Sciencemadness Discussion Board - 18K Gold sould I drop it in aqua regia.

18K Gold sould I drop it in aqua regia.

Syn the Sizer - 8-7-2020 at 15:00

Hello,

Today I was walking through the city, just going for a stroll. Out of nowhere I heard hey sir. There was this gentleman from Dubai in his vehicle who was stranded in the city and needed to get to Toronto. He had 2 gold rings he dropped in my hands asking for money. I am an honest person so I didn't run. He said he was rich but lost his money he had in the city and needed to get back home. In the end he gave me 2 rings and a necklace 78.5g of 18K gold, it's stamped on every piece for $360.

I really could have ran as soon as he dropped the rings in my hands, but that would have been on my conscious.

I was considering dropping the chain in aqua regia and selling the rings and cross from the chain.

Am I stupid or should I drop it all in aqua regia?

Edit:
I am actually thinking of dissolving the cross and selling the chain.

[Edited on 8-7-2020 by Syn the Sizer]

CharlieA - 8-7-2020 at 16:30

I hate to say it but your "conscious" was unconscious. I hope I'm wrong, but this smells very strongly of a scam. Go ahead and dump it all into aqua regia, and after the gold plating (hopefully not brass plating) dissolves, then the base metal underneath will probably dissolve too. At this point, you can chalk it all up to experience, or you can practice inorganic qualitative analysis and separate the mixture of metals.
I really hope I'm wrong about a scam, and also that this isn't a belated April Fool's Day joke.

Syn the Sizer - 8-7-2020 at 16:53

No this is the real thing. They are clearly worn. There is dirt caught in some of the grooves even a couple small dings that are shiny as the rest. I looked the rings over before I hopped into the vehicle. I realize a stamp saying 18K doesn't guarantee 18K but with the parts that are worn smooth from the finger are still shiny and the stamp is shiny inside the grooves too.

I have been trying to get a good shot of the 18K stamp but my camera sucks. I have a photo of it all together though.

[Edited on 9-7-2020 by Syn the Sizer]

draculic acid69 - 8-7-2020 at 17:32

Before you do anything go to a pawn shop or cash for gold place that uses xrf testing.the scratch test is inefficient and incomplete and is not good enough.this will give you a very precise readout of what you have in % of each metal. you don't want to see tungsten or titanium anywhere.copper silver lead are to be expected if real.ive seen 23.7 carat gold with an iron impurity but I don't think it was magnetic.if it's magnetic you have gold plated iron.anyways xrf testing is what you need.dont do anything until then.

Syn the Sizer - 8-7-2020 at 17:41

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

Before you do anything go to a pawn shop or cash for gold place that uses xrf testing.the scratch test is inefficient and incomplete and is not good enough.this will give you a very precise readout of what you have in % of each metal. you don't want to see tungsten or titanium anywhere.copper silver lead are to be expected if real.ive seen 23.7 carat gold with an iron impurity but I don't think it was magnetic.if it's magnetic you have gold plated iron.anyways xrf testing is what you need.dont do anything until then.

Sounds good, I was planning on going to a gold dealer to have it checked out. It definitely isn't magnetic, I just checked with a hard drive magnet.

draculic acid69 - 8-7-2020 at 17:45

That used to be an effective way to determine if it's fake but now instead of iron they use tungsten or titanium.just a few days ago a news story from china about how billions in fake gold bars were used as collateral for loans went worldwide.it was all just coated tungsten or copper.https://www.afr.com/markets/commodities/the-mystery-of-4b-of-loans-backed-by-fake-gold-20200705-p55938

Syn the Sizer - 8-7-2020 at 18:18

lol, Crazy, well we'll see what happens, maybe I was taken.

draculic acid69 - 8-7-2020 at 18:27

Pictures?

DraconicAcid - 8-7-2020 at 18:33

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

That used to be an effective way to determine if it's fake but now instead of iron they use tungsten or titanium.just a few days ago a news story from china about how billions in fake gold bars were used as collateral for loans went worldwide.it was all just coated tungsten or copper.https://www.afr.com/markets/commodities/the-mystery-of-4b-of-loans-backed-by-fake-gold-20200705-p55938

I'm pretty sure they're using tungsten these days, because it has nearly the same density as gold. Titanium would be far lighter.

Syn the Sizer - 8-7-2020 at 18:35

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

Pictures?

Yes I meant to upload them I will do that right now.

Syn the Sizer - 8-7-2020 at 18:49

I tried getting shots of the stamp but it isn't clear in the photos.

[Edited on 9-7-2020 by Syn the Sizer]

draculic acid69 - 8-7-2020 at 20:00

What's it say above the cross? And what is on the ring? Is it poker? The two rings seem to go together

DraconicAcid - 8-7-2020 at 20:01

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

What's it say above the cross? And what is on the ring? Is it poker? The two rings seem to go together

It says "INRI", which stands for Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. It's common on Catholic crosses.

draculic acid69 - 8-7-2020 at 20:15

https://www.liveauctionworld.com/GOLD-TONE-POKER-RING_i34069...
https://www.letgo.com/en-ca/i/mens-18k-gold-poker-ring_ba6f0...

I found the ring on Google but no details. Letgo is not available in my country so I can't look at this.

[Edited on 9-7-2020 by draculic acid69]

DraconicAcid - 8-7-2020 at 20:31

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

https://www.liveauctionworld.com/GOLD-TONE-POKER-RING_i34069...
https://www.letgo.com/en-ca/i/mens-18k-gold-poker-ring_ba6f0...

I found the ring on Google but no details. Letgo is not available in my country so I can't look at this.

That looks like the one. It's a 16.7 g 18K ring (size 10.5) for $250 (presumably Canadian).

ring.jpeg - 27kB

Syn the Sizer - 8-7-2020 at 20:33

Yep it says poker on the ring. letgo says it's 18K gold and going for $250 and the weight more or less matches, the site says 16.7g I weighed 17g and that could be the scale I used out a bit.

draculic acid69 - 8-7-2020 at 20:47

I'd say it's plated or filled gold. It seems a little too yellow to me. Let us know about any xrf results.

[Edited on 9-7-2020 by draculic acid69]

Syn the Sizer - 8-7-2020 at 20:56

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

I'd say it's plated or filled gold. It seems a little too yellow to me. Let us know about any xrf results.

[Edited on 9-7-2020 by draculic acid69]

I will, for sure.

Heptylene - 8-7-2020 at 22:36

Bite it? If it's a gold alloy you will leave a sizeable dent. Or take wire snippers and try to cut the ring in half. If it's gold plated tungsten, you won't be able to.

Looking forward to knowing what comes out of this!

woelen - 8-7-2020 at 23:47

This sounds too good to be true. Current spot price of gold is well over US$ 50 per gram. I expect it to be gold, plated over some other metal or alloy.

Refinery - 8-7-2020 at 23:56

I'm surprised if they contain any significant amount of gold.

There are whole industry branches in the world that are specialized in making fake items, including antiques and patinizing (referring to your "worn looking" comment). Coins were sweated in the past times for precious metal powder, a modern scam artist would likely just use tumbler or ball mill - if coins were still based on their intrinsic value.

The story about chinese artisans was interesting I heard from an art enthusiast. He told that when there was an art scam crisis, and there was a sudden surge of rare coins and pieces of art, which appeared very real and fooled even professional numismatics, but when an actual forensic investigation were made, they found out that they were exceptionally well made fakes originating from china. There was also a story about crystal skulls decades aco which were upon speculation that they would be even originated from extra-terrestrial sources, but they were also traced back to chinese craftmans.

Point of the story is that if something worth money can be faked, it probably will be at some point. If you get good at making something, it can turn out really profitable.

outer_limits - 9-7-2020 at 00:04

Rich guy from Dubai with a cross on his neck? Sounds legit

What did you give him for that?

There are many scammers in my area who do similar things, many of them describe them as businessman, they are driving good cars and they wear nice suits - so they look quite legit. They offer gold or other things for a money that would be sufficient to tank the car explaining that they forgot to take a wallet of somebody robbed them just before and they need to attend business meeting somewhere in the country - but unfortunately they have no fuel

draculic acid69 - 9-7-2020 at 16:58

Quote: Originally posted by outer_limits

Rich guy from Dubai with a cross on his neck? Sounds legit

Yeah, guy from Dubai with a cross is contradictory

karlos³ - 9-7-2020 at 17:45

I am really interested if it turns out to be real gold.
Please update as soon as possible about your findings with this stuff!

SWIM - 9-7-2020 at 17:58

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

Quote: Originally posted by outer_limits

Rich guy from Dubai with a cross on his neck? Sounds legit

Yeah, guy from Dubai with a cross is contradictory

Nope, not at all. Dubai is 13% Christian. And they don't throw a shit-fit about people wearing crosses there.

Dubai is also the claimed country of origin for many of the perpetrators of the old gold ring scam in Canada.

The RCMP has been issuing bulletins for years about this.

Sulaiman - 9-7-2020 at 18:11

I would take the items to a jeweler and try to sell them,
you get a free assay then decide.
Gold is increasing in dollar value so good to sell or keep.
If fake then as a chemist, see how much pure gold you can recover.
This would entail a double loss (fake + chemicals)
BUT, with some gold dust as a souvenir

Syn the Sizer - 9-7-2020 at 18:17

So, I took them in and you guys were sort of right. It is gold but it isn't 18K gold. I asked if he was wanting to buy he asked what I was looking. I named what I paid and he thought about it than bought it off me. As long as I got what I paid back, that's all I cared. Maybe the jeweller took me too who knows, I just got my money back, that's all I care.

B(a)P - 9-7-2020 at 19:09

Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer

So, I took them in and you guys were sort of right. It is gold but it isn't 18K gold.

What was it?

Syn the Sizer - 9-7-2020 at 19:14

It was gold, he didn't say what K, just wasn't 18K. I didn't care, everybody scared me and I just wanted to get my money back lol. If it was 18K and he got a score, at least I got my money back.

draculic acid69 - 9-7-2020 at 22:16

Did they do an xrf test?

Syn the Sizer - 9-7-2020 at 22:34

they did first did what I think was a hardness test, then took it into the back for a while. However, after thinking the worst all night I just wanted to get my money back. I didn't care to see any test results lol.

draculic acid69 - 9-7-2020 at 22:42

They won't do a hardness test with an xrf. It'll be the xrf and that's it or they'll do hardness or scratch tests.thats what they were doing out the back.generally they don't like scratching and grinding jewelry in front of ppl.it tends to get an angry unfavorable response from whoever is selling it

[Edited on 10-7-2020 by draculic acid69]

Syn the Sizer - 9-7-2020 at 22:58

That makes sense, I got my cash back, that's what matters to me.

Herr Haber - 10-7-2020 at 02:12

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

Tungsten I get it, it has almost the same density. I've never heard of titanium though.

Whathappensif - 10-7-2020 at 04:27

Really, an Arab guy in Dubai (who is probably Muslim) selling a cross he owned? FYI most Christians in Dubai are of Asian, African and European origin.

Smells fishier than a caviar factory.

mackolol - 10-7-2020 at 05:16

Quote: Originally posted by Whathappensif

Really, an Arab guy in Dubai (who is probably Muslim) selling a cross he owned? FYI most Christians in Dubai are of Asian, African and European origin.

Smells fishier than a caviar factory.

I didn't notice that he mentioned the guy being muslim...
And even being an Arab he could be an atheist

woelen - 10-7-2020 at 05:24

I find this a very fishy story anyway. Someone stopping in the streets, in front of a total stranger, trying to sell some jewellery for a price which sounds too good to be true . . .

draculic acid69 - 10-7-2020 at 06:11

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

Tungsten I get it, it has almost the same density. I've never heard of titanium though.

I just get the two of those mixed up bcoz they both start with t.
Im pretty sure it's tungsten they use

Syn the Sizer - 10-7-2020 at 07:02

Quote: Originally posted by woelen

I find this a very fishy story anyway. Someone stopping in the streets, in front of a total stranger, trying to sell some jewellery for a price which sounds too good to be true . . .

It was too good to be true. I only got back what I paid, I do feel stupid about it.

I do have a question now. What do they alloy with gold to reduce the K? I am wondering what else would have been in jewellery. He bought it for what I paid so he did see some value in it.

Would it be to melt it down for the gold or a resale as is?

draculic acid69 - 10-7-2020 at 07:25

I reckon it was just plated or filled gold. If plated there wouldn't be much but if it's rolled gold it can be 5-10% gold content. usually its 10-14karat gold in these items
but anything that's stamped 18k and isn't 18k is a sign of scammish product.
Silver, copper,zinc,lead,nickel and iron are what they'll use to alloy gold. Nickel isn't really common due to allergic reactions on skin and only time I've seen iron was in a 300gram 23.7k chain bcoz it would just be too soft having a 24k chain.

Syn the Sizer - 10-7-2020 at 07:44

Ok, so he is probably looking to reclaim any gold in the jewellery since he wouldn't want to sell a falsely stamped item. If rolled gold, at best he would have ~7.8g of gold at around $77/g CDN. But he has more value in gold as a resource for making jewellery so 7.8g of gold to him is worth more to him than $77/g.

pneumatician - 11-8-2020 at 05:53

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid

It says "INRI", which stands for Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews. It's common on Catholic crosses.

INRI ? Igne Natura Renovatur Integra