Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Suppliers

Suppliers

chemkid - 6-2-2008 at 12:44

I have searched the board a couple of times, and searched the internet, maybe i use all the wrong key words, but i having trouble finding suppliers who will:

(1) Sell to me
(2) Have a large stock
(3) prices are realistic
(4) Sell in 500g quanities (or even less)

Perhaps we could compile a list of sorts?

I'll start....
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/
The selection of reageants is not great, the prices are rather high on chemicals, the glassware is basic but well priced

Chemkid

[Edited on 6-2-2008 by chemkid]

-jeffB - 6-2-2008 at 13:20

hometrainingtools.com looks pretty good to me. Yeah, the stuff's expensive per gram, but in my "chemistry set" days I would have much preferred to pay $5 for an ounce of whatever instead of $20 for a pound of it. (Actually, it was more like 35 cents for an ounce at the hobby store vs. $2 for a pound from Sargent-Welch. But I digress.)

For many other needs, I have to suggest eBay. They haven't managed to ban everything yet, and there are several "eBay Stores" that carry a pretty wide range of stuff. Prices vary.

If you're a minor, you probably won't have much luck anywhere. That's why it's important to cultivate a good relationship with your parents and your science teachers -- especially your science teachers, who may be able to let you order things through the school. That's how I managed to get mineral acids and various other interesting reagents while I was in elementary and middle school.

microcosmicus - 6-2-2008 at 13:35

While they may not meet all your criteria, here are three places which at least
satisfy criteria 1 and 4:

http://www.chemicalstore.com/index.asp?MySessionID=349-53639...

Not to big a selection (but they are just starting out in business) and some
of the items seem pricy. For me, the big advantage is that they are down the
street from me, so no waiting for orders or paying high shipping fees for
dangerous chemicals (be your own hazmat driver). Since their labels are not
really informative, I may ask them about the grade of what they sell the next time
I go over there and let you all know the response I get. Also, not listed on their
website but evident when walks into the store, they have a fair stock of used apparatus.

http://secure.sciencecompany.com/index.aspx

I haven't bought from them yet, but they look worthy of consideration.

http://store01.prostores.com/servlet/thescienceshop/StoreFro...

Another link from my bookmarks. Unfortunately, since they are located in
California, they have to report purchases over $100 to DEA and furthermore
require two forms of identification from customers.

How I long for the days (not that distant in the past --- 15 or 20 years ago)
when one could walk into the local model store and pick up Perfect chemicals
and glassware! Or, for that matter, have a reasonable selection of
electronic components at the local Radio Shack (not to mention the
mom-and-pop electronic shops).

chloric1 - 6-2-2008 at 14:05

Quote:

Originally posted by microcosmicus
How I long for the days (not that distant in the past --- 15 or 20 years ago)
when one could walk into the local model store and pick up Perfect chemicals
and glassware! Or, for that matter, have a reasonable selection of
electronic components at the local Radio Shack (not to mention the
mom-and-pop electronic shops).

Or even better one pharmacy on the near southside stocked every drugstore chemical you could think of. All in the same isle was, 1,1,1-Trichloroethane,water glass, copper sulfate, potassium permanganate, camphor, bismuth subnitrate, sulfur etc etc and this was last seen in 1994!

woelen - 6-2-2008 at 14:38

There also is another side. Although locally, the number of chemicals which you can obtain has been reduced drastically, with the help of internet, one can obtain materials which I never could obtain as a young boy 25 years ago.

At the age of 17 (now 25 years ago), I simply walked into a drugstore and purchased stuff like:
- KClO3
- KNO3
- KMnO4
- S
- Na2S2O3
- Na2SO3
- solvents like CHCl=CCl2, CCl4, acetone, ether.
- several metal salts (copper, nickel, cobalt)
This unfortunately is past. Locally there only are few chemicals, only the most benign ones.

But the other side is, now I have obtained really rare stuff through web-suppliers. Just to name a few:
- SOCl2
- SO2Cl2
- CH3COCl
- NbCl5
- H2PtCl6
- HgCl2
- Se
- Te
- SeO2
- Ta(OH)5
- RuCl3
- IrCl4
- and many many more

So, for the starting chemistry hobbyist, who wants basic stuff like KNO3 for fun pyro experiments, or some metal salts for nice precipitates and redox reactions, things have become more difficult. For the more advanced hobbyist, who has found his sources over the years, many new possibilities have appeared, which only could be dreamt of 25 years ago. As a private person, I never could obtain any of the chems, mentioned above, when I had to do with the local drugstores.

chloric1 - 6-2-2008 at 15:49

Yes woelen you make a valid point but even with the assistance of the information age, the general consensus is leaning against such a hobby. You can order things not available before but many of the more spectacular experiments(energetics,thermite etc) have to be done in absolute privacy or at odd hours of the night to avoid prosecution and persecution.
Whats more, I discovered mail order chem catalogs around 1991 and I remember acids and oxidizers had only $5 hazmat charge. :mad:

Now its at LEAST $25-$30 and often more than the cost of the reagent(technical 93% H2SO4 or example).

As far as collecting sources for materials over the years, over here sources disappear as fast as new ones take there place. I feel vulnerable ordering excesssively from straight lab suppliers for obvious reasons. I prefer to obtain many chemicals from more discrete sources.

undead_alchemist - 6-2-2008 at 16:09

Quote:

Originally posted by chloric1
Whats more, I discovered mail order chem catalogs around 1991 and I remember acids and oxidizers had only $5 hazmat charge. :mad:

Now its at LEAST $25-$30 and often more than the cost of the reagent(technical 93% H2SO4 or example).

Well 500ml amounts can be shipped with no hazmat fee, well at least here in Canada.

Magpie - 6-2-2008 at 16:31

Although not chem suppliers per se do not forget pottery, photographic, and swimming pool suppliers.

from microcosmicus:

"Or, for that matter, have a reasonable selection of
electronic components at the local Radio Shack (not to mention the mom-and-pop electronic shops)."

Isn't that the truth. It seems they now mostly just want to sell electronic gadgets and barely cater to the hobbyist. I thought I had found a mom-and-pop electronics shop but when I tried to ask some technical questions they basically threw me out.

[Edited on by Magpie]

pantone159 - 6-2-2008 at 19:31

Quote:

Or, for that matter, have a reasonable selection of
electronic components at the local Radio Shack (not to mention the mom-and-pop electronic shops).

Fry's seems to have some selection of electronic components. Even some chems, 99+% iPrOH, FeCl3 solutions, some other things too. They even sell Erlenmeyer flasks which is definitely not legal here!

497 - 6-2-2008 at 19:43

Hah you think its hard to find good suppliers where you are? Try finding ones that will ship to Alaska! Its pretty well impossible for anything other than really inert stuff... i think Unitednuclear might but their selection sucks. If anyone knows of any I would greatly like to hear of them.

Magpie - 6-2-2008 at 19:53

There are no Fry's in my area and they show only a few components on the internet.

I was able to find a breadboard, a project box, and the resistors at my local Radio Schack. But for the resistors I will have to place 3ea 10k ohm in an array to get 15k ohm as they did not have this.

Allied Electronics, Newark, and Digi-Key all have massive selections of components but often have minimum order quantities in the hundreds or even thousands. It took me many hours of searching to find 3ea capacitors, 1 potentiometer, 1 choke, 1 fuse, 1 fuse holder, and 1 quadrac to my specifications. Then there's the minimum $ charge and the freight. But at least with the internet you can get what you want.

[Edited on by Magpie]

woelen - 7-2-2008 at 00:00

Quote:

I prefer to obtain many chemicals from more discrete sources.

Yes, that is the best way to find chems. Over the last few years, I found it remarkable, how many rare chems I could obtain from such discrete sources. My best sources are/were private eBay sellers (not the big powersellers), who sell just some not too special stuff on eBay (stuff like Mg-ribbon, red prussiate of potash, sodium sulfite) and then I make a small order at such a seller. I now already have had three times, that after such an order, they contacted me (by email) that they have more chems, but are not willing to sell them on eBay. In this way I obtained many of the chemicals, mentioned above. I even obtained some UO2(NO3)2 and Th(NO3)4, which are amazingly hard to get from a real chemical supplier like Aldrich, Merck or Acros. Often those chemicals from such 'private' sellers are very old. I have pre-war bottles with the most obscure reagents still in perfect condition (e.g. zirconyl nitrate, cesium nitrate, uranyl formiate, selenous acid), and much more stuff from the 1970's from the former GDR (former Eastern Germany).

bfesser - 7-2-2008 at 10:13

In the Twin Cities area (Minnesota, around St. Paul and Minneapolis) there are three <strong>Ax-Man Surplus</strong> stores. One is in Fridley, one in St. Louis Park, and one in St. Paul on University Ave. (the largest selection). Anyone living in the area who hasn't been there, GO NOW!

Here's their website, which hasn't been updated in nearly an internet millenia -- http://www.ax-man.com/

They have electronics components, glassware, motors, fans, wire, tubing, rope, and many things you would never imagine even existed. They have no chemicals, but their glassware selection is always changing (as it's surplus), and sometimes you find great things that you'd <em>never</em> be able to get anywhere else.

[edit]
I just picked up a flawless 23 cm Coors desiccator plate there yesterday, for $1.95!

[Edited on 2/8/08 by bfesser]

[edit] Four stores. They've had one in Crystal for a couple years.

[Edited on 12.12.13 by bfesser]

chemkid - 21-2-2008 at 17:19

Has anyone ever ordered from Fisher Scientific Education?
http://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/BROWSEHIERARCHY?catalogI...

Their selection on chemicals didn't seem bad at all. Nor quantities, nor prices. Also i didn't see anything preventing orders from individuals as long as you can fill in a company name etc.

CHemkid

microcosmicus - 21-2-2008 at 18:30

Quote:

Also i didn't see anything preventing orders from individuals as long as you can fill in a company name etc.

It is just me, or is there a blatant contradiction in that sentence?

From their terms of service:

Quote:

Access to Web site procurement services (the "Service") is available only to businesses and their authorized employees, agents and/or contractors (collectively, "Subscribers") who register with Distributor by submitting a Web site Registration Form and is limited to those Subscribers who are authorized to form legally binding contracts under applicable law on behalf of the businesses or organizations they represent.

http://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/CMSTATIC?store=Scientifi...

chemkid - 22-2-2008 at 07:30

Well yes, their is a bit of a contradiction there. However, many things simply reqire a company name and its usally not hard if you have a friend, parent, sibling etc. whose company name you can use to have the package sent to.

Nothing in the terms and conditions seems to prevent an individual associated with a company to order as opposed to needing to register or sign up your entire company. I am curious to know what constitutes 'authorized'.

Chemkid

microcosmicus - 22-2-2008 at 10:10

Quote:

Nothing in the terms and conditions seems to prevent an individual associated with a company to order
as opposed to needing to register or sign up your entire company

If you read the fine print on the side of the registration page

https://www.fishersci.com/wps/portal/NEWUSER?independent=YES...

, it also says

Quote:

If you do not have a Fisher Account, you can still create your user profile, but you will not have access to
online order placement, your contract pricing or real-time product availability. Your orders will be
reviewed by Customer service before processing.

So all you can do using just a company name to fill out the form is get a user profile which doesn't
let you do very much. As for accounts, if you download the application form for an account, you will
see that it asks for a heck of a lot more than just a company name and address. For instance,
you would also need to provide year of incorporation, bank account number, Dun and Bradstreet
number, obtain three references form other companies, talk to a Fisher representaitive, in short
what you call "sign up your entire company".

Of course, you could simply sign up for a user profile, get a catalog, and place an order through the
mail, but then their customer service would scrutinize it. If that order involves chemicals. I expect that
they would at the very least they would expect the order to be paid by company check, quite likely
they might also ask for more information and check up on the company before shipping out the order.

Quote:

I am curious to know what constitutes 'authorized'.

It means that the person placing the order has the permission of the company to do so. This
is not further defined because the exact details are going to depend upon the policies of the
particular company. For example, one company might allow a research chemist to order her
chemicals as needed, in which case that chemist is authorized. Another company might
require the chemists to go through the purchasing department, in which case somebody in
that department is authorized.

Also, looking at the "Getting Started at fishersci.com" document for
administrators, it seems that, from Fisher's point of view, an
authorized user is someone who has so been designated by the
company management.

Basically, the impression I get is that if the company at which your
friend or relative works knows that that person has a home lab and
has no problem with that person occasionally ordering small
quantities of chemicals for home use through a company supplier,
then your plan sounds like a good way to get some quality chemicals.
Otherwise, it might not be so good an idea. For instance, suppose your
friend puts and order in for you and Fisher's customer service
department call up the company to ask whether that person is actually
and employee and whether they know that that employee is ordering
such-and-such chemicals. If your friend has not been up front with
management about their purchasing chemicals for home use using
the company's name, that could mean trouble. As someone mentioned
in a discussions on this board about sending chemical shipments to
a friend's house, you are not a real friend to someone who you place
at risk simply so that you can obtain some chemicals for yourself.

[Edited on 22-2-2008 by microcosmicus]

chemoleo - 22-2-2008 at 13:45

Of course, don't forget the Readily available Chemicals Page...

Woelen, how on earth would you get these acid chlorides??

chemkid - 22-2-2008 at 17:05

Thank you for reading the fine print for me - sorry i didn't do it my self.

My experience with such companies is non existent. I tried talking with someone from a some large rare earth metals company in Japan. Called me at 7:00 AM looking for me. Never went anywhere. Thankyou for your help, next time i'll try to do a better job with the fine print. By the way, how did you find all that on their website?

Chemkid

MagicJigPipe - 23-2-2008 at 01:48

From just calling around, I had trouble finding even NaOH from local suppliers. It's pathetic. Airgas is a great place for gases (if you're priviledged) but when I did a "sample call" about a small container of Cl2 (I know, not exactly the best thing to ask for) they got angry. Literally angry! I mean, how fucking paranoid and bigoted must you be to actually get ANGRY when someone simply asks for small quantities of a hazardous gas? God, that's stupid. No one gets angry when I buy 30 gallons of bleach, 30 gallons of HCl and a gas mask ... oh wait, that would require THOUGHT!

I am also disgusted by what Radio Shack has become. They barely have any good parts and when they do they're out of stock and you have to look through that damn catalog and... well, you know.

I just want to know how "safe" it is (in the US) to buy certain things from these small suppliers. For example, I remember someone mentioning that Na/KCN was suspicious. So, what if I ordered a few kgs if I could find some? What about iodides? Will I be labeled as a meth cook once people figure out you can easily make I2 from them?

The only thing I know of for sure is that most mechanics will sell relatively pure MeOH to just about anyone for the purposes of biodiesel production. NaOH is supposed to be easy to get but apparently not too many places have it around here.

Does anyone here live in the southern US? I need to find a good supplier within a day's drive from me. Or, on the off chance that someone here lives in Arkansas (Little Rock) or New Orleans, LA, let me know if you know of any suppliers, please.

chemkid - 23-2-2008 at 05:45

Try going to an Ace Hardware etc. to find drain cleaner. You can purify from this, or use it as is (depending on your reaction) NEVER ACTUALLY ASK FOR SODIUM HYDROXIDE. The people there will just think your a teorrist. ASk where you can find the drain cleaners.

Chemkid

woelen - 23-2-2008 at 10:46

Quote:

Originally posted by chemoleo
Woelen, how on earth would you get these acid chlorides??

I ordered them from a German chemical supplier, who also delivers to resident addresses. I do not post the source here, but I will let you know through U2U. Other members, who want the source, also may send a U2U. I will decide whether I give the source or not.

I do not post sources over here, because k3wl and cooks also are reading here.

microcosmicus - 23-2-2008 at 11:46

Look for Roebic Heavy Duty Crystal Drain Opener. If your local hardware or
plumbing store does not carry it, you could order through the following website:

http://www.castlewholesalers.com/ROEBIC-HD-CRY-Heavy-Duty-Cr...

Of course, if you are going to do mail order, you might prefer to go through one of
the following chemical suppliers:

http://www.chemicalstore.com/navigation/categorylist.asp?MyS...
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium_Hydroxide.htm

Since the chemicals they sell are technical grade (my default guess since no purity
information is posted), they are probably no better than the drain cleaner, but at least
you would be able to cushion the blow of the hazardous shipping fee by adding
some compatible chemicals such as KOH and Ca(OH)2 to your order.

Also, maybe look around to see if there happen to be any stores which
cater to soapmakers in your area.

[Edited on 23-2-2008 by microcosmicus]

jimwig - 23-2-2008 at 13:29

chemkid---- and to all those who would chem if only chem was available.

fisher education was fine before 9/11 and then their asshole puckered up and not a thing since.

i even called and spoke to a lady who told no way no how even though i had order stuff before and everything was fine.

microcosmicus - 24-2-2008 at 01:18

In this respect, Fisher is worse than most other educational suppliers. While none
of them sell chemicals to individuals, at least the others still sell equipment and
supplies to the general public. For instance, I just ordered some glass tubing from
Science Kit/Boreal. A nice feature of their business is that they do not add for
standard shipping. (I imagine their prices reflect this, though.) While I saw tubing
in the same quantity for less elsewhere, but when I added the cost of shipping,
the savings vanished.

By the way, a good keyword to look for is homeschool. Parents trying to teach
their kids chemistry at home are in the same boat as hobby chemists; in fact,
there is a significant intersection of the two sets ---- consider, for example,
12AX7. For instance, by typing "homeschool chemical supply" into the search
engine I came up with the following:

http://www.science-is.com/chemicals.htm

http://www.onlinesciencemall.com/Shop/Control/fp/scat/105211...

It is not clear whether the latter sells to individuals or not but seems likely.
Has anyone had experience with either of these companies? Also, it is
interesting to read stories of homeschooling parents scrounging up
chemicals in grocery and hardware stores --- deja vu all over again

Nicodem - 24-2-2008 at 02:26

I think the reason why most individuals fail to order chemicals is because they try to order them directly instead of going trough local resellers. Even most universities and some industries order the chemicals used in research trough resellers rather than directly from Sigma-Acros-Alfa-Abcr-Merck-Fisher-etc (buying in bulk is another thing). Now imagine an individual trying to put an order at one of these giants. Even if they don't just laugh you off as some kind of an annoying fly, they would still never risk selling potentially hazardous stuff to weird clueless individuals. Why would they risk legal complications for a couple of bucks only?

I never had problems buying chemicals as an individual as I always respected the idiotic commercial laws about going trough local resellers. After all, when you want to buy a beer you don't go to buy it in the brewery, don't you? You got to buy it trough resellers (like in a store or pub). The only annoyance when buying the chemicals as an individual is to agree on the method of payment since you obviously can not pay in cash. But these things are highly variable from one country to another (level of paranoia, legislation, etc.), from one reseller to the other (some simply don't see it worth bothering with small orders)…

Jor - 24-2-2008 at 10:38

Yes, I can order from Merck/Fisher/Acros/Baker as well, and I do it through a local reseller.

panziandi - 24-2-2008 at 14:46

To quote Microcosmicus above:

"In this respect, Fisher is worse than most other educational suppliers. While none
of them sell chemicals to individuals, at least the others still sell equipment and
supplies to the general public."

Indeed possibly the best example of how pathetic Fisher are, last year I contacted Buchi UK for a replacement gasket for my rotary evaporator. They told me exactly what I needed and told me to use Fisher as they were cheaper (knowing I was private individual too, I keep no secrets!) Fisher refused point blank and I subsequently emailed their customer services complaining that I can understand not selling chemicals and syringes to the public, but rubber gaskets are just the most harmless thing going ... like filter papers too!

Anyway, Buchi UK were more than happy to sell me the same item but for a slightly higher price no problems at all! Cheers Buchi!

pantone159 - 24-2-2008 at 15:49

Quote:

Originally posted by microcosmicus
http://www.onlinesciencemall.com/Shop/Control/fp/scat/105211...

It is not clear whether the latter sells to individuals or not but seems likely.
Has anyone had experience with either of these companies?

I have bought stuff from Online Science Mall, mostly equipment but I think a few chems. They have small amounts, but if that is all you need that is fine.

I think they have another name on eBay btw.

microcosmicus - 24-2-2008 at 15:58

Sure, Nicodem and Jor, one should buy small quantities from a retailer rather than from
a wholesaler or manufacturer. That, unfortunately, is not the real problem. Here, in the United
States, thanks to liability issues, drug laws, and terrorism laws, most resellers are not
selling to individuals anymore and that stores which sell to individuals no longer carry
chemicals.

Ten years ago I could do as Jor does and order high-end name-brand chemicals
through a reseller, but now these same resellers will no longer do business with me.
(See, for example. jimwig's post about doing business with Fisher, In addition to
their giant plant, they also have a retail arm which sells small quantities.)
As you said, universities and businesses also buy from small quantities from retailers.
Given that hobbyists were never likely more than a few percent of their total sales
anyway, the mainstream scientific retailers decided that it was more trouble than it
is worth to sell chemicals to individuals due to the new laws and the risk of jeopardizing
their good standing with the NACD. That only leaves one with a few fringe retailers.
There are a handful of companies by hobbyists for hobbyists like United Nuclear and
CR Scientific as well as a few holdovers from the good old days like The Science
Company. There are companies which cater to homeschoolers and science fair projects.
Other than that and individuals with chemicals for sale, all we really have here in the U.S.
is a gray market of low-key, no-questions-asked retailers. I really don't want to get
involved with this gray market because of the risk of guilt by association --- in the
current legal climate, if I happen to buy something from a sleazy supplier who makes
much of his profits from drug and bomb cooks, I could all to easily be mistaken for a
c(r)ook and get in big trouble. Hence all the interest in finding up-front above-board
retailers which sell chemicals to individuals.

Carrying your analogy further, the situation here is like if I walked into a liquor store
to get some beer and was asked if I had a restaurant license. This extends beyond
scientific retailers. For instance, a while back, Nicodem, you asked:

Quote:

Isn't sulfuric acid available in hardware stores in the USA or something changed due to some new regulations? In EU anyone can buy diluted H2SO4 as used to refill car batteries.

Recently, when I went to auto shops, I could no longer find H2SO4 available. From what
I understand, nowadays battery acid is only sold to licensed mechanics. The only form
available in hardware stores (or most anywhere else) is the drain cleaner, which is full of
crud. That is why the American members of this list are so preoccupied with trying to
use and purify drain cleaner as well as what Polverone calls "grandfather's chemistry" ---
reviving old methods of manufacture to produce common chemicals which are no
longer available to the general public.

Certainly, price is not much of a reason for obtaining chemicals by extraction and purification
from household products --- it often costs at least as much to do this as it would to buy a proper
chemical reagent were one readily available. To be sure, rolling ones own chemicals can be
an interesting hobby in its own right and doing it well requires a fair degree of chemical
sophistication. However, not only can this be daunting for the newcomer, but the time
spent reading labels, tracking down suppliers, etc. could have been spent doing experiments.
Were it not for necessity, I would not be putting so much of my time and energy into this activity.

If this sounds bizarre to folks like Nocodem, Jor, and W. Oelen who are blessed to be
located in countries where chemicals are available, I understand because it is still
sinking in to me. Not all that long ago, when I was in school, I had a home lab and
could buy equipment and common chemicals at the local hobby store and order
more chemicals from the catalogues of companies which supplied the school lab.
A decade later, I wind up settling down and think to take chemistry up again as a
hobby. (The decision was influenced in good part by finding this list and lurking on it
for a while.) It was quite a shock to me when I first found out that scientific suppliers
would no longer sell to me. It kind of make me feel like Rip van Winkle waking up
to find that my old familiar home had changed completely with the passage of time
and I still find myself pinching myself to make sure this is not some crazy dream.

Magpie - 24-2-2008 at 16:01

I have bought equipment from Fisher in the past, although it's been at least 2 years now. I would call on their toll free number, tell them what I wanted, and give my credit card information. The only problems I had is that it seems like they would screw up every order. So they just became my supplier of last resort for that reason. Maybe their policies have changed recently toward non-institutional customers.

conducter - 24-2-2008 at 18:15

i swear i have the hardest time finding Boron tribromide, i just want to experiment with this in some demethylation chemistry for college, but i mean i cant seem to find it.
Its not illegal, its not listed or anything.

Does anybody have ANY hint on where i can get this? hell email me if u dont wanna say it on the boards. id really really appreciate it.

not_important - 24-2-2008 at 23:32

here

http://www.pfaltzandbauer.com/cgi-bin/lookup.pl?type=chemnam...

and there

http://www.spectrumchemical.com/retail/product.asp?catalog%5...

and even at

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search/ProductDetail/ALD...

microcosmicus - 25-2-2008 at 18:43

I am quite glad to report that I can retract my statement about H2SO4. Today, I finally
located and bought some battery acid at an R. S. Strauss auto store. (Other auto
stores I tried did not have it or did not want to sell it to me.) Also, it is apparently not
that easy to locate for others as well because someone from Canada
just started a thread about purifying drain cleaner.

MagicJigPipe - 25-2-2008 at 19:36

Battery acid is the purist form of H2SO4 that can be obtained locally in the US in my experiences. Unfortunately, even now it is hard to find that. There are only 2 places in my local area (that I know of) that still sell it. This is so stupid. I'd better stop before I get worked up again.

Oh yeah, it's really expensive, too. $5 a quart (about a liter) for ~35% H2SO4.

That's pretty damn high for one of the most produced chemicals in the world.

497 - 25-2-2008 at 20:04

Apparently I am fortunate in that respect, I just got 5 gallons of battery acid for $15. I was very happy. They (Napa) also had quart sizes for about $5 but thats just a rip off. Battery acid is nice and pure, but its sure a pain to distill up to concentration. I wish I live 50 years ago when you could go down the the local chemical store and buy a kilo of KCN no questions asked...

MagicJigPipe - 25-2-2008 at 20:18

There are several Napa stores around here and all they have is the quart sizes. I can only assume it has something to do with the mass hysteria I like to call the "meth scare".

microcosmicus - 25-2-2008 at 22:45

Where I am, the Napa stores went out of business. I too only found the smaller size.
As for why, meth cooks and terrorists are part of the story, I expect liability and safe
storage issues are another part, but there is also the fact that most people nowadays
do not bother to replenish the electrolyte but replace their batteries. To a
large extent, the last
is due to better designed batteries which do not need as much attention, especially
sealed batteries.

[Edited on 26-2-2008 by microcosmicus]

referral issues

chemrox - 25-2-2008 at 23:31

We work with a number of mainstream suplliers and some others that are a lot smaller and work extra hard to get better proces for us. In the current regulatory climate referring folks to the smaller companies is a little like passing on login information for libraries and journals. I wouldn't want to mistakenly refer someone who would get my guys in trouble. The sites that supply inorganics and cork and tube glassware are no problem but these are of very little use to us. At least one of the smaller outfits visit here and would make contact when, where and to whom he felt confident with.

Sandmeyer - 26-2-2008 at 12:50

Quote:

Originally posted by conducter
i swear i have the hardest time finding Boron tribromide, i just want to experiment with this in some demethylation chemistry for college, but i mean i cant seem to find it.
Its not illegal, its not listed or anything.

Does anybody have ANY hint on where i can get this? hell email me if u dont wanna say it on the boards. id really really appreciate it.

If what you are saying is true, then you should have BBr3 in the fridge at your "college". But if you want to cleave an aryl-methyl ether at home, then there are numerous methods that doesn't involve the use of BBr3, you have obviously not searched the fucking search engines, or else you wouldn't ask about BBr3.

Sandmeyer - 26-2-2008 at 13:00

Quote:

Originally posted by chemkid
I have searched the board a couple of times, and searched the internet, maybe i use all the wrong key words, but i having trouble finding suppliers who will:

(1) Sell to me
(2) Have a large stock
(3) prices are realistic
(4) Sell in 500g quanities (or even less)

Perhaps we could compile a list of sorts?

I'll start....
http://www.hometrainingtools.com/
The selection of reageants is not great, the prices are rather high on chemicals, the glassware is basic but well priced

Chemkid

[Edited on 6-2-2008 by chemkid]

When I experimented at home I got a lot of basic stuff (like solvents, salts, common reagents) via local pharmacy, they can order from the big brand$. They asked for name - but never ID

muriaticacid - 26-2-2008 at 17:53

yea the other day i went over to Apex Pharmacy in the US and to my disbelief I found that they sold KNO3, sulfur, ammonium alum and glycerine. After all these years looking around at pharmacies i found one that sold all this stuff (unfortunately i just got a bunch of KNO3 so didn't get the joy of buying it from the pharmacy)

Better still, I asked if they had any citric acid they said no but they could order it for me. I leave my name and 2 days later i have 500g of citric acid for 8 bucks. the name on the package is Medisca which is a pharmaceutical compounding company (didn't even know that was still done) next time I'll see what else i can get from them.

MagicJigPipe - 26-2-2008 at 20:10

It is extremely common for the older "mom and pop" type stores to have KNO3, Sulfur, alum, glycerol, salicylic acid, "water glass" and a bunch of other more obscure chemicals.

Pharmacies, however, are outrageously expensive. I tried calling around for some KI today (I found out that KI is cheaper than NaI which baffled me). I found a couple of pharmacies that were willing to order it for me at the UNBELIEVABLE price of $40-$50 per 100g USP. I can get ACS Reagent grade KI for cheaper than that on Ebay! In fact, the ACS grade is HALF that price! They wanted like $40 for a pound of citric acid as well!

Tomorrow I will call around for some phthalic acid. I don't want to ask for all these things at once because they might think I'm a terrorist or something. Most pharmacies couldn't believe that I wanted pure KI powder instead of pills or liquid solution. One pharmacist even had the audacity to ask, "What do you NEED that for?" I hate when people say that. I would normally ask, "What do you NEED that $50,000, 4 ton SUV for?" Exactly, I would say. Exactly.

muriaticacid - 27-2-2008 at 12:19

does anybody know what grade the KI they sell for human radiation protection is?

MagicJigPipe - 27-2-2008 at 22:50

Technically (legally?), it has to be USP grade.

-jeffB - 28-2-2008 at 06:53

Quote:

Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
I tried calling around for some KI today (I found out that KI is cheaper than NaI which baffled me).

I've assumed the expensive part is the I content. A kg of KI contains 765g of I; a kg of NaI contains 847g of I.

Last time I checked, Skylighter sold KI for something like US$15/lb. I've never seen it close to that cheap anywhere else. I don't think they ship outside the US, though.

hg23 - 31-3-2008 at 03:43

Quote:

Isn't sulfuric acid available in hardware stores in the USA or something changed due to some new regulations? In EU anyone can buy diluted H2SO4 as used to refill car batteries.

here in sweden battery acid (37% H2SO4) has been banned (you need a special permit to buy it) since 2001 i think..

jarynth - 7-10-2008 at 14:30

What did they replace it with in the batteries? Akvavit?