screw top)
corning 500 (I got it for $15+$15 shipping!)
corning 510 (~$70, the magnetic stirrer apparently does not work :/)
janky electrolysis equipment
aquarium pump
assorted tubing
small beakers
heat gun
keck clips
lab stands
coffee filter
funnels
GIANT watch glasses
large pyrex bowls
Things I plan to get soon:
THF (how much should I get? What should I pay?)
sodium/potassium perchlorate (which is best, how much, at what cost?)
sodium/potassium nitrate (which is best, how much, at what cost?)
should I get...
DCM?
acetonitrile?
DMF?
urea?
Benzophenone (I want to see the blue electride!)
BHT? (preventing peroxides on ethers)
nitric acid (is it cheaper to make myself?)
a sohxlet extractor?
buchner funnels/vaccum filtration stuff?
Glassware that isn't Chinese? (I got all of my RBFs and condensers from VEVOR, other stuff from amazon)
I'm so happy to be here!
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davidfetter
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You have plenty to get started, and figuring out what you can do with what you have on hand is a skill that only rewards you more as you exercise it
more.
The thing to make sure you make a habit of doing right out of the gate is ensuring that appropriate safety equipment is on hand, coming up with
procedures to use it, and possibly even practicing same.
This doesn't need to be fancy or expensive, but it does need to be, and an important piece of it is making sure people know what's going on out there
just in case you happen to be suddenly in shock, unconscious, bleeding, on fire, or some combination. Those are things whose likelihood you can
reduce, but never to zero.
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chempyre235
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Welcome to the forum!
To answer your questions:
THF is sold here for about $60/quart, and the perchlorates and nitrates should be available from fireworkscookbook.com. KNO3 is also sold OTC as
stump remover pellets for around $10 or less per pound. I think Ace Hardware and Tractor Supply carry it in stock.
As for the soxhlet extractor, I would only buy one if you want to extract a compound from biological material. I have purchased three so far, and only
one has survived the mailing service, so be aware of that. If you can find a used one, the price isn't too terrible, but a new, non-Chinese one can
cost well over $100.
I'm in the process of accumulation as well. It looks like you're well ahead of me, though. I don't have much non-glass equipment thus far, and my
chemical list is significantly shorter than yours. Hope to change that soon, though!
Happy experimenting!
[Edited on 3/5/2025 by chempyre235]
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imidazole
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Quote: Originally posted by davidfetter  | You have plenty to get started, and figuring out what you can do with what you have on hand is a skill that only rewards you more as you exercise it
more.
The thing to make sure you make a habit of doing right out of the gate is ensuring that appropriate safety equipment is on hand, coming up with
procedures to use it, and possibly even practicing same.
This doesn't need to be fancy or expensive, but it does need to be, and an important piece of it is making sure people know what's going on out there
just in case you happen to be suddenly in shock, unconscious, bleeding, on fire, or some combination. Those are things whose likelihood you can
reduce, but never to zero. |
You aren't wrong, in fact I spent a long time looking into ways I could improve my lab with things I had on hand. In fact, I managed to get a few of
my reagents from things I have on hand, like the nickel salts. I have a book of things I wanted to do and a list of things like things using what I
had, like the hi-glyme, which could function as a decent high boiling ether, for gringard reactions and the like.
I am mostly looking for things people might think of so I won't say say "I'm gonna try to do- oh wait I don't have <insert common and useful lab
reagent>, drat" For instance, if I want to do a Fridel-Crafts reaction I'll need anhydrous AlCl3, or another similar enough lewis acid, which isn't
exactly an easy thing to make in a hobby lab, leading into that safety aspect.
I didn't think to list any of my PPE but I've got a decent amount of stuff:
Fire extinguisher
sand bucket
multiple types of gloves
Lab coat (butcher's coat, same thing.)
full face respirator (honestly a very useful thing to have outside of chem stuff)
not exactly anywhere to put a eyewash station but I'm planning to set up a basic "uh-oh" table with essentials for me-related mistakes.
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Sulaiman
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Welcome
looks like a wide selection of supplies and equipment....nice
long story short:
I and many members started similarly in spirit
(many with less resources)
I see that you have a few experiments in mind and are preparing for them - an excellent approach.
When I started I bought many chemicals mentioned here, YouTube etc. without a real plan to use them.
I bought them just in case I wanted some in future.
Quite a few chemicals remain(ed) unused 
I suggest that going forward you only buy what you actually have a plan to use.
(this is very good advice, maybe I will follow it more myself 
Safe storage, clear emergency exits etc. etc. etc.
PPE is important.
Have fun, stay reasonably safe and hope to read more from you.
PS I like to test my glassware before use by boiling or distilling water.
Washing and drying glassware needs time and space considerations
Try to plan for disaster but enjoy your successes.
(Responsibly) dealing with waste should be a part of your experiments from the planning stage.
Sometimes (often) we deviate from documented procedures for various reasons.
If you have concerns with a planned experiment there are many knowledgeable members that give help and advice freely,
(probably the main reason I still like chemistry)
Personally, I hope that you video your exploits for us 
[Edited on 5-3-2025 by Sulaiman]
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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woelen
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Good to see you here finally! Welcome!
Your materials already make a nice start. I have written a web page, which may help you further in deciding what to add to your lab:
https://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/misc/homelab.htm...
[Edited on 6-3-25 by woelen]
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bnull
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Mood: Sneezing like there's no tomorrow. Stupid cat allergy.
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If your lab has a window that leads to the backyard or garden or whatever that part of your property is called, have a hose nearby. In case of
accident, you can stick your head out of the window and wash the chemicals off it. A hose with that spray attachment preferably.
A fume hood is another thing, if space allows.
A printed emergency plan in case of mishap. Assume the worse and suppose you were knocked out by something. If someone has to rescue you, they better
know what were you doing, what substances are involved etc.
Toilet paper. It is amusingly useful. I use it to take care of small spills, to remove drops from the surface of flasks, to block dust from entering
test tubes, to control the rate of evaporation of the liquid in the test tubes when I'm trying to grow some crystal, in place of paper filters when
I'm interested only in the solids.
Newspaper. I use shredded newspaper with a little water or other solvent to clean glassware. The paper used in newspapers is abrasive but not enough
to scratch glass. Add newspaper, solvent, swirl or shake the flask, and most of the dirt is gone from the walls.
Aluminum foil and PVC film to wrap things.
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teodor
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Congratulations!
Do you have funnel/flask/hose/aspirator/filter papers for vacuum filtration? I think it is the next essential tools to add to your list.
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Sulaiman
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+1 for the 'vacuum' filtration.
Crystallization and filtration are essential procedures.
The capacity and type (cloth, wool, celite, paper, fritted glass, membrane etc.) required
depend on the type and scale of your reactions.
Really 'nice to have' would be a filter funnel with a heating jacket.
All ground joints.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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davidfetter
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | +1 for the 'vacuum' filtration.
Crystallization and filtration are essential procedures.
The capacity and type (cloth, wool, celite, paper, fritted glass, membrane etc.) required
depend on the type and scale of your reactions.
Really 'nice to have' would be a filter funnel with a heating jacket.
All ground joints. |
Speaking of ground glass joints, have ways to lubricate them. To an excellent approximation, this is some high-end specialty vacuum grease, which you
will wince at each of the few times you buy it, but will fend off endless hassle and expense and, not infrequently, injury, in frozen joints. For the
cases where that grease won't work, get PTFE (plumber's) tape.
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imidazole
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Thank you all for both practical and equipment advice, Some of the things mentioned I would have never considered. I'll send you all pics of my lab
later tonight when I'm home.
For now I think I will hold off on fancy solvents until later, for now I think I'll make some diethyl ether when I need it.
I'd love to try my hand at recording my stuff, I'll look into how to make nice looking and edu-taining videos for you all
Adding to my shopping cart:
Equipment:
test tubes
drying space
vacuum filtration stuff
glass tubing
Reagents:
Conc. H2O2
Urea (cold packs, maybe?)
KNO3 (small amount)
KOH (if I still have money)
Any advice for what to look for in vacuum filtration gear? Any advice for greases? I originally just planned to use petroleum jelly.
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chempyre235
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Reagent grade urea and conc. H2O2 are available from diychemical.com, and raw urea is found relatively pure as pet-safe ice
melt.
Most sources point to silicone grease, which should be available at most hardware stores for about $5-$7 for a tube.
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Sir_Gawain
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Cheapest place I’ve found hydrogen peroxide is a gallon of 34% for $11 from Huber’s Animal Health.
Also, for chemistry, potassium perchlorate is pretty much useless due to its very low solubility. If you want to do perchlorate chem you have to get
ammonium or sodium perchlorate.
[Edited on 3-7-2025 by Sir_Gawain]
“Alchemy is trying to turn things yellow; chemistry is trying to avoid things turning yellow.” -Tom deP.
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woelen
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Aqueous perchlorate chemistry is not interesting at all. The ion is nice as a counterion for making interesting coordination complexes, because with
many coordination complexes it forms easy to separate and easy to purify salts, which can be obtained in nice dry and pure crystalline form. The
perchlorate ion itself, however, does not show any reactions in aqueous solution, at least not with the reagents the average (or even quite advanced)
home chemist can obtain. Perchlorate ion is amazingly inert at room temperature, you really need extreme reagents to reduce perchlorate ions in
aqueous solution. Even sulfate ions are more reactive (e.g. when you add zinc granules to dilute sulfuric acid, you can smell some H2S, due to
reduction of the sulfate to sulfide by the zinc, although the main reaction will be formation of hydrogen).
For pyrotechnics experiments, perchlorate can be interesting, but that's a whole different type of chemistry.
So, unless you want to do pyrotechnics, perchlorate is not something to start with, simply because it does not react at all. Potassium perchlorate is
the least interesting one for aqueous chemistry, because it only is very sparingly soluble in room-temperature water.
[Edited on 7-3-25 by woelen]
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imidazole
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Duly noted,
Though I actually came to the decision to leave perchlorates off the list since I last posted.
I actually wanted it as a counterion, but I wasn't aware that perchlorates could play so nicely. I wanted to use it as a superacid/weakly coordinating
anion, avoiding the Fluorine like in BF4- and PF6-, but decided it wasn't worth the risk of an unplanned pyrotechnics experiment.
The other reason I wanted it was to oxidize metals to make salts I actually wanted, but Since I already have some nitrates, I figured it would be
redundant. (and as I've just learned, less than viable)
That said, now knowing that it is possible to safely work with perchlorates, I may reconsider them down the line for some transition metal fun.
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Rainwater
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Have you researched your local laws and ordnances?
That would be a good next step.
And get to know people in the community who enforce these things.
Their just people, and it is much cheaper to get to know them now than later after an experiment that is questionable.
A few years ago, I got a business license, just to get the permits for a few experiments involving anhydrous ammonia.
It was clean and legal, without the permit would have been a class 2 felony 20 year max minimum of 12 months.
All for less than 5mL of product.
There are a few stories on here about the subject, but its well worth a little research at a local attorneys office. They advised me on what laws
where important, the do's and don't, for free and setup my LLC for less than $200 bucks.
To me the peace of mind was worth it
[Edited on 7-3-2025 by Rainwater]
"You can't do that" - challenge accepted
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imidazole
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I've read the sciencemadness forum before I've been a member, and on the topic I've seen some say to keep members of the community in the loop, and
others who said it wasn't a good idea, Do you have any thoughts on that? I'm not opposed to the idea, but
I'm not sure what path is the best to take. It should be noted that I live in a rural area and I have read all local laws and regulations, and know
most of the "Definitely don'ts"
Though seeing your story, I am feeling less than 100% on the nonlocal laws.
can you elaborate more on why that is a crime, more on that permit process?
| Quote: Originally posted by Rainwater | Have you researched your local laws and ordnances?
That would be a good next step.
And get to know people in the community who enforce these things.
Their just people, and it is much cheaper to get to know them now than later after an experiment that is questionable.
A few years ago, I got a business license, just to get the permits for a few experiments involving anhydrous ammonia.
It was clean and legal, without the permit would have been a class 2 felony 20 year max minimum of 12 months.
All for less than 5mL of product.
There are a few stories on here about the subject, but its well worth a little research at a local attorneys office. They advised me on what laws
where important, the do's and don't, for free and setup my LLC for less than $200 bucks.
To me the peace of mind was worth it
[Edited on 7-3-2025 by Rainwater] |
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j_sum1
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If you are asking about whether or not to stay anonymous...
Many here are a bit guarded about spilling their identity online.
As far as I know, most occasions where SM members have met in real life, it has been positive.
As for how much of your hobby you allow to be known by neighbours and your local community... That depends more on your community and your own
dispositions than it does on any particulars of hobby chemistry.
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Rainwater
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Dont be to worried, it just take a little due diligence.
And from a legal standpoint, so long as your legitimately practicing a hobby and not making precursors or overly dangerous substances, the only legal
requirement may be proper disposal of materials, including gasses. But best to ask an attorney.
Search for chemical engineering attorney. I use the guy one of my plants recommended.
So the big take aways are federal laws (easy and well published) and local laws or ordnances (not well published and youll probably have to go poking
around the court house, which can be suspicious so use an attorney)
The feds have the atf and epa, they publish list and there are different categories, class 1 is bye bye, your gone for 20 years. meth, precursors and
stuff no person on earth has any business making due to health or environmental consequences.
Anyway the attorney will be able to give you the run down.
Its quick money for them and will take about 90 minutes to go through.
So in the state of Georgia, paulding county, anhydrous ammonia is only allowed to be possessed by a business. There is no wording what limits the
quantity.
Cobb county (head east one county) has no law about this, so its subject to state and federal law that says dont use it to make illegal drugs and
transport it under hasmat protocol. Nothing about being a business.
So where my shop is, without an LLC, would be a felony, but in my basement without a LLC, only an age restriction, perfectly legal. In the sate of
georgia you have to be 18 to be in "control" of a hazardous material or object, without a permit.
Welcome to the stupid world of adulting.
Edit:
I should also mention the little part about being a business and having to submit to inspections(searches) of hazardous material storage and
processes. To ensure compliance with the feds and fire department.
But in full disclosure I recreate some serious industrial processes, high pressure, reactive reagents, high temperatures. And got a stack of permits
just to cover my !@@. Their free here. Just takes a visit from the chief sometimes
[Edited on 8-3-2025 by Rainwater]
"You can't do that" - challenge accepted
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Dr.Bob
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In the US, it is most likely best to stay quiet, as many places will invent rules if asked for them. Most normal chemicals are not regulated locally,
and the biggest issue is being careful to dispose of things safely. Often that includes neutralizing waste to a pH near 7, and not pouring heavy
metals in to the sewage. A few states have more rules, but most are designed for meth and bomb making, so if you are not doing those, there is
little risk.
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Mateo_swe
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I think you have a lot of equipment and chemicals to start your experiments.
Some things to have in mind is safety gear.
Fire extingisher, fire blanket, a bucket of sand (good to put out fires) and some means to wash off chemicals in case of an emergency, a labcoat,
gloves and safety glasses.
Also some fume handling/ventilation is needed if you going to preform experiments inside.
Some other things needed is a hotplate stirrer, maybe some heating mantle sleeves and a variac (if you know some electronic safety).
Some buchner funnels and some small vacuum pump motors (cheap on aution sites) and hoses for filtration.
I think you dont need to stock up on all things before starting. Just start you first experiments and get the needed chemicals and equipment as you
need them.
Eventually you will have more gear and chemicals than you need.
I suggest you dont advertise openly that you do chemical experiments unless you absolutely trust them.
It´s more ok in a forum setting like this as nobody really know who you are.
It can attract both the wrong people like criminals and also some over cautious individuals may call the police even you do nothing wrong.
And this can actually get you into trouble with the law as the law is judged differently by different persons and some are stupid.
I hope you have fun and learn a lot, chemistry is exciting.
Happy experimenting
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