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Tsjerk
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Platinum wire
Anyone interested in platinum wire? I have 3x approximately 7 cm of about 0,2 mm (I guess). Free of cost but I can only send it within the EU.
Just post a good reason why you want to have them and they are yours.
They are leftovers from the lab I work in. They come from the electrodes from these chambers. The connections between the lid and the electrodes are completely gone, but the platinum wires are fine.
Reply fast though, as I only have excess to them until tomorrow (14 Oct) 5 pm (local time).
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woelen
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I certainly am interested. I would like to experiment with electrolysis experiments with exotic materials but I am reluctant to use my MMO electrodes
for that, because that may "poison" my electrodes and may render them useless. With the platinum wires I could do interesting experiments, such as
electrolysing selenites, tellurates, and other exotics to see what kind of reactions I get at the electrodes.
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Pumukli
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I would also be interested if you still had a few centimeters. :-)
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Jstuyfzand
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well if it has too go I guess my home will treat them with love and affection...
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aga
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Does this feel like steal-to-order, or is it just my catholic upbringing ?
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Tsjerk
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Sounds like they are going to Woelen! You had me at selenites and tellurates, please keep us posted on the results!.
@Aga: Don't worry, if I wouldn't give them away they would end up in the waste. I think 90% of the people walking around here don't have a clue about
what the wire is made of and/or what you can do with it. They would toss it in the bin without a second thought.
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Tsjerk
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Does anyone have an idea about what 85/15 platinum/iridium would do as an anode/cathode? We have a lot of those and we trow them away before they are
not suitable for electrolysis anymore.
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/i0889?lang...
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Sulaiman
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please throw two in my direction. 
according to wikipedia, the iridium hardens the platinum yet chemical inertness is maintained.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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Dr.Bob
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I have seen people throw away many very valuable items because, a) they don't know what it is worth, and b) the company does not have a mechanism to
recover the value easily, and c) even if the employee figures out how to recycle/sell it, the company gets the money in many cases, and almost never
thanks the employee. I have seen gold, pt, silver and many other metals and salts disposed of as waste, plus other exotic material, such as PTFE
type seals, membranes, and gaskets. IBM for one, used to use $800 PTFE membrane filters to clean up isopropanol and toluene for clean room use, but
then discarded them as haz waste, even though the filters had barely been used at all. It was the equivalent of using an oil filter for one trip in
you car and then replacing it. Pfizer had about $80,000 of gold powder/salts disappear from a lab when they laid everyone in it off, and they later
were cleaning up the empty labs. I have seen million dollar equipment bought and then sent for auction before ever getting installed, due to
corporate mergers/closures/reorgs. (that was in old job, not current one where we don't have that much money to spend, ever.) One drug company
built a whole clinical trial surgery suite for animal study cadiovascular testing, at $4million, then decided that they were getting out of that area
and ripped the entire facility out within months of finishing it. So $100 worth of Pt is barely on the radar at many places.
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Tsjerk
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I think I will hold on to the 85/15 Pt/Ir myself. I would like to see if I can do some electrochemical reductions of organic compounds in organic
solvents... The anode/cathodes I have, I only have to build a chamber that is up to the solvents.
Going to reduce some alkenes and some nitro's
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Tsjerk
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Looks like chamber doesn't it?
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phlogiston
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Interesting, we use the same loops in our lab but I always thought they were nickel. We already salvage platinum tubes that are used to suck cell
culture medium from the flasks (but break very often because it they are thin-walled and very soft), so it would be easy to add these loops to the
same waste stream. Thanks for mentioning it.
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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Tsjerk
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I think this could actually work as an electrical cell. The solution it is standing in right now is 25% acetic acid, 50 % ethanol, 8,33% sulfuric acid
and the rest water. Lets see if the agarose and or the tubes are still there tomorrow. 2% agarose in 1 M NaCl btw.
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woelen
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Platinum/iridium indeed is very nice stuff. Keep the loops yourself and do interesting experiments with them. Do not allow these valuable items to be
thrown away.
Pt/Ir alloy apparently is somewhat tougher than Pt alone and its shape is more stable (it acts more like a spring, while Pt can be bent all over
without moving back when the bending force is removed), but this comes at the cost of somewhat less chemical inertness. For many purposes, however,
15% Ir in the alloy is not that bad and it still is sufficiently inert.
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Tsjerk
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What I noticed is that the iridium alloy suffers less from mechanical stress. Pure platinum broke quite easily in my hands, while the iridium alloy is
easy to bend and never broke in years while manipulating it regularly.
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Fleaker
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Woelen,
I would actually say that platinum-iridium and platinum-rhodium alloys are far, far more corrosion resistant than pure platinum. Oddly, the platinum
lowers the corrosion resistance of the Rh and Ir and make them go into solution somewhat. Some partially dissolves, some stays in the residue and must
be treated by pressure chlorination. For instance, when I go to dissolve up platinum sheet and clippings at work, they dissolve in a day or two in
refluxing aqua regia. But if I take wires made from type S, R, or B thermocouple which are anywhere from 10-20% Rh on one junction, you can see the
platium wire dissolve in a few hours but the other leg will take 5 or 6 days to dissolve.
Iridium is an effective hardening agent for platinum, not as good as Ru, or Rh but decent. Usually it goes from 60/70 HV to 110/120 HV but will help
it work harden. Pure iridium itself is not very easily deformed. Once I melted some up and hit it with a hammer cool. Shattered like glass but also
deformed the hammer!
Tsjerk, pure platinum is very ductile...it should not break and takes a lot of mechanical bending to fatigue it. Now if the platinum were contaminated
with lead, it cracks and breaks. Platinum (and PtIr/Rh alloys) can be distinguished from other metals by heating it white hot and letting it cool. It
looks the same before and after and does not gain or lose mass appreciably.
Does anyone think there's much use for Pt wire and foil here on SMDB? Every time I look on ebay it is going for multiples of spot price.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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yobbo II
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Platinum Iridium thermocouple wire is an outrageous price on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-wire-010-pure-99-99-Thermoc...
10 dollars per inch for 10 thou stuff 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Platinum-13-Rhodium-Thermocouple-Wir...
Platinum rhodium stuff for 3 dollars per inch for 5 thou stuff
15 dollars per inch for 20 thou stuff
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Morgan
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Here's some thin stuff.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sigmund-Cohn-Wollaston-Wire-0-00001-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wollaston_wire
"Invisible Platinum Wire"
https://books.google.com/books?id=5KTmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA193&...
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woelen
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Quote: Originally posted by Fleaker  | Woelen,
I would actually say that platinum-iridium and platinum-rhodium alloys are far, far more corrosion resistant than pure platinum. Oddly, the platinum
lowers the corrosion resistance of the Rh and Ir and make them go into solution somewhat. Some partially dissolves, some stays in the residue and must
be treated by pressure chlorination. For instance, when I go to dissolve up platinum sheet and clippings at work, they dissolve in a day or two in
refluxing aqua regia. But if I take wires made from type S, R, or B thermocouple which are anywhere from 10-20% Rh on one junction, you can see the
platium wire dissolve in a few hours but the other leg will take 5 or 6 days to dissolve.
Iridium is an effective hardening agent for platinum, not as good as Ru, or Rh but decent. Usually it goes from 60/70 HV to 110/120 HV but will help
it work harden. Pure iridium itself is not very easily deformed. Once I melted some up and hit it with a hammer cool. Shattered like glass but also
deformed the hammer!
Tsjerk, pure platinum is very ductile...it should not break and takes a lot of mechanical bending to fatigue it. Now if the platinum were contaminated
with lead, it cracks and breaks. Platinum (and PtIr/Rh alloys) can be distinguished from other metals by heating it white hot and letting it cool. It
looks the same before and after and does not gain or lose mass appreciably.
Does anyone think there's much use for Pt wire and foil here on SMDB? Every time I look on ebay it is going for multiples of spot price.
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Interesting read. I always was in the impression that iridium is somewhat less corrosion resistant than platinum. But alloys of the metals may behave
different than the pure metals. Anyway, good to learn about this. Is this inertness also the case for strong heating (e.g. in flame coloration
experiments)?
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Sulaiman
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Fleaker
"Does anyone think there's much use for Pt wire and foil here on SMDB? Every time I look on ebay it is going for multiples of spot price."
as Pt wire and foil are so useful and expensive, yet cheap and legal to post,
I'm sure that many of us would pay spot price, what can you offer ?
electrochemistry electrodes, platinum group chemistry, catalysts, element collections ...
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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Fleaker
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No, iridium is absurdly corrosion resistant. Based on my experience, if I put a cubic cm of stainless 316, one of gold, one of platinum, and one of
iridium into refluxing aqua regia, the stainless would be gone within hours, the gold within a day, the platinum within a week, the iridium would be
there for years. I would speculate
When I go to process it, I have to melt it with nickel/copper. A sample of that is taken and pressure digested with sodium chlorate/HCl at a few
thousand PSI before anlaysis on ICP-OES. The bulk is granulated and that goes into aqua regia. The black residue remains after the nickel or copper is
removed and has a much higher surface area. That gets filtered off, mixed with three times its weight in HCl and chlorinated at 500 C in a tube
furnace over 6-7 h. That makes water soluble sodium chloroiridate. That can then be extracted into tributylphosphate and stripped out and precipitated
as its hydroxide which is then post reduced in H2 to give Ir powder.
As for what is available---I can roll out 99,9-99,999 % pure Pt into sheet, draw it into wire, make it into salts, catalysts, etc. The issue is the
profit vs time expenditure on small quantities. I'd rather stick to just stock items (i.e fine Pt wire 0.1-1 mm thickness or Pt foil) that I can just
cut to length.
I'll give you an example: the invisible platinum wire, Wollaston wire, is VERY labor intensive to make and retails for 28,000-32,000 USD/gram. It gets
used for odd materials science research, microscope probes, instrument cross hairs, and other exceedingly delicate things.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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Morgan
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Is there an easy way to to tell if platinum is alloyed with iridium or some other metal? The reason I ask is that I bought these platinum boats
several years ago on eBay and the seller stated in the offer that he didn't know if they were pure platinum or alloyed. I heated one and it remained
glowing in a methanol vapor and all but that didn't tell me much. They're three just above the round gauze/screens and they feel heavy for their tiny
size.
http://www.pulse-jets.com/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=4915
[Edited on 17-10-2016 by Morgan]
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battoussai114
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You want a non-destructive way? Maybe spectroscopy. Otherwise I'd test the chemical resistance as pointed by Fleaker.
Batoussai.
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Cezium
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Morgan> XRF, I use it to test more expensive element samples that I bought on ebay.
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Morgan
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Thanks for the replies. It's not important, it was just a curiosity if iridium would give itself away or be able to be detected in platinum by some
simple characteristic but since all the PGMs tend to have the same properties it was a long shot in asking. I don't have any project lined up for
them, but I did snip the corners of one to flatten it out thinking to use it as an electrode or maybe some partial function in a platinum catalyst
lighter/glow plug device such as this but very tiny and without the need for a battery while robust enough to hold up without being too fragile. I
think he had NASA wind some .005ths Pt wire on a ceramic post but don't quote me.
http://www.smartplugs.com/news/aeronews0900.htm
http://www.smartplugs.com/news/Spinoff2001-SmartPlug.pdf
Here I used some platinum sponge and wire from a catalytic lighter and a piece of gold plated nickel wire to hang the tiny bead on the lip of the jar.
The two piece lid allowed for tightening the lid without disturbing the "ornament" hidden and dangling from the lip. Anyway it was really fun to just
eyedropper some methanol into the jar and wait about 10 seconds and suddenly the jam jar jet springs to life out of the blue running about 20 cycles
per second. But the little bead and delicate wire is too fragile to last in this environment. I think the Pt wire connected to the bead is about .001
or half that. The bead heats the wire, the wire lights the methanol. The bead cannot light the methanol and wire can't heat up on its own.
http://www.pulse-jets.com/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=5206
http://www.pulse-jets.com/phpbb3/download/file.php?id=5207
[Edited on 18-10-2016 by Morgan]
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