Sciencemadness Discussion Board - UK Newspapers on Sulfuric Acid

UK Newspapers on Sulfuric Acid

Hexavalent - 4-7-2014 at 07:26

I was unfortunate enough to come across this article in a UK newspaper today, showing how sulfuric acid is occasionally used as a street weapon and exaggerating how easy it can be to obtain. It is somewhat worrying, as our sources are dwindling as it is. Another problem is that this is the Daily Sun, hardly the newspaper read by academics; many people who read this are inclined to believe and fear what it tells them.

Hexavalent - 4-7-2014 at 07:28

I apologise that some of the text isn't entirely clear, but the main body of the article is legible.

[Edited on 4-7-2014 by Hexavalent]

Amos - 4-7-2014 at 11:18

Right, let's just completely forget the huge number of legal and necessary uses of sulfuric acid. "The Evil Legacy" made me shake my head in wonder. In the US, we may let lunatics run amok with semi-auto assault rifles, but at least most chemicals are still obtainable.

Texium - 4-7-2014 at 11:56

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now

Right, let's just completely forget the huge number of legal and necessary uses of sulfuric acid. "The Evil Legacy" made me shake my head in wonder. In the US, we may let lunatics run amok with semi-auto assault rifles, but at least most chemicals are still obtainable.

Yeah really. I also doubt that acid attacks are really as common as this paper claims. It's all a bunch of exaggerated hype to make money for the paper and stir people up with sensational press. Not that what happened to the people mentioned in the paper isn't horrible. It is. But it's not a reason to put strict regulations on sulfuric acid, that's for sure.

DraconicAcetate - 4-7-2014 at 12:00

I think the Daily Fail is more interesting to read on lysergic acid, actually.

Amos - 4-7-2014 at 12:03

I have heard pretty frequently of this kind of thing happening in the middle east though; An angry male throws sulfuric acid on a woman's face basically with premise of disfiguring her forever so that she can never pursue the opposite sex. So maybe this article is just another facet of the xenophobia that is rampant in the western world today.

Brain&Force - 4-7-2014 at 12:17

A 1000% rise is insignificant if the basal rate of occurrence is insignificant itself.

And please note that knives can be just as disfiguring, and severe knife attacks can also put you at risk for a stroke (and don't forget, they're more likely to be fatal). So we should ban all knives, including butterknives and plastic knives. Anyone with me on this?

I've seen many, many, many cases of these kinds of "X IS SCARY, BAN IT OR AVOID IT!!1!!!!!1!!11!!111!!one!!!eleven!!eleventyone!!!" headlines. It's even worse on talk shows.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=20660

[edit] DraconicAcetate, you couldn't possibly be related to our own DraconicAcid, could you?

[Edited on 4.7.2014 by Brain&Force]

Texium - 4-7-2014 at 12:53

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force

A 1000% rise is insignificant if the basal rate of occurrence is insignificant itself.

And please note that knives can be just as disfiguring, and severe knife attacks can also put you at risk for a stroke (and don't forget, they're more likely to be fatal). So we should ban all knives, including butterknives and plastic knives. Anyone with me on this?

I've seen many, many, many cases of these kinds of "X IS SCARY, BAN IT OR AVOID IT!!1!!!!!1!!11!!111!!one!!!eleven!!eleventyone!!!" headlines. It's even worse on talk shows.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=20660

Yes, that is the central problem. Let's see, what else is "dangerous" that you can find around the house… well, other types of drain cleaner like NaOH, bleach, cleaning solvents like acetone or anything flammable for that matter, like alcohols, ammonia (toxic vapors), pool chemicals, pest poisons, weed killer, antifreeze. There's a lot of "dangerous" stuff that everyone has around their house that could potentially be used to kill people. Despite that, 99.9% of the population doesn't try to kill people with their household chemicals. Therefore, regulation is highly nonsensical.
The first thing that somebody would think of if they wanted to kill somebody would be a gun or a knife (or maybe a shovel). Not drain cleaner.

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force

[edit] DraconicAcetate, you couldn't possibly be related to our own DraconicAcid, could you?
[Edited on 4.7.2014 by Brain&Force]

Haha, I was wondering the same thing when I saw that username!

DraconicAcetate - 4-7-2014 at 13:01

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force

DraconicAcetate, you couldn't possibly be related to our own DraconicAcid, could you?

Yes- my first account got screwed up, so I needed a new one.

Amos - 4-7-2014 at 14:18

I'm somewhat hesitant to say this online but: I probably could've killed someone with the chemicals in my house before I even knew any chemistry.

Scr0t - 4-7-2014 at 16:20

@zts16
It may seem 'nonsensical' but it's not stopped them before. This is the problem, the target audience are useful idiots (i.e. Sun readers) you can't use reason, logic and facts here as it would get in the way of a 'good' story.

Quote:

The first thing that somebody would think of if they wanted to kill somebody would be a gun or a knife (or maybe a shovel). Not drain cleaner.

Usually the objective behind these attacks is to scar somebody i.e. to leave a mark that fucks-up their life, the objective is not to end it but to cause suffering/torment.

These things will probably be used with increasing frequency in response to increased public awareness and articles like this will probably increase incidence of such attacks until it leads to another tabloid playing a key role in banning yet another chemical that they'll wear like a feather in their cap.

[Edited on 5-7-2014 by Scr0t]

Pyro - 4-7-2014 at 16:39

notice how they capitalize the word ACID to make it look scarier, then lots of pictograms to make it look like the devils fluid.

unionised - 5-7-2014 at 04:35

Quote: Originally posted by Scr0t

@zts16
It may seem 'nonsensical' but it's not stopped them before. This is the problem, the target audience are useful idiots (i.e. Sun readers) you can't use reason, logic and facts here as it would get in the way of a 'good' story.

Quote:

The first thing that somebody would think of if they wanted to kill somebody would be a gun or a knife (or maybe a shovel). Not drain cleaner.

You can disfigure someone perfectly adequately with a shovel or a rock so it hardly matters if the intent is scarring or murder.
Banning acid won't stop people being shitty to eachother.

Tsjerk - 5-7-2014 at 10:05

I found this beauty in the Metro newspaper, UK; I quote, I can't seem to upload the photo.

''90% of all cyclists hard to spot;

nine out of ten motorists find it hard to see cyclists, a survey suggests. Half of the drivers have experienced a bicycle rider appearing from nowhere, it adds.''

arkoma - 6-7-2014 at 06:39

97 attacks? pfft, read this:

Quote:

Glassing
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Glassing is a physical attack using a glass as a weapon. Glassing can occur at bars or pubs where alcohol is served, and a drinking glass or bottle is available as a weapon. The most common method of glassing involves the attacker smashing an intact glass in the face of the victim. However the glass may be smashed before the attack, and then gripped by the remaining base of the glass or neck of the bottle with the broken shards protruding outwards.

Common injuries resulting from glassings are heavy blood loss, permanent scarring, disfigurement and loss of sight through eye injury.

In the United Kingdom, there are more than 5,000 glassing attacks each year.[1]

Emphasis mine.

aga - 6-7-2014 at 12:43

I own a car.

The Big Toe on my right foot has final say on who lives or dies.

Oh. The car contains (amongst other things) Gasoline, which is dangerous.

Ban all Evil Cars !

Pyrovus - 6-7-2014 at 18:27

Or gasoline. It's much easier to acquire than sulphuric acid, probably used about as much to attack people, and does a lot more damage when it is used as a weapon.

prof_genius - 7-7-2014 at 02:20

I found an old polish chemophobic article:
http://krakow.gazeta.pl/krakow/1,44425,12901356,Kilo_bomby_p...

Translated:
Authorities of the University of Agriculture in Krakow examine how chemical materials ordered Dr. Bruno K., suspected of planning the attack on Parliament. In practice, however, you do not need to be a scientist to have easy access even to dangerous measures.

Control of the UR has to answer the question of whether Bruno K. superiors had agreed to purchase chemicals and for what purposes their use. Meanwhile, requesting anonymity university employees believe that K. - like many other teachers - getting such licenses without a problem and not anyone's suspicions are aroused.

We tried yesterday to get information on the case from the Rector Vladimir Orchards, but he was elusive. Following the disclosure of information about the arrest of assistant professor of UR rector assured that access to chemical agents at the university "shall be governed by strict procedures".

We checked how it looks at other universities. The Jagiellonian University all reagents are purchased by the central warehouse. - Substances are issued with written confirmation of receipt by the person authorized by the immediate supervisor. On an ongoing basis we note their consumption, including the date, amount and name of the person that I used - says Katarzyna Pilitowska, a spokeswoman for the Jagiellonian University. Cracow University of Technology employees who procure dangerous substances have no quantitative restrictions, but must in the declarations explain the purposes for which the reagent will be used.

Such rigor is no longer on the market. - Most of the reagents that can be used to construct an explosive device, is widely available. There are no provisions that set ground rules for access to them - highlights Leszek Artemiuk, president of the Polish Association of Specialists Bomb.

It's like with axes

We call Chempur company, trading in chemicals. - We do not sell goods to individuals, but it's not a barrier. Just set up a one-person company and place an order. We have no reason to refuse to sell, for example, 50 kg of cyanide, the more you ask of his destiny. It's like axes: the seller does not ask whether you used to fell trees, or murder - says the director of Robert Chabrowski.

By the end of the 80s of the last century force registry of poisons, or chemicals considered as hazardous. To purchase products from this list, you had to have permission sanepidu, and the purchase was recorded by using forms strictly accountable. - Register admittedly still exists, but is only information about hazardous substances - selects Chabrowski.

The web is teeming with shops that provide home instruction bomb and the necessary components. - I ended technical chemicals. I know that some graduates found various pages and sites devoted to issues of chemical. Mostly they have the character hobby, but some information appears pyrotechnics. I know that some interested in the police - says employee UR.

Pick homegrown pyrotechnics

Malopolska police spokesman Dariusz Nowak argues that investigators monitor the internet and from time to time pick up of amateur pyrotechnics. It is believed that the introduction of strict regulation of chemicals załatwiłoby no problem. - You can always buy something on the substituted person. It is also difficult to restrict access to fertilizers to farmers - multiplies doubts Nowak. Draws attention to the existence of a black market of pyrotechnic materials sourced from unexploded wartime. - We hit the man, who with a map of World War II drove to Pomerania. At the site of the old fortifications excavated ammunition, which recovered explosives in considerable quantities - gives police spokesman.

Leszek Artemiuk admits that the load can be done even with the most common everyday substances, available even in aquarium shops. - Of course it is impossible to save the settings that you can buy as much nitrate and other ingredients as much. Perhaps the output would be a record of purchases. When a farmer buys fertilizer, it does not raise a suspicion, but when he does it, for example, Polish language, any, may cause. This, however, would have to be part of the whole system, the fight against terrorism, which in my opinion in our country is not - says Artemiuk.

The Volatile Chemist - 7-7-2014 at 08:00

We need an anti-chemo-phobia committee on this website, promoting chemistry and putting down chemo-phobia

Brain&Force - 7-7-2014 at 11:11

You know, that's actually a great idea. If I have time, I'll start an article about chemophobia on the wiki...that's something we need to cover.

The Volatile Chemist - 7-7-2014 at 16:05

Indeed! That could be a good base of operations at the least!