VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
Posts: 719
Registered: 1-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fullerenes
|
|
Looking for Long Chain Alcohols or Ketones
I am looking for long chain alcohols and ketones. Does anyone have any recommendations on what to looks for? Alkenes and aryl compounds will not do.
So far I have considered and found sources for:
n-butyl alcohol
t-butyl alcohol
Methyl ethyl ketone
acetone
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6325
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
I don't think any of these qualify as long chain.
You did not specify what application you want them for. It might be that you have to make them yourself -- time to learn about Grignards.
As a starting point you might want to look at some of Nurdrage's recent videos where he produced some branched long-chain alcohols for his sodium
production experiments. Then, if you feel this kind of technique is within your reach, do a bit of reading on the background theory and practice.
Then prepare your equipment and go for it.
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You can simply buy them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetostearyl_alcohol
What do you want them for?
|
|
|
wg48
National Hazard
Posts: 821
Registered: 21-11-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Cetostearyl Alcohol from ebay uk £11/kg.
Borosilicate glass:
Good temperature resistance and good thermal shock resistance but finite.
For normal, standard service typically 200-230°C, for short-term (minutes) service max 400°C
Maximum thermal shock resistance is 160°C
|
|
|
VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
Posts: 719
Registered: 1-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fullerenes
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  | I don't think any of these qualify as long chain.
You did not specify what application you want them for. It might be that you have to make them yourself -- time to learn about Grignards.
As a starting point you might want to look at some of Nurdrage's recent videos where he produced some branched long-chain alcohols for his sodium
production experiments. Then, if you feel this kind of technique is within your reach, do a bit of reading on the background theory and practice.
Then prepare your equipment and go for it. |
I would like the application to be kept a secret for now but expect a publication in a month or two, but it involve avoiding Grignards- no gringards
can be used.
Cetyl alcohol looks like a great option. I think that it might be perfect.
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
|
|
|
Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
|
|
Behenyl alcohol (22 carbons) would be even longer, and is also commercially available (although I can't find any of the pure compound on Ebay, just
skin creams that contain it).
|
|
|
VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
Posts: 719
Registered: 1-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fullerenes
|
|
Purity is a bonus. I think that cetyl alcohol will do. That leaves us with ketones. MEK is the longest chained ketone I can find.
What about secondary alcohols I might able to oxidize to ketones?
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Dehydrate the cetyl alcohol, and rehydrate the alkene to get the 2-ol
Or convert it to a grignard and then react that with acetaldehyde.
You should be able to get MIBK and diacetone alcohol, but how useful those are depends on what you seek to do.
|
|
|
VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
Posts: 719
Registered: 1-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fullerenes
|
|
http://www.prepchem.com/synthesis-of-diacetone-alcohol/
Diacetone alcohol would be great but it seems a bit difficult to make. I want what I am working on to the accessible to other amateurs. Barium
hydroxide, anhydrous potassium carbonate, and dry acetone is a bit too much to ask. It does however have the added bonus of being a tertiary alcohol,
which might prove useful in other regards.
Are there any OTC or online sources of Methyl isobutyl ketone? That seems promising.
As a side note I found this well searching: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MEKP-Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone-Peroxide-H...
I did not know you could buy that.
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
|
|
|
JJay
International Hazard
Posts: 3440
Registered: 15-10-2015
Member Is Offline
|
|
I've had a heck of a time finding n-butanol in OTC products, and I think I will have to buy it.
|
|
|
walruslover69
Hazard to Others
Posts: 233
Registered: 21-12-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I believe calcium hydroxide could be substituted for barium hydroxide in the diacetone alcohol synthesis. You would still need a soxhlet extractor
though.
|
|
|
VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
Posts: 719
Registered: 1-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fullerenes
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by JJay | | I've had a heck of a time finding n-butanol in OTC products, and I think I will have to buy it. |
I have about a liter of it right now but I need to get more. The only source I had is sold out on Amazon and I am afraid of them not restocking. Apart
from that you can import it from the UK (maybe someone can set up a group buy its ~50 USD for 5 liters + shipping from the UK to US). There is also
isobutyl acetate and other esters that are in some products.
| Quote: Originally posted by walruslover69 | I believe calcium hydroxide could be substituted for barium hydroxide in the diacetone alcohol synthesis. You would still need a soxhlet extractor
though.
|
I have a pressure equalizing funnel that I could use instead. NerdRage, the chemistry prophet it seems, did a video on it. If that is indeed the case
I should try it. I will also have to try using sodium carbonate in lieu of potassium carbonate. Acetone is cheap enough that any yield is acceptable.
When/if I do it I will make a separate publication about it.
[Edited on 9-7-2018 by VSEPR_VOID]
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
|
|
|
CobaltChloride
Hazard to Others
Posts: 239
Registered: 3-3-2018
Location: Romania
Member Is Offline
|
|
At least where I live, n-butanol is present in a couple of OTC products:
-as a denaturant in some brands of rubbing alcohol
-as a major component in some brands of nitrocellulose resins thinner/ general paint thinner
Maybe you could also find it in these sources
|
|
|
JJay
International Hazard
Posts: 3440
Registered: 15-10-2015
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride | At least where I live, n-butanol is present in a couple of OTC products:
-as a denaturant in some brands of rubbing alcohol
-as a major component in some brands of nitrocellulose resins thinner/ general paint thinner
Maybe you could also find it in these sources
|
It's not hard to find chemical suppliers who are willing to sell it, but it's hard to find anyone willing to ship it as a consumer commodity, and I'd
rather not pay a hazmat fee for it.
|
|
|
VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
Posts: 719
Registered: 1-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fullerenes
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by JJay | | Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride | At least where I live, n-butanol is present in a couple of OTC products:
-as a denaturant in some brands of rubbing alcohol
-as a major component in some brands of nitrocellulose resins thinner/ general paint thinner
Maybe you could also find it in these sources
|
It's not hard to find chemical suppliers who are willing to sell it, but it's hard to find anyone willing to ship it as a consumer commodity, and I'd
rather not pay a hazmat fee for it. |
https://www.ebay.com/itm/n-Butanol-99-4-ACS-5-Litre-Butyl-Al...
This is the best source I can find. I would be happy to do a group buy on it. shipping it. I could do with a few litters of it so all I need is
someone in the UK who is willing to forward it to me.
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
|
|
|
walruslover69
Hazard to Others
Posts: 233
Registered: 21-12-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
After looking into it alittle more it seems there are a lot of catalysts for the condensation reaction with aceteone to produce diacetone alcohol. I
read that molecular sieves can also work. Calcium hydroxide is still not a bad choice. Using molecular sieves will produce some mesityl oxide through
the dehydration reaction but since acetone is cheap yield isn't that big of a concern. You could also just use magnesium sulfate to dry the acetone.
Pretty much anything will work.
[Edited on 10-7-2018 by walruslover69]
|
|
|
CobaltChloride
Hazard to Others
Posts: 239
Registered: 3-3-2018
Location: Romania
Member Is Offline
|
|
Actually, barium hydroxide is a lot more soluble than calcium hydroxide, so that isn't the reason they use Ba(OH)2
|
|
|
walruslover69
Hazard to Others
Posts: 233
Registered: 21-12-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ya, I probably should have checked that. It must just be that its a stronger base.
|
|
|
VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
Posts: 719
Registered: 1-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fullerenes
|
|
The literature says that I would need to reflux the acetone for 100 hours. I will have to figure out how to do that. I have work and don not want to
leave a boiling flask of highly flammable gas and liquid in my house. I do not have any calcium or barium hydroxide but I am sure I could order some
quick lime or make it from calcium chloride (which I also need to buy).
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
