Adenosine Triphosphate

There are two goals of this thread. One, to determine if it would be possible for the human body to use Adenosine Triphosphate (C₁₀H₁₆N₅O₁₃P₃ as a substitute for conventional food, durring times of shortage, or as a substitute for food in places where it would not be feasible to carry ordinary food. Second, to come up with a method of producing raw ATP.

The idea of using direct use of ATP in the human body is similar to the 'cannibal theory'. Basically, cannibals would eat another of their own kinda (just say human eats another human) They realized that it would give them 'extra' energy. It was simply because it is easier for the body to break down proteins and use them if they arealready in a state useful to that organism. Anyways, my idea is the same, only using pure ATP, or ATP in a form that is easily broken down by the body in hopes of preserving more energy for the body.

Ive done some research on the first part. It appears that there are some sites that sell ATP as a remedy for certain ailments, and the methods for taking them are intramuscular injection, and sublingual (under the tounge) absorbtion. It also says that you should not swallow the ATP, but Im assuming that this may be because of the possibility of it passing directly through the body. So, in an effort to prevent this, would it be possible to 'lock' the ATP in a sucrose polymer? That takes away from the thought of direct ingestion, but sucrose is easily broken down by the body, so I dont see that it would cause too much of a drop in energy transfer..

For the second part, Im not too totally sure.. Im not exactly a chemistry whiz, so this is where I really need input. Im honestly clueless on this part. I know that that its basically a format like this for the ATP- Adenine + Phosphate group + energy(electrical possibly?) ---> ATP

EDIT-
As soon as I figure out how to do so, Ill add a picture of the chemical format of ATP.

[Edited on 20-1-2004 by raistlin]

I agree with both what Ziqquratu and Al Koholic said.
ATP, being an extremely polar molecule, would be hard pressed to move across unpolar (remember they are made of lipids) cell membranes, even if it did happen to enter intercellular spaces (i.e. via intramuscular injection - the oral route is unlikely to work for the reasons mentioned above). For this purpose there would have to be some kind of ATP-transport channel on the outer membrane of a cell. I doubt one exists as all the ATP is produced intracellularly, in the mitochondria. Surely there are some processes outside the cell that require ATP, and they will get ATP from the inside of a cell, again via an ATP channel or so. But there is no need for a reverse process however.
On the synthesis of ATP - it requires adenosine monophosphate or diphosphate (AMP or ADP). In cells, Adenylate kinase converts AMP to ADP, and the energy conversion system inside the mitochondria convert ADP + Pi to ATP. I am sure there are classical chemical routes to the synthesis of ATP, but I should think they are very expensive, bacterial sources are cheaper (just for shits and giggles, Sigma sells ATP for 2000$/kg - and this is the lowest possible grade).

Creatinephosphate is a much more likely candidate for a cheap energy donor. I happen to remember that the immediate amount of ATP at any given time lasts you to move (that is, physical movement involving muscular contraction) 3 (!!) seconds. The energy metabolism (conversion of glucose to energy and H2O/CO2) takes considerably longer to get turned on, however. Essentially, that would mean, after three seconds you would be dead if you suddenly started to get up and run.
This is where creatine phosphate comes in- it is a molecule that *reversibly* accepts or releases a phosphate group. Guess where the phosphate comes from? From ATP of course. ATP is thereby converted to ADP. Creatine phosphate (CP) is accumulated during periods of inactivity, if surplus creatine and surplus ATP is present.
Creatine phosphate works by donating the phosphate group to ADP, which then form creatinine and ATP. ATP is then used for muscular activity.
Anyway, I think you can buy CP in certain shops, and indeed it is used as an energy booster.
Oh, while the internal ATP lasts you 3 seconds, CP lasts you several minutes. This is enough time for the mitochondria to start producing increased amounts of ATP, hence you DONT die, but you survive and can keep running

By the way, creatine has quite an interesting structure - it is a derivative of guanidine (H2N-C(NH2+)-NH2). There is an N-linked [CH2-COO-] and CH3 on the NH2 (it is a zwitterion).
Makes me wonder whether you could obtain guanidine from it... which be be of interest in the Energetic Materials Section

Quote:

Originally posted by raistlin There are two goals of this thread. One, to determine if it would be possible for the human body to use Adenosine Triphosphate (C<sub>10</sub>H<sub>16</sub>N<sub>5</sub>O<sub>13</sub>P<sub>3</sub> as a substitute for conventional food, durring times of shortage, or as a substitute for food in places where it would not be feasible to carry ordinary food. [Edited on 20-1-2004 by raistlin]

While ATP might just serve as a source of energy and phosphate for the body, cola is nicer and cheaper.

Hmmmmm???

Quote:

Originally posted by guaguanco Quote: Originally posted by raistlin There are two goals of this thread. One, to determine if it would be possible for the human body to use Adenosine Triphosphate (C<sub>10</sub>H<sub>16</sub>N<sub>5</sub>O<sub>13</sub>P<sub>3</sub> as a substitute for conventional food, durring times of shortage, or as a substitute for food in places where it would not be feasible to carry ordinary food. [Edited on 20-1-2004 by raistlin] Sorry, not possible. As others have pointed out, ATP is too fragile to survive the digestive system. And food contains things like proteins, lipids and minerals. The body can't function without any of these.

Coincidentally, I was reading a relatively modern New Scientist (December '03, I think...). Anyway, it was talking about a new type of food additive, which it dubbed a "bitter blocker" (an obvious play on the "beta blocker" class of drugs ). This bitter blocker, when added in small amounts to food, blocks our bitter taste receptors, masking the bitterness. Very useful for the food industry, as processing tends to make food bitter, and they add sugar, salt, fat to mask that... I wonder if that explains McDonalds food...

Anyway, this isn't as rambling as it seems, just giving background. This bitter blocker is none other than good old adenosine monophosphate, or AMP. The fun thing is, this applicaiton is going to make AMP as common as table salt, if not quite as cheap. Anyway, if one wanted to experiment, this would be an ideal starting compound. I was thinking of ways to selectively phosphorylate adenosine, but couldn't come up with anything that wouldn't react with all the other hydroxyls (and possibly amines) present in the molecule. It should, however, be much easier to form ADP and then ATP by selectively reacting with the phosphate group already present in AMP. Something to think about, anyway!

But on the problems, as chemoleo mentioned, is that ATP is unlikely to be taken up by cells and would thus be floating around useless in the extracellular fluid. This would pretty much prove the downfall of your idea, I'm afraid.

Ziqqaratu, that's very interesting. Do you remember the mechanism of it's action? Maybe it would be wise to start a thread on 'Biochemistry on Taste receptors' (to avoid getting off topic too much), as I have a bit to contribute on how hot chilli peppers work, or aspartame, or menthol... so feel free to make a thread on the blockage of bitter rececptors by AMP (with a general title). I will then add relevant bits

hermes & raistlin - I just quote this:
ATP, being an extremely polar molecule, would be hard pressed to move across unpolar (remember they are made of lipids) cell membranes, even if it did happen to enter intercellular spaces (i.e. via intramuscular injection - the oral route is unlikely to work for the reasons mentioned above). For this purpose there would have to be some kind of ATP-transport channel on the outer membrane of a cell. I doubt one exists as all the ATP is produced intracellularly, in the mitochondria. Surely there are some processes outside the cell that require ATP, and they will get ATP from the inside of a cell, again via an ATP channel or so. But there is no need for a reverse process however.

--> There is no route for ATP to enter the cell, at least not to my knowledge. I can't see the physiological need for it either. Hence no IV injections of ATP - they wouldnt do much good. Creatine phosphate would be much better anyhow as it is used in muscle cells directly, to *produce* ATP! By the way, this is how the cell gets rid of *surplus* ATP, by using it to A) make fatty acids for your belly and B) shortterm, for creatine phosphate . It is not shufflled outside the cell, no way. if anything, it is shuffled from the mitochondria to the cytoplasm, which is still inside the cell. Also, if there is a surplus of ATP, that means there is a lack of AMP/ADP, which in turn causes downregulation of the citric acid cycle etc. This way the system stops producing surplus after a while.

Ziqqaratu - by the way the best way to produce AMP will be with biochemical methods, i.e. using the required enzymes and phosphate donors.
As you saw from the Sigma quote on ATP, it is from a bacterial source - simply because it is a lot easier to get this way!

PS Insulin is in no way related to ATP. Insulin is a protein, while ATP isnt. When I get back from work, I think I will post some structures

chemo, that's not a bad idea, I'll try and find the article online and kick of a new thread in the next few days (I'm gonna be too busy drinking way too much for the next day or two to even think about anything scientific )

And, of course, biochemical synthesis is pretty much the only way to go, and is almost certainly how it will be done commercially... the comments on chemical synthesis were just for interest sake. I was going to put in something about a biosynthesis, but at the time I really couldn't be bothered. Suffice it to say that, unless you were planning on making a significant amount, setting up a bioreactor would not be worthwhile... and it'd be difficult to get exactly right even if you did try (although the literature about it is bound to be out there...). My initial guess would be that bacteria would be engineered to produce the required enzyme (adenosine phosphorylase or something to that effect... molecular biologists aren't too creative when it comes to naming their enzymes) and are engineered to either secrete it or the enzyme is extracted. Either way, it'd then be placed in a flask with adenosine and something like potassium hydrogen phosphate as a phosphate donor. From there the theory is pretty simple, although the conditions (Temp., pH, concentrations, etc.) would need to be very specific and tightly controlled.

Or, perhaps, we could try a vehicle that can "protect" it (ATP) until some specific condition is met? Maybe the vehicle could remain behind at the cellular membrane?

Your sitting on a Gold-Mine, Trebeck!

the Pen is mightier,

O3