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chemrox
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post whores like me
I'm a post whore according to a certain faction here. That's because I see the forum as an ongoing conversation about chemistry, apparatus and
related matters. It's an ugly term that implies pernicious attention seeking as a primary motive for posting. I'm curious to know how it started and
what those who use it feel posting should be limited to? There's probably a balance somewhere between responding daily to multiple threads and just
posting information that hasn't been offered here before. However, is there a problem with frequently writing in on threads and if so what is it?
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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ScienceGeek
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I think it's wonderful you are a post whore 
I bet a lot of people on this forum (including me :S) often know the answer to something, or has something to say, but doesn't because "I'll do it
next time"
My point is: Be a proud post whore!
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BromicAcid
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Being a post whore doesn't imply at all that you are creating or replying to a large number of topics in and of itself. Some post whores only post
occasionally maybe a few posts every few days. What differentiates them as a post whore is that...
A) They don't add anything to further the topic-
E.g. "Oh, I had one of those once!" Or "I've heard of that before, but I don't remember where..." Or even "I agree!"
Occasionally those sorts of responses are appropriate though, such as when a topic is relatively obscure and your confirmation helps to reaffirm the
validity of the mother post. However when those responses are used by the same person over a number of topics they can lead to the affliction known
as post whoring.
B) Their reply to the topic is off topic, hardly relates to the topic, and serves to answer its own line of questioning-
E.g. "I never got gassed with HCN before but one time I got hit with some hydrogen chloride, I coughed for like an hour."
Again, this type of answer is not in and of itself post whoring, however used compulsively it could be indicative of a post whoring lifestyle.
C) They reply with one word (Two at the most) or an emoticon-
E.g. "Okay." Or "I understand"
That sort of reply is not conducive toward a conversation, it helps to stagnate the forum especially when you really don't understand or are just
humoring someone. What do you understand and why didn't you understand it before? As with previous examples this is an acceptable reply, however
when used en-mass it can serve as evidence of post whoring.
NOTE! "Nice job!" and many compliments are <b>not</b> examples of post whoring if the accolades are truly deserved.
D) UTFSE! -
E.g. "UTFSE!" Or "Next time UTFSE!" Or "Gahhh! Why are people so lazy, UTFSE!"
Some of us here are sick of the influx of people not willing to use the search engine. I'll admit that I am one of them. However to go around
brandishing that as an answer to multiple topics in a given day is post whoring of the highest degree. It contributes nothing to the post,
discourages the poster, and since it takes no time/effort/thinking on the side of the poster and only serves to increase their post count, it is an
irrefutable example of the post whoring art form.
Now, I will admit that this list is not all inclusive. And as I have stated in most of these explanations these responses for the most part are not
proof positive of post whoring. One word answers and such do have their place on the forum. However it is when these are all used together, time and
time again, where a poster adds nothing to the topic and fulfills the ideals of post whoredom by not contributing anything <b>relevant</b>
to a topic that they have crossed over that line and the trash filling their brain is uncontrollably spilling out onto the keyboard with the simple
minded goal of increasing their post count for the sake of increasing their own post count.
This is not an instant message conversation, this is a discussion forum, posts are not made just to let the other person know you're still there.
Each post should add or be relevant to the previous, like adding to a novel, you don't just put crap there to increase it's length, posts should be
thought out and structured and have a point.
Other examples of postwhoredom are welcome!
Also of note is that post whores are not post whores forever. Redemption is not impossible.
[Edited on 1/28/2008 by BromicAcid]
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chemoleo
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The above post is mandatory reading for all members, including some very 'established' ones.
During the past 6 months, I've received complaints about a large proportion of posts without purpose or real information (which very much relates to
the contagious phenomenon termed 'postwhoring').
This has been perceived as leading to a decrease in quality of the forum for the past year or so.
This is clearly not in anyone's interest.
From this point forward, crappy and useless posts will be deleted, subject to a moderator's discretion. Continuous
infringements may lead to posting bans.
Please do contact a mod or admin if you notice infringements.
It is time to get this forum back on track!
It is about QUALITY not QUANTITY!
Chemrox, this post will make a sticky in Forum Matters. Thank you for raising this issue, and making a valuable contribution!
[Edited on 29-1-2008 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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BromicAcid
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I think that might be a conflict of interest.
Since we're <b>on topic</b> let me point out another related and relevant thread/poll:
Should the posts of post whores and other irrelevant posts be deleted from the forum?
Where this was somewhat covered before and a majority of people already agreed with Chemoleo that irrelevant posts and examples of post whoring should
just be deleted. Granted we might accidentally loose some good posts in the process, however if the post did contain useful information my thought
would be that the poster might be compelled to attempt to express it in a different way so as to better get their point across thereby making their
information more valuable.
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12AX7
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I think it's funny that, within months of NBK's death, we're seeing a tightening of censorship *here*. But I'm sure that's coincidence.
I suggest moderators should PM the removed post to the poster when it is removed, along with a concise explanation of what and why. This will
facilitate the process: "the poster might be compelled to attempt to express it in a different way".
Tim
[Edited on 1-29-2008 by 12AX7]
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BromicAcid
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Tightening of censorship? This topic was covered years ago and people then agreed that low quality / irrelevant / off topic posts detract from
overall topic quality. And what the heck does this NBK person have to do with things? I'm not the one that started this thread, I was just the one
that replied. And that was just me venting about some of the low quality posts that have been popping up lately. It wasn't a direct shot at chemrox,
or ScienceGeek, or even you (unlike the linked thread) it was simply an opening for me to express some thoughts I've had on the subject for some time.
I do agree with you though that people who's posts are deleted might need some kind of notification, otherwise they might wonder where their post went
and post pointless replies to the thread in question asking readers where their post went, thereby degrading topic quality.
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vulture
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| Quote: |
I think it's funny that, within months of NBK's death, we're seeing a tightening of censorship *here*. But I'm sure that's coincidence.
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You have WAY too much time on your hands to produce such a conspiracy theory.
| Quote: |
I suggest moderators should PM the removed post to the poster when it is removed, along with a concise explanation of what and why. This will
facilitate the process: "the poster might be compelled to attempt to express it in a different way". |
Cunning attempt, but no. What you're saying is that I'd have to explain to a postwhore what they actually wrote and why it is crap? That way a
compulsive postwhore would just overwhelm the moderating squad with an exercise in futility.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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chemrox
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I wanted to get agreement on what "post whoring" is. If we went with Bromic's definition I'd be comfortable. I know a member who divides the number
of posts by the time on the forum and draws a conclusion. I can't agree with that.
I started this thinking about how the forum could be a better place and some concerns about censorship were involved. I think that some
self-assessment along the lines indicated by Bromic and less subject oriented censorship would help. I would like it if more experiments were
reported, successful and otherwise. I would add this to Bromic's: if you feel you have to use the moniker, "SWIM" this isn't the place to discuss
it. That should be sufficient censorship. I haven't seen too much of the pointless nannering chemoleo referred to but I suppose it happens.
[Edited on 29-1-2008 by chemrox]
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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12AX7
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BromicAcid
Tightening of censorship? |
Yes, that's the topic being discussed: censorship == suppression of words. Censorship doesn't have to mean a bad thing, it's just a word. (Though I
implied it's bad in my statement!)
| Quote: | | I'm not the one that started this thread, I was just the one that replied. |
I never addressed you specifically?
| Quote: | | I do agree with you though that people who's posts are deleted might need some kind of notification, otherwise they might wonder where their post went
and post pointless replies to the thread in question asking readers where their post went, thereby degrading topic quality. |
I post the same here as I do at numerous other forums. The others are very comfortable places, but for some reason, this forum has always carried a
certain disagreeable odor with it. And I think it has to do with these two things: the forced assumption that newbies need to know things ("UTFSE!"
seems to be an ever-increasing phrase used as this forum grows), and the censorship advocated, and now enforced, by the moderating staff.
I still don't understand what it is, psychologically or otherwise, about so-called "post whoring" that is so annoying. Vulture appears to be
immensely concerned about the amount of work he has to do here; the most optimal solution, then, would be none. What's wrong with this? Obviously,
some moderation is necessary to maintain an advertisment-free forum, but we're talking well above and beyond that level of activity.
As concerns work, by far it's quite obvious that the best solution is none. Consider: if this plan is in fact followed to its logical conclusion,
then there will be 1. MORE posts started in regards to acceptable posting (this whole *thread*, and many others related, would never exist if the
subject weren't a concern); 2. following a "whore post", avid members will declare in subsequent posts "that was a whore post", until the offending
post is removed; 3. you will have to do *considerable* work drawing and maintaining very specific rules over what is and is not a whore post, because
you KNOW such a strict action will require strict regulation to follow. And 4., you have to enforce all those rules, in a way sensible for
maintaining it (e.g., telling that poster why).
If "no work at all" is too little, then it would be most effective, in the long run, to explain why certain posts are undesirable. Why? Because
people learn. It's far easier to send perhaps three detailed messages over a few weeks than to delete five hundred over the next year -- per active
user! The choice is obvious.
My mention of NBK is of course absurd; the name merely came to mind in regards to a rather remarkable example of censorship, that most are familiar
with in some way.
Tim
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BromicAcid
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| Quote: | | I still don't understand what it is, psychologically or otherwise, about so-called "post whoring" that is so annoying. |
Then you've missed all of my points above regarding the subject. A post whore is not just a person that posts lots and lots of messages. But it is a
person that does so while adding nothing to the discussion. Their posts actually serve to detract from the focus of a thread, trying to lead it off
in other directions, or stop it entirely. For example, someone posts a thread asking about the potential for replacing the chlorine atoms on
1,4-dichlorobenzene to give benzene. A few moments after their initial post another member posts the following answer.
"This has been discussed before, UTFSE!"
Note, there have been examples where the UTFSE acronym was pulled out and it was later determined that such use of the search engine gives no useful
information. That can be one outcome. Secondly other members who may want to reply to the topic are deterred, they after all feel the need to post
in the mother thread that the member referred to when they stated that it was in the search engine somewhere. And finally if they are new enough they
may be dissuaded to the point where they leave the forum.
Now, all of these are possible negatives. However the real negative is the post whore that gave the response. The response takes zero intelligence
to give. Anyone on the forum can say 'UTFSE' in any thread. You add nothing by doing this and the possible negative connotations are listed above.
This is post whoring. You have debased your posting in order to say something everyone on the forum already knows.
But why? I have no clue. A reasonable response would show some work. Even so little as finding the thread for the person and posting a response
such as:
"This has already been covered [link]"
Now some people might look at that and say, "Why am I doing all the work? If I do that for everyone I just enable them to be slackers." True, so you
know, it might be better to not reply at all than just reply with a mindless response.
So basically all I am saying is that post whoring in a malicious act centered on the very destruction of this forum. It is not innocent. Post whores
dilute the useful information, cut off interesting topics, and overall act as a disruptive force to the forum.
With regards to my statement about not starting this thread, just being the one who replied it was simply my admission of guilt for turning the thread
from more of a praising of post whores, which is where it could have been heading, to a militia against them.
I am sorry that this forum has rubbed you wrong from the start, but obviously something must be keeping you around so I don't have much to apologize
for.
Now, let's all donate money to sciencemadness!
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chemoleo
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The issue does not reside with the moderator, it resides with you and yourself alone, for you choose to write what you write. (edit: This comment refers to a post by 12AX that was deleted in the meantime)
If you choose to post irrelevant crap, time and time again for hundreds or even thousands of posts, with sadly only a minority of true gems
interspersed, you will not receive the gratuity of being informed, for it is too tiresome.
Sorry to single some people out but you were and are asking for it.
Members who are less infringing will of course be politely notified, and these numbers should remain low.
This has been going for years now, and the buck will stop here.
The issue of censoring has been raised before, and explained many a time. It becomes a rather tiresome and stale argument.
Let me say this: We'd rather remove crap (mark this, crap alone) than having a beautiful and unique forum being diluted and violated by that
very thing. Quality over quantity, as simple as that. Noone minds the one-off, but unfortunately the one-off sometimes becomes a perpetuum mobile,
when the one-off turns to always-on, discouraging many (including new) members.
Newbies are more than welcome, this is why there is a Beginnings forum. And if you are to look in that forum, people are generally more than helpful.
There is a forum called 'Whimsy' where anyone can post whatever he or she likes at your heart's content.
What is so difficult about this?
Let me re-emphasise:
The forum other than whimsy is NOT a conversation, it is a documentation of topic-related experiences,
knowledge, and advice so that it may be of use to others.
For the former use Whimsy or an instant messaging service.
[Edited on 6-2-2008 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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vulture
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| Quote: |
The others are very comfortable places, but for some reason, this forum has always carried a certain disagreeable odor with it.
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Sheesh! I wonder how many posts you would have made if this forum was comfy to you! Anyway, you're free to leave if you desire.
Science is never comfortable. It's often messy and interspersed with setbacks. If you want to be comfy, go out and have a drink instead of posting
here.
| Quote: |
Vulture appears to be immensely concerned about the amount of work he has to do here; |
What exactly are you implying here? If you want to say something, say it, instead of some halfassed attempt at slander.
| Quote: |
1. MORE posts started in regards to acceptable posting (this whole *thread*, and many others related, would never exist if the subject weren't a
concern); |
This is forum matters you know. Anyway, you're posting in this thread, so you obviously don't have a problem with threads like these.
| Quote: |
2. following a "whore post", avid members will declare in subsequent posts "that was a whore post", until the offending post is removed; 3. you will
have to do *considerable* work drawing and maintaining very specific rules over what is and is not a whore post, because you KNOW such a strict action
will require strict regulation to follow. And 4., you have to enforce all those rules, in a way sensible for maintaining it (e.g., telling that poster
why). |
Very touching that you are concerned with our workload (although your previous remarks imply otherwise), however you are forgetting one thing: we have
something called a report button. That is the best and fastest way to contact the mods. It works. So no excuses there.
As for censorship and all that political correct crap, once you post here you are already censoring yourself and others by posting in a certain
section on a certain subject.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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12AX7
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vulture
Sheesh! I wonder how many posts you would have made if this forum was comfy to you! Anyway, you're free to leave if you desire.
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I try my best nonetheless. Leaving would be the easy way out.
| Quote: | | Science is never comfortable. It's often messy and interspersed with setbacks. If you want to be comfy, go out and have a drink instead of posting
here. |
I disagree. Science can be exciting and challenging. It needn't be uncomfortable!
| Quote: | | Quote: |
Vulture appears to be immensely concerned about the amount of work he has to do here; |
What exactly are you implying here? If you want to say something, say it, instead of some halfassed attempt at slander. |
I'm implying nothing, I'm making an observation on something I have percieved about you. The most recent statement I might use to illustrate this is
above:
| Quote: | | That way a compulsive postwhore would just overwhelm the moderating squad with an exercise in futility. |
Not a perfect example of course, since you phrased that as an extreme case, which is intentionally to your case as most people would avoid such work.
A better general example might be the proclivity for "UTFSE", by yourself and others, which is easier for members to say, but very hard on newbies.
On other forums, I've gotten used to the fact that "UTFSE" is impractical for newbies, and instead I write a short, concise reply, which is easy as
common topics (e.g., "how to wire LED?") let you optimize such replies. It's not much more trouble than such threads as "UTFSE", "i searchd but fuond
nothing", followed by "Learn to spell!", and further wastefulness. Spoonfeeding? Sure. But not everyone learns as well on their own as you and I
do, either!
| Quote: | | Quote: |
1. MORE posts started in regards to acceptable posting (this whole *thread*, and many others related, would never exist if the subject weren't a
concern); |
This is forum matters you know. Anyway, you're posting in this thread, so you obviously don't have a problem with threads like these.
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Well, no, I'm not; you are. It illustrates some irony in your concern, wouldn't you say?
| Quote: | | Quote: |
2. following a "whore post", avid members will declare in subsequent posts "that was a whore post", ... |
Very touching that you are concerned with our workload (although your previous remarks imply otherwise), however you are forgetting one thing: we have
something called a report button. That is the best and fastest way to contact the mods. It works. So no excuses there. |
Ah, but you (the staff) can't police the forum all 24 hours of the day. A smattering of members around the world views the forum approximately around
the clock, however! It's quite likely that faulty posts may take hours to days before they are cleaned up, in which time some members may see them,
and some of them may respond for whatever reason.
| Quote: | | As for censorship and all that political correct crap, once you post here you are already censoring yourself and others by posting in a certain
section on a certain subject. |
You'll have to explain -- I'm not getting a clear mental picture of what thought process wrote that. In any case, as far as censorship is concerned,
you'll realize I never claimed that absolutely no censorship is a good thing; that would be anarchy, and the forum would be flooded by spam and cooks
within weeks. No, the problem is striking the right balance -- and I think you are tipping the balance too far.
Tim (damned be le Chatlier, my postcount is changing the equilibrium! -- How's that for a chemical analogy?)
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MagicJigPipe
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| Quote: |
censoring yourself and others by posting in a certain section on a certain subject.
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You might consider this "post whoring" but I really would like to know what you meant by this as well. I suppose if you stretched the definition of
censorship, maybe.
I'm not saying I don't agree with you on some things but I really just don't get that statement.
Also, I think we should ALL just relax a little bit. This is just an online forum. Maybe would could put all of this energy into the chemistry
sections, eh?
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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froot
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Just keep things simple, splitting hairs between what postwhoring is and what's borderline and what's acceptable is wasting everyone's time. To the
tune Chemoleo is whistling, I say if a post does not benefit anyone and the topic in any way, chuck the rubbish and keep the topic progressing as
intended. Mods don't have to explain themselves to anyone and if they feel the necessity to get a topic back on track then so be it for the benefit of
the rest of us. If your post gets removed, shame, there was obviously a reason for it so think before you type next time. If you are still not sure,
there is the Detritus section that may give you a little direction. Simple.
The term UTFSE is there for a very good reason, just like the FSE is there for a very good reason. Take that MEKP topic for example, it's becoming
contaminated with crap from people that can't get their synths right which has been discussed before. Using this board to eliminate errors in their
working while straying from the synth in the first place is bullshit. "I managed to synthesise it in a different way like this" is far more appealing
to me than "it won't work, why?" UTFSE - simple.
I am very impressed with the quality of this board and have learned plenty here, from a scientific and a forum ettiquette point of view. Appropriatly
I remember a similar topic as this on here years ago where someone quoted this gem.
http://www.netalive.org/mirror/wanker.html
Can't remembr who it was but I have kept it close by since then and used it on my site before to 'direct' things a little. Thanks to whoever it was
for that link.
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
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MagicJigPipe
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"UTFSE" gets thrown around a lot when it doesn't apply. Not to mention it's just plain fucking rude. "Use the fucking search engine you fucking
piece of shit!!" is what I get from it. Maybe we could just say UTSE please, you know?
One example is the first post I made on this forum. I searched the forum and google for my answer and found nothing but the first thing I was greeted
with was "UTFSE!". I just don't think it's a good way to "welcome" people to this forum. Many people that come here have never used an online forum
before and they make mistakes. We shouldn't expect them to know everything about forum etiquette right off the bat and because of that we shouldn't
chastise them for doing something wrong. I just don't see what is so hard with politely saying, "Hey, we don't do this sort of thing here and here's
why, please take note of this in the future".
Also, yes, moderators don't have to be polite or allow people second chances without tearing new assholes but I consider it general human decency to
start out with politeness. Then, if the person keeps it up maybe get a little more stern.
I don't know, I've always just been really easy going and I don't understand why people would want to be assholish about anything. It only causes
static. Things just seem to run more smoothly in a relaxed but semi-strict atmosphere. That's the key I think, let's just relax and enjoy talking
about chemistry and if someone seriously impedes on that, then punish them without being an asshole.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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vulture
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| Quote: |
Also, yes, moderators don't have to be polite or allow people second chances without tearing new assholes but I consider it general human decency to
start out with politeness. Then, if the person keeps it up maybe get a little more stern. |
I also consider it general human decency to start out with:
- using various search engines properly (FAR less effort than registering and posting)
- putting some effort into your posts; like spelling & grammar to start with
- putting in some effort of yourself, don't have us make your homework or write your research project
- not demanding people to email the answers (now that is RUDE on a discussion board)
- posting in the right section
- not crossposting your question or repeatedly demanding answers
Unfortunately, this is usually too much to ask for.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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MagicJigPipe
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Yes, I agree but I don't think we should scream at someone simply because it appears like they want to be spoonfed. When I first came to SM it had
been years since I participated at an online forum and I was clueless as to how to act and how to post. If I wasn't so interested in chemistry, I
would have left and never looked back because of the "abuse" I endured. I don't think we should make people feel like they should leave just because
they don't have forum experience. It's not something you can learn by just reading a list of rules.
It's kind of like being the new kid at school. Of course you will fuck up but if people are nice about helping you learn the ropes, hopefully, you
won't become an outcast.
Now, the completely obvious stuff that people do to abuse the forum is different. That behavior should be delt with appropriately but you can't
expect everyone to know exactly what is acceptable and what isn't as soon as they make their first post.
IMO, so called "post whoring" should be delt with by deletion of posts only if the post adds ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the conversation, otherwise, it
should be considered unacceptable censorship. Just as "post whoring" can become out of control so can deletion of posts and should be done with the
utmost restraint.
The line between censorship and losing control is a difficult one to walk. If only there was a way to run a "democratic" forum where people could
vote and express their concerns before questionable posts (not obvious trash posts) were deleted or censored or before people were banned (or topics
placed in detritus). Unfortunately, I don't see that as being practical with the current forum software and/or beliefs of some of the mods.
Maybe we can already do that by only deleting things that are reported a certain amount of times?
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3245
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
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Honestly I think the report button is a much more civil option than most larger forums have. On some if the report button is dinged multiple times
for a single post it gets deleted without intervention, at least here there is the human element where someone will actually look at the post and see
if it is crap or not before deleting it.
I think it has been established that if a post adds nothing to a discussion or detracts from a topic (i.e. by being completely off topic) that most
people agree it should be deleted. I don't even know why the matter is still being debated by some, per the Sciencemadness FAQ:
| Quote: | | They (the moderators) are here to discuss Mad Science and to maintain an atmosphere conducive to that discussion. They have the power to move
misplaced threads, lock or delete inappropriate threads, and (as a last resort) delete/ban existing accounts. |
They are permitted to do what is necessary to 'maintain an atmosphere conducive to discussion' I.e., if your post is crap, if your post tries to
derail a topic, if they think that your post hurts the thread, they can delete it, heck, they can even ban you. Having an account at this forum can
be considered a privilege that you can loose, and there have been members who have lost that privilege.
Really I mentioned the UTFSE example as a post whoring trait because it hurts the new members. We are not out to punish new members. They make
mistakes, post in the wrong forums, etc. But they are expected to learn because if they don't have the gray matter in their heads to learn from
simple mistakes like that, then maybe they should practice some softer more forgiving science like free-style poetry.
This may be a form of censorship, but those censorships exist in all media. You don't say the F-word on public television and you don't post crap on
sciencemadness. And if you feel your freedom of speech is being cramped, believe it or not you have the freedom to leave the forum, or start a
website berating sciencemadness for infringing on your ability to express yourself.
Get to it mods, delete the crap, and I think the only people that will miss it are the ones posting it.
[Edited on 1/31/2008 by BromicAcid]
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chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
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One more clarification
| Quote: |
Yes, I agree but I don't think we should scream at someone simply because it appears like they want to be spoonfed. |
This is mostly a matter concerning our very members, rarely that of the 'staff'. I'd still insist that this is rarely the case.
Let me just explain one thing - the issue of deleting posts has come up before, and it was quite unanimously 'voted' that crap posts should be
deleted, see one of the above linked threads.
This indicates that this is a generally perceived problem.
In reality, I regret to say, this happened extremely rarely; I for one deleted no more than a handful of posts over 24 months, and these were
atrocious.
However: The problem hasn't disappeared.
Many people have been complaining, rightly so. I noticed the deterioration, particularly the change over 6 months whilst I had no internet. This is
like seeing your old brother after several months/years, and noticing several good and/or bad changes. You speak to him about it.
And this is the time.
It's time to separate the wheat from the chaff.
All the bickering about definitions of a good post et cetera, boil down to one thing alone:
The forum other than Whimsy is NOT an IM conversation where you can write anything
random that just pops into your head, it is a documentation of topic-related experiences, knowledge, and advice so that it may be of use to others.
Write good informative posts and you have ZERO REASON to complain about potential deletions, in any threads of any nature.
Write bad, unrelated, outrageous (within limits hehe) whimsical posts, put them into Whimsy (Please don't make me explain this any further :-/ )
Write bad useless posts in forums other than Whimsy, many times, then face their deletion. And don't you dare complaining.
Again, what's so difficult about it?
No excuses.
Welcome back to a quality forum!
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
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Okay, good. One more thing to clear up though.
If someone is not an "expert" in a particular field of chemistry should he/she be excluded and/or refrain from posting in threads related to that
field?
For example: Let's say I frequent a sports forum and someone makes a post on American football and in that thread someone says "Joe Montana was the
greatest quarterback that ever lived". So, I, realizing that not everyone knows about football or even who Joe Montana is, say "Joe Montana played
quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers and the Kansas City Cheifs from the 70s to the early 90s. A quarterback is an offensive position that usually
calls the plays in huddle, after which he receives the ball and can run down the field or pass to another player on his team".
Then someone says "You are an idiot, everyone already knows that and your post doesn't help at all. Everyone who is interested in football should
know who Joe Montana is and the definition of a quarterback is standard information".
Is he correct and if so, should I have refrained from making that post?
[Edited on 1-2-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8012
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
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If you really want to write something obvious, of which you think everyone knows, then just don't write it. If someone else really does not know, but
is interested, then that person can add a message to the thread and then you can respond. Of course, if someone is asking for something really
obvious, like asking the chemical formula of water, then such a person may be warned about that and asked to do some searching next time. In such
situations, I give the answer, but at the same time also ask him to change behavior next time.
It is all a matter of common sense, and there is not a single answer, which fits all situations. With every post, think twice and reread your post
before you press the "Post reply" button.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
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Okay, do most people on this forum consider peptide chemistry and the related reagent abbreviations and structures standard knowledge and/or
completely obvious?
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Where the hell are you going with this? I'm sure you can come up with exceptions till we're all having violent fits.
[Edited on 1-2-2008 by vulture]
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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