j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6320
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
Quantity of plutonium
Russia suspends plutonium deal with US www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37539616
34 tonnes! That is a freaking huge amount. I recall watching a periodicvideos vid on Pu where someone famously spilled Britain's year-long supply of
10 milligrams (or was it micrograms) and by cutting a hole in the desk and burning it to ashes managed to recover 90% of it. Consequently I have
always thought of Pu as an element worked with in small quantities -- even though I know it is used in weapons and breeder reactors. But 34 tonnes!
Sheesh! That's a whole lot of banger material. Enough to power an awful lot of space probes.
[Edited on 4-10-2016 by j_sum1]
|
|
|
violet sin
International Hazard
Posts: 1480
Registered: 2-9-2012
Location: Daydreaming of uraninite...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Good
|
|
My late night calculations put that at 1.19 meter cube roughly. 2:24am in my defence if I got that wrong.
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3692
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
8,000 nukes-worth ... an extinction-level quantity,
or
enough to poison all of humanity
happy days 
[Edited on 4-10-2016 by Sulaiman]
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1716
Registered: 24-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bored
|
|
A 1.2m cube (or 1.5m sphere) sounds about right.
Not suitable for space probes though, those are powered by Pu238. This is Pu239.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The critical radius of Pu-239 is about 5 cm and the critical mass is just under 10 kilograms, according to http://www.osti.gov/scitech/servlets/purl/4343045/
So a 1.2 meter cube wouldn't last very long!
|
|
|
pantone159
National Hazard
Posts: 590
Registered: 27-6-2006
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: desperate for shade
|
|
The spill of the entire national supply (and it was probably micrograms) was probably back in WWII when only tiny quantities were available. At first,
Pu had to be produced by cyclotron, before the breeder reactor was operational, and the amounts were miniscule. Special techniques for working with
and measuring extremely small quantities of material had to be worked out.
|
|
|
careysub
International Hazard
Posts: 1339
Registered: 4-8-2014
Location: Coastal Sage Scrub Biome
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lowest quantum state
|
|
Aww... they just want to make 340 billion RID-6M smoke detectors (assuming that the newer model only uses 0.1 mg of plutonium):
http://www.periodictable.ru/094Pu/Pu_en.html
(Also interesting to note that producing that amount of plutonium required producing 140 kg of surplus neutrons.)
[Edited on 4-10-2016 by careysub]
About that which we cannot speak, we must remain silent.
-Wittgenstein
Some things can never be spoken
Some things cannot be pronounced
That word does not exist in any language
It will never be uttered by a human mouth
- The Talking Heads
|
|
|
mayko
International Hazard
Posts: 1218
Registered: 17-1-2013
Location: Carrboro, NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: anomalous (Euclid class)
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  | I recall watching a periodicvideos vid on Pu where someone famously spilled Britain's year-long supply of 10 milligrams (or was it micrograms) and by
cutting a hole in the desk and burning it to ashes managed to recover 90% of it.
|
hey, it could be worse... they didn't have to recover it from their own stomach contents
| Quote: |
A purplish-color liquid that gave off an eerie, animallike warmth when concentrated in larger amounts, the plutonium in the vial had undergone an
unanticipated transformation overnight. Some of the liquid had been converted into gas and was pushing against the walls of the bottle. Other
molecules were tunneling into the sides of the glass itself.
Unaware of the small bomb he was holding, Mastick snapped the slender neck of the vial. It made a small, popping sound in the quiet laboratory.
Instantly the material spewed out of the bottle and onto the wall in front of him. Some of the solution ricocheted back into his mouth, flooding his
lips and tongue with a metallic taste.
Not overly alarmed, Mastick replaced the vial in its wooden container. Then he trotted across the hard-packed ground of the technical area to knock on
the door of Dr. Hempelmann's first-aid station. He had just swallowed a significant amount of the world's supply of plutonium. "I could taste the acid
so I knew perfectly well I had a little bit of plutonium in my mouth," he said in an interview in 1995.
|
| Quote: |
Speaking on a secure telephone line from his office at the Manhattan Project's headquarters in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, Warren tried to calm Hempelmann
down. He thought about the accident for a moment and then suggested that the young doctor try using a mouthwash and expectorant to remove the
plutonium from the chemist's mouth. Hempelmann hung up and hurried back to the examining room where he prepared two mixtures. The first was a sodium
citrate solution that would chemically combine with the plutonium in Mastick's mouth to form a soluble liquid; the second was a bicarbonate rinse that
would render the material insoluble again.
Mastick swished the solutions around in his mouth and then spit them into a beaker. The first mouthful contained almost one-half microgram of
plutonium. A microgram of plutonium, which is a millionth of a gram, was considered in 1945 to be the maximum amount of plutonium that could be
retained in the human body without causing harm. Eleven more times at fifteen-minute intervals Mastick swished the two solutions around in his mouth
and then spit them into the beaker.
After the accident, Mastick's breath was so hot that he could stand six feet away and blow the needles on the radiation monitors off scale. His urine
contained detectable plutonium for many years. In one of several interviews Mastick said that he was undoubtedly still excreting "a few atoms" of
plutonium but had suffered no ill effects.
When the mouth washings finally were finished, Hempelmann ordered the young man to lie down on a cot. Then he pumped out his stomach several times.
Carefully he transferred the stomach liquids into a tall beaker. The plutonium would have to be chemically separated from the organic matter in
Mastick's stomach and mouth so it could be reused in future experiments. No scientist at the lab had ever undertaken such a task.
Hempelmann gave the young chemist a couple of breakfast waffles for his empty stomach and some Sippy alkaline powders to be taken during the day. Then
he turned and handed him the four-liter beaker of murky liquid.
Go, he said, retrieve the plutonium.
|
https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/w/welsome-plutonium.html
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
|
|
|
careysub
International Hazard
Posts: 1339
Registered: 4-8-2014
Location: Coastal Sage Scrub Biome
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lowest quantum state
|
|
That anecdote is a good lesson for anyone engaging in chemistry about being cavalier with safety practices!
About that which we cannot speak, we must remain silent.
-Wittgenstein
Some things can never be spoken
Some things cannot be pronounced
That word does not exist in any language
It will never be uttered by a human mouth
- The Talking Heads
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
My geiger counters say very little.
Somehow i wish i could make them chirp louder, but they never do.
Probably a Good thing.
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6320
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | I recall watching a periodicvideos vid on Pu where someone famously spilled Britain's year-long supply of 10 milligrams (or was it micrograms) and by
cutting a hole in the desk and burning it to ashes managed to recover 90% of it.
|
I found the reference: https://youtu.be/89UNPdNtOoE?t=15m15s
It was 10 milligrams. But the whole video is worth re-watching if you have not seen it for a while.
My immediate thought when you wrote this was [tongue in cheek] "No problem. Just leave some of the neutrons behind." Where is PHDChemist when you
need him?
I would be hard pushed to retrieve half a milligram of something simple like iodine from 4 litres of murky liquid. These guys were clever.
(And if clever guys can have accidents where they accidentally ingest unwanted stuff -- well, that's food for thought. It does not pay for me to be
too cocky. Anything can happen and at any time. I need to remember that when planning experiments.)
|
|
|
diddi
National Hazard
Posts: 723
Registered: 23-9-2014
Location: Victoria, Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fluorescent
|
|
I might grab a small lump for the collection 
Beginning construction of periodic table display
|
|
|
Xanax
Hazard to Self
Posts: 54
Registered: 28-8-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: Curious
|
|
34 tonnes!!!
It was a big deal here in Sweden when we gave away about 3,3 kg weapon-graded Plutonium to USA. Police escort and so. But the police didn't know what
it was when the escorted the truck with the Plutonium in. New policecar for every municipality, they only had order to escort a truck!
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Speaking of "denaturing" weapons grade Pu 239 to make it unsuitable for weapons use?
Somehow, I had missed reports of the 1962 Nevada test where US military succeeded in getting a bomb to function adequately with a core containing
around 23% Pu240. And subsequent statements from US weapons program workers that claims of "reactor grade" Pu of 14-20% Pu240 content being impossible
to use for weapons were deliberately disingenuous.
That, and the oddness of the US needing to use a batch of British made higher burnup fuel as the Pu source for the test. Because the Hanford Pu
production reactors failed in attempts to make the requested Pu isotope mix for mechanical reasons (high burnup fuel elements swelled, burst, leaked,
generally contaminated things and would even get stuck in the channels).
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
