dann2
International Hazard
Posts: 1523
Registered: 31-1-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ammonium Ferric Oxalate
Hello,
Can anyone suggest how I might obtain Ammonium Ferric Oxalate from some of the more 'mundane availables'?
Cheers,
Dann2
|
|
|
12AX7
Post Harlot
Posts: 4803
Registered: 8-3-2005
Location: oscillating
Member Is Offline
Mood: informative
|
|
Dissolve ferric oxide in oxalic acid. Neutralize ammonia with oxalic acid. Mix solutions, then grow crystals.
Tim
|
|
|
dann2
International Hazard
Posts: 1523
Registered: 31-1-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hello,
Thanks Tim, can get Ferric from heating Ferrous Sulphate.
You can purchase Oxalic acid from decorating shop, forget what they use it for.
Have Ammonia.
Attempting to make Magnetite anode with Ti substrate BTW.
Cheers,
Dann2
|
|
|
not_important
International Hazard
Posts: 3873
Registered: 21-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The Encyclopædic Dictionary of Photography
By Walter E. Woodbury
Published 1896
The Scovill & Adams company
FERRIC AMMONIUM OXALATE (Formula Fe2(NH4)2(C2O4.. Synonyms, ammonia oxalate of iron).—Occurs in green very soluble crystals which should be kept in
the dark as when exposed to light they become more or less oxidized, which fact is made use of in the " blue " or cyanotype and the platinotype
processes. It can be prepared by dissolving 3 ounces of oxalic acid in 8 ounces of water, raise to 100 degs. C., and saturated with moist ferric
hydrate, avoiding excess. Filter the solution thus obtained and neutralize with ammonia, filter and evaporate to dryness at 100 degs. C.
|
|
|
Xenoid
National Hazard
Posts: 775
Registered: 14-6-2007
Location: Springs Junction, New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: Comfortably Numb
|
|
@ Dann2
Ferric oxide is usually available from pottery suppliers and is also used extensively for colouring concrete. Most companies that do "fancy" concrete
work, such as imprinting and colouring should have it.
You may find the oxalates fizz up a bit when heated. I've experimented with plain tartrates for Sb and they almost foam, and would leave a very uneven
coating!
|
|
|
dann2
International Hazard
Posts: 1523
Registered: 31-1-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hello,
I am working along the lines of here:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/5361/chlorate/...
I have already tried this with a coating of Fe on Ti and heated at about 1000C for about 3 hours with steam.
The Ti sagged!!
I obtained three bend 'anodes'. The were completely passivated whit a bright yellow Ti oxide where there was no Iron. Where there was Iron it had
turned to Magnetite (I guess it was magnetite) with a layer of the Ti oxide underneath.
Temp. far too high. Will try at lower temp., with FAO if I get around to making it.
Dann3
[Edited on 22-12-2007 by dann2]
|
|
|
dann2
International Hazard
Posts: 1523
Registered: 31-1-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi,
| Quote: | Originally posted by not_important
The Encyclopædic Dictionary of Photography
By Walter E. Woodbury
Published 1896
The Scovill & Adams company
FERRIC AMMONIUM OXALATE (Formula Fe2(NH4)2(C2O4.. Synonyms, ammonia oxalate of iron).—Occurs in green very .............. |
Is this formula quoted correctly. I fing on the web that it is:
(NH4)3Fe(C2O4)3:3H2O
Also what is Ferric Hydrate?
Can't seem to find a compound as such. Is it a hydrated Ferric Oxide as per this:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/n2r7515232686537/
TIA,
Dann2
[Edited on 27-1-2008 by dann2]
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
Not sure 12AX how that would work with Fe2O3, it is not exactly well soluble in anything...
You could start from Fe(OH)3 instead.
At LS, see http://www.lambdasyn.org/synfiles/kaliumtrioxalatoferrat.htm , bottom procedure using FeCl3.
This is for the potassium salt but I'm sure this could be employed with ammonium oxalate too.
I.e. 5.3 g (19.61 mmol) iron(III)-chloride-Hexahydrate in 8 ml H2O is added to a warm solution of 12 g (65.13 mmol) potassium oxalate-Monohydrat in 20
ml H2O. The solution is cooled to 0 °C and kept at this temp for crystallisation for a while. The crystals are redissolved in 15 ml warm water and
recrystallised. Yield 6.4 g, 66% of theory.
[Edited on 27-1-2008 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
dann2
International Hazard
Posts: 1523
Registered: 31-1-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hello,
The Fe2O3 would not dissolve in the Oxalic acid when cold. I decided to reflux to see and most of it dissolved. I then added twice the stioci amount
of Oxalic and all Fe2O3 dissolved. Perhaps if I refluxed longer with the stioci amound to Oxalic it would have all dissolved without adding a second
amount of Oxalic. I refluxed initally for about 12 hours.
I am going to try to make the FAO using Ferric Chloride, Oxalic and Ammonia (second time round!). I already tried and it seems to be OK but I made a
mistake and added far too much Ferric Chloride.
Dann2
|
|
|
not_important
International Hazard
Posts: 3873
Registered: 21-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | | This is for the potassium salt but I'm sure this could be employed with ammonium oxalate too. |
Check the respective solubilities, the ammonium salt may be sufficiently more soluble to reduce the yields. Data I have shows NH4 at 5 to 10 times
more soluble than the potassium salt.
[Edited on 18-2-2008 by not_important]
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8014
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
The potassium salt is much easier to prepare, because of its much lower solubility. The ammonium salt can easily be obtained from multiple arts and
photography sellers and hardly is worth the effort to make yourself. I have 100 gram of the salt:
This stuff can be purchased (it is not expensive) from http://www.artcraftchemicals.com and it is not a hazmat chemical. It can be shipped worldwide at low cost. I have my material also from this
seller. I indeed use it for cyanotype-like processes and experiments. It works better dan citrate-based chemicals.
Edit(woelen): Made link to picture working again.
[Edited on 30-7-16 by woelen]
|
|
|
Nitrous2000
Hazard to Self
Posts: 59
Registered: 1-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by dann2  | Hi,
| Quote: | Originally posted by not_important
The Encyclopædic Dictionary of Photography
By Walter E. Woodbury
Published 1896
The Scovill & Adams company
FERRIC AMMONIUM OXALATE (Formula Fe2(NH4)2(C2O4.. Synonyms, ammonia oxalate of iron).—Occurs in green very .............. |
Is this formula quoted correctly. I fing on the web that it is:
(NH4)3Fe(C2O4)3:3H2O
Also what is Ferric Hydrate?
Can't seem to find a compound as such. Is it a hydrated Ferric Oxide as per this:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/n2r7515232686537/
TIA,
Dann2
[Edited on 27-1-2008 by dann2] |
I believe ferric hydrate is also known as ferric hydroxide.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
