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Dangle89
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Restricted Chemicals AUS???
Hello All 
Long time reader of the site and figured I would finally sign up now I have a question that I cant seem to find an answer to!
Also sorry if this is in the wrong spot will read through the posting rules after this
I have been ordering Chems from all over the world for personal backyard use and a mate in the USA asked me what is Australia's restricted chemical
list (like the DEA list in the US)?
I've probably spent close to 5 hours over the past couple of weeks reading websites that tell me to check 7 or 8 different federal agency's and then
to check my state agency's  In my research the only page I could find that was half
useful had the Customs 1901 Act but it only really talks about mind altering substances and chemical weapons
Just to clarify I am not looking for mind altering chemicals that are flat out illegal or in the gray like that synthetic pot stuff from a couple of
years ago, I am more looking for a list of chems that would probably require a EUD if bought in Aus. The only chem in the act which was in the same
ball park as what I am looking for was Carbon Tetrachloride (CCl4).
Last time I tried talking to government agency's I was trying to find out about importing depleted U metal for my element collection, I got passed
from agency to agency till one lady told me "anything radioactive requires a $250 permit" Have ordered plenty of Th and U minerals before and after that conversation and never had a problem tho 
My theory has always just been if i'm not doing anything naughty with the things I buy I have nothing to worry about and could use the "bought it on
ebay and didn't know" excuse  but figured I should probably try to find out the
answer some day.
So my question is does anyone know if Australia has a list of restricted chemical imports (I would assume we do) and if so can anyone point me in the
direction of where to find it?
Thanks so much everyone
Dangle
P.S. I know I cant spell / write great so please dont smash me over my writing skills
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NedsHead
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I don't have an answer to your question, you're better off calling customs directly or asking the police in your state for the info. I came here to
say that many Australians have had their lives ruined because "bought it on eBay and didn't know". Unfortunately for us plebs ignorance of the law is
no excuse for breaking it. Be careful
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diddi
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customs are most unhelpful. I spent 6 months trying to obtain advice about licencing to import, all to no avail.
Ignorance is not a defence, btw. Ultimately it may depend entirely on the impression you give in terms of competence and co-operation and evidence of
legitimate usage of your chems and equipment.
[Edited on 28-7-2015 by diddi]
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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Dangle89
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Hello again :-)
Just to clarify I mainly stick to inorganic chem and would be happy to fill in EUD's here in AUS :-)
Contacts overseas are just so, so much cheaper, have better stock, I already have relationships built from buying elements and I find it hard to find
chem company that sell to individuals within Australia.
It is more a preemptive question as don't really want to get a knock on the door one day because I ordered something that was flat out illegal without
even realizing!
Would be happy for police to come have a look and show / explain to them what i'm doing Just don't want to spend a night in the station while they test everything to check what i'm saying is true!
I know the "Didn't know" answer would not be ideal but figure if I have no intention / signs of doing anything dodgy it may hold up in a worst case
scenario!
Thanks again everyone
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j_sum1
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This matter crops up regularly. I think one of the issues is that the laws in Aus are less than transparent. diddi's vain attempts to extract
information from customs is by no means unique. I had someone at my work do the same for a day and a half and got nothing more useful than that it is
illegal to import meth pipes.
EUDs are a strange piece of legislation. They target suppliers rather than buyers. In other words they make it difficult for someone to supply
wholesale to illicit drug manufacturers. They don't cover importation from overseas. I know of a couple of situations where someone has sought to
sign an EUD to cover themselves for an imported item or chemical and the situation is just not set up for that.
I think the way it works is this:
1. Possession or purchasing of just about anything is legal. (I know you want an exclusion list but I don't think one has been drawn up.)
2. Possession of anything with intent to do something illegal is illegal. (Intent is difficult to prove.)
3. Possession of anything that is demonstrably related to classified illegal drugs is illegal. I believe the definition may be as loose as "drug
paraphernalia". I think if it came to a court case they would be interested in evidence that the equipment/chemicals had been used to manufacture
drugs or were specifically designed for that purpose. Several lines of evidence would be necessary and not just the fact that you own a beaker.
4. Sale and supply of items within Australia is fraught with all manner of ill-thought and unclear paperwork in an attempt to curb supply but mostly
makes it awkward for genuine businesses. Most seem to respond by (a) not supplying individuals and (b) limiting the items that they supply.
Everything is still available from China or India on eBay though.
5. Customs track glassware and chemical imports. They inform police. This happens regularly.
6. Police perform regular checks based on information provided by customs. All accounts I have heard involving hobby chemists have turned out ok.
7. Drug cooks continue to make crystal meth in tin cans and suitcases and with untraceable glassware -- stolen, blown, hacked or jury-rigged or
through false EUD statements or unchecked eBay imports.
Keep your nose clean and don't do anything stupid. Make sure your lab looks inorganic rather than organic. Keep a lab book. Label everything and
make it look organised. Support local suppliers when possible. Buy from overseas when not. Expect a visit from police if you order glassware from
overseas or sensitive chemicals (with a fairly broad and vague definition of what that might be.) Be friendly and cooperative with the police when
they arrive. Ask them questions including to see relevant paperwork and what the law actually states. Being friendly and cooperative of course.
Remember that possession of glassware etc is not illegal. And if it turns vaguely sour, buy the best lawyer that you can.
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Dangle89
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Hello
Thanks everyone!
I have decided to contact Customs and get them to point me to legislation (so they cant just give me the "No" answer) and will let you all know what
the result is 
I know in my state legislation (would be different for each) everything is based on "intent to manufacture" so as j_sum1 said technically, as far as I
can see, everything (apart from straight up illegal substance) is legal in my state unless I plan on doing something illegal with it
I am not a lawyer but, at this point, looks like everything might work out OK! I still wouldn't push my luck by ordering 25L of AA or HI acid or
something stupid though!
I will let you all know what the result is from Customs
Thanks again
Dangle
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diddi
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25litres of HI is not a good look. not even I would do that. but I know an .au distributer that would sell 25L GAA no probs.
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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Oscilllator
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Quote: Originally posted by Dangle89  |
I have decided to contact Customs and get them to point me to legislation (so they cant just give me the "No" answer) and will let you all know what
the result is |
See the attached file for a list of restricted chemicals and contact details for the relevant government agencies. I myself contacted the NSW police
force regarding the purchase of glassware in particular (the thread's around there somewhere...) and I would recommend you do the same, since it is
not customs that makes the decision to restrict chemicals and/or knock down your door.
With regards to the legislation however, the "Drug Misuse and Trafficking Regulation 2011 Part 2 Clause 7 (Sales of Schedule 3 apparatus) " is
probably worth a look.
Edit: I should have read your post properly. I don't think a list of restricted imports will necessarily help that much, since it might be that a
chemical that is restricted/requires an EUD in Australia does not have any restrictions on importing. For example, I purchased 1L 24/40 round bottomed
flasks from China with no problems, even though to do so in Australia would require an EUD.
So although contacting customs is a good idea, I think you should also contact the relevant government agency so if anything comes up you have
evidence you tried to do the right thing.
Attachment: end user declaration.pdf (242kB)
This file has been downloaded 795 times
[Edited on 29-7-2015 by Oscilllator]
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diddi
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very good oscillator! I am getting what ever info from Vic Police atm...
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Dangle89
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Hello all
Talked to Customs and AFP today.
Customs told me they have no information on anything like that (that really surprised me!) and to talk to AFP to check. AFP told me "if it was illegal
to import, that would be a Customs law".
I live in ACT and law (Criminal Code 2002) says:
"612A Possessing offence—presumption if controlled precursor possessed to manufacture controlled drug
(1) This section applies if, in a prosecution for an offence against section 612 (5) (Possessing controlled precursor), it is proved that the
defendant possessed a controlled precursor with the intention of using any of it to manufacture a controlled drug.
(2) It is presumed, unless the contrary is proved, that the defendant had the intention or belief about the sale of the drug required for the
offence.
Note The defendant has a legal burden in relation to the matters mentioned in
s (2) (see s 59). "
So as far as I can tell from my discussions today, anything that is not black and white illegal is legal unless I plan on doing something illegal with
it
Am expecting a knock at the door though as the AFP guy sounded a little confused but invited him to come past any time 
Dangle
[Edited on 29-7-2015 by Dangle89]
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Dangle89
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Sorry here is the rest of the precursor law!
"612 Possessing controlled precursor
(1) A person commits an offence if the person possesses a large commercial quantity of a controlled precursor—
(a) with the intention of using any of it to manufacture a controlled drug; and
(b) with the intention of selling any of the manufactured drug or believing that someone else intends to sell any of the manufactured drug.
Maximum penalty: 2 500 penalty units, imprisonment for 25 years or both.
(2) Absolute liability applies to the circumstance that the quantity possessed was a large commercial quantity.
(3) A person commits an offence if the person possesses a commercial quantity of a controlled precursor—
(a) with the intention of using any of it to manufacture a controlled drug; and
(b) with the intention of selling any of the manufactured drug or believing that someone else intends to sell any of the manufactured drug.
Maximum penalty: 1 500 penalty units, imprisonment for 15 years
or both.
(4) Absolute liability applies to the circumstance that the quantity possessed was a commercial quantity.
(5) A person commits an offence if the person possesses a controlled precursor—
(a) with the intention of using any of it to manufacture a controlled drug; and Serious drug offences Chapter 6
Manufacturing controlled drugs and precursors Part 6.3
Section 612A R31
(b) with the intention of selling any of the manufactured drug or believing that someone else intends to sell any of the manufactured drug.
Maximum penalty: 700 penalty units, imprisonment for 7 years or both."
So again wouldn't buy "Commercial Quantity's" or sell anything to anyone, as those bits look a little open to interpretation and could get you in the
crap, but apart from that all looks sweet
Dangle
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diddi
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as soon as there is interpretation involved I see warning lights a-flashing
"commercial quantity" hmmmm lets interpret that one
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Dangle89
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Found the precursor amounts legislation (i.e. definition of a commercial quantity) after a lot of digging! The obviously don't want to make it easy
for people to find!
http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/sl/2005-2/current/pdf/2005...
Some of them are really supersizing!
For instance I walk around everyday with a commercial quantity of platinum on my finger! Yet owning 1kg of Pseudoephedrine would NOT be commercial
quantity  WTF!
Another interesting one is Th is on the list and anything under 1kg is not a commercial quality! Gotta say good luck finding a kilo of Th though! Plus
I think that one might fall under some other laws
Last thing I don't understand is the acids. For Phosphorous acid commercial quality is 1.1L but I wonder if that is 1.1L of 100% pure or if 1.1L of 1%
acid would count? Hydrobromic acid is on there too at 250ml and 100% HBr is a gas so that's where I got confused
Thank you so much for everything everyone
I have gotten all the answers I need and happy for this thread to be closed (or left open so other hobby chemists in ACT don't have to go through all
the crap I had to!)
Thanks again
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diddi
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those figures do not match those which I have been able to check with Victoria Police.
ephedrine 25 grams
Pt 0.5g
Phosphorous acid 25ml
lesson here is that the states have no means of communicating with each other (because the train line changes at the border) so if its on the list you
have no idea where the goalposts will be standing.
I think there are lot of issues that are entirely unresolved thus far in this thread.
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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Dangle89
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| Quote: Originally posted by diddi | those figures do not match those which I have been able to check with Victoria Police.
ephedrine 25 grams
Pt 0.5g
Phosphorous acid 25ml
lesson here is that the states have no means of communicating with each other (because the train line changes at the border) so if its on the list you
have no idea where the goalposts will be standing.
I think there are lot of issues that are entirely unresolved thus far in this thread. |
I agree with diddi
Probably should keep this open and turn it into a national thread rather than just relevant to ACT seeing as it is the smallest territory!
Everyone please all feel free to search for and add info for your states :-)
Also forgot to mention before, all of this info is a guide and you could still have AFP / local police knocking / smashing down your door even if you
keep within these limits. Just remember they are just doing their jobs so be nice if they do rock up and (hopefully) as soon as they realize you are
not doing anything wrong they will be as nice to you as you have been to them*
* also remember some people are just dicks and nothing you do will change that
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diddi
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and there is the perennial (well discussed) problem of neighbours with lack of understanding of what they see.
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Dangle89
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Hi again all
Here is the DFAT chem list for anyone into Radiochemistry or chemical weapons
manufacturers
I hope we don't have any people in that second category!
That link didn't seem to work Here is the google search (DFAT chemical imports):
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&...
It is the doc labeled "chemicals - Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade". Was the first page result at time this was posted.
Dangle
[Edited on 2-8-2015 by Dangle89]
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alive&kickin
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Dangle89, I've found that keeping a record of all the calls you've made (date, time, & who you spoke to) helps when the police come to the door,
that way you can prove that at least you tried to get an answer to your question.
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Oscilllator
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| Quote: Originally posted by alive&kickin | | Dangle89, I've found that keeping a record of all the calls you've made (date, time, & who you spoke to) helps when the police come to the door,
that way you can prove that at least you tried to get an answer to your question. |
Better yet, use email. Writing down the time/date of calls is not nearly as convincing as emails.
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Dangle89
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Keeping records of all phone calls and emails Emails are generally useless but
keep them anyway as proof of contact
In the habit of doing that for my day job
Job also involves interpreting much more "lawyer speak" legislation from the 70's than the way ACT law is written so quite use to reading legislation
My main interest is the acids (HBr, HI, H3PO4), elements (P, I, Na, Li, Ca) and inorganic salts (CrO3). Not the organic precursors (Psudo, Safrole).
Also as mentioned before, this is a guide to attempt to educate people. Just trying to get as much information in one place so they don't have to
spend as many hours searching for it as I have!
And to give them some information so they can ask educated questions don't get a useless "No" runaround answer.
If anyone is planning on importing something dangerous or that could be used for illicit purposes, I would still recommend they do their own research
as laws change all the time and this info could be out of date at any point
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Dangle89
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Also here is some info provided to me by another member (Thank you!) on some of the environmentally damaging chems. The NICNAS site has a Chemical
search section too but I have not had much luck gaining information from it!
http://www.nicnas.gov.au/about-nicnas/legislation-and-regula...
https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014C01128
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Camroc37
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You can thank Aunt Thally for that restriction
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Rynoaus
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Looking at the therapeutic goods list of illicit precursors is a good place to start as it shows any chemicals that require an import Licence or
permit then of corse the state legislation is very foggy. I live in qld I recently ordered enough AA to make a small sample of cellulose acetate
(120mls for a .5grm sample) for a project from america. Customs stopped it and then sent police to my door I showed them what of the experiment I had
done (working on extracting cellulose from wood etc they seemed happy with that but the police officer said to me that possession of AA over point one
of gram is an Offence even if I am using it lawfully as it's listed in the drugs misuse act. They took my notebook and phone and nothing else it seems
even the police up here have no idea.
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j_sum1
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AA is acetic acid??
That is crazy. It is sold to cake decorators. Glacial acetic acid apparently makes the fondant shiny.
With that in mind, you should be able to get food grade from somewhere like the Melbourne food depot. No time to look up a linky at present.
I would be asking questions -- including why they felt in necessary to take your phone.
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gdflp
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Much more likely AA = Acetic anhydride. It can be used to acetylate morphine into heroin, but personally I think that it is ridiculous to restrict
such a generic reagent with wide applications. It is technically restricted in the US as well, although less so as I was able to purchase some
without filling out any forms or whatnot.
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