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Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
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Hazmat False Alarm/Raid near my house
This happened yesterday, less than a block away from my house.
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/299356501.html
Imagine what would have happened had they found my lab, with actual hazardous chemicals!
I was out of the house when it started, and I had a panic attack when I came back and saw all the hazmat trucks outside my house.
I will upload some of my pictures of the chaos tomorrow.
The saddest part is, they didn't realize there was no danger for over ten hours.
[Edited on 11-4-2015 by Cheddite Cheese]
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Etaoin Shrdlu
National Hazard
Posts: 724
Registered: 25-12-2013
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Insufferable
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| Quote: | | Around 6:30 p.m., Elder announced that authorities believed they were not dealing with a hazardous substance, but did not rule out whether a chemical
compound was involved. |
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I wonder what really happened though.
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Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
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I tried asking the National Guardsmen (no, really!) outside my house, but they wouldn't tell me anything. They did allow me to go into my house,
though. Others weren't so lucky.
My guess?
Someone called 911 for a chemistry-unrelated reason, and paramedics noticed an open, unmarked container full of odd-smelling powder that turned out to
be old napthalene mothballs or something like that.
[Edited on 12-4-2015 by Cheddite Cheese]
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Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline
Mood: I just don't know...
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Apparently they did manage to save the neighborhood from a bag full of hazardous books.
Thank God for them.
I wonder what would have happened if there were a witch in the apartment?
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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What is frightening is that that incident could happen to any one of us.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Loptr
International Hazard
Posts: 1348
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Grateful
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Books and documents in evidence bags...
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Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
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Pictures
   
I came home and saw this. I thought they were coming for me, until I realized that they were concentrated at another building.
[Edited on 12-4-2015 by Cheddite Cheese]
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Varmint
Hazard to Others
Posts: 264
Registered: 30-5-2013
Location: Near Atlanta, GA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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When I was very young (8-9 maybe) I was at my grandmas house, and I asked her why the closet smelled so bad.
She thought about it for a second, and said "oh, that must be the moth balls". I'd never heard of them before.
So she opened the door, took down the satchel, and showed me what they looked like.
I said "wow, must be HUGE moths!".
She though about it for a couple of seconds, then bust out laughing so hard she had tears in her eyes, I'd never heard the noises she made before,
truly out of control. The whole rest of the afternoon she couldn't look at me without busting out again or at least giggling.
{Sorry for the hijack, but when you mentioned mothballs...}
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gdflp
Super Moderator
Posts: 1320
Registered: 14-2-2014
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Staring at code
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Wow, talk about a waste of tax dollars. It's a good thing that you weren't in the middle of an experiment when they showed up! That would have taken
some explaining.
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macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
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It sounds like someone injured themselves while doing something. No telling what they found but it sounds like a suspected drug incident given the
seizure of books and papers. Possible a meth addict having a heart attack. Of course it could also be absolutely overblown and the dude simply had
some unlabelled bottle with something that smelled weird on the kitchen table. Chinese fish sauce might be a good suspect.
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Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline
Mood: I just don't know...
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Plus 1 re: macckone
Yep! Meth addict, and fish sauce is most likely what it was. 
Happens all the time around here.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3253
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
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Overkill, as per the norm.
Not to be too paranoid, but since this sort of thing is in the news, and this is in a section of the forum frequented by search engines, someone
related to this case could quite possibly find this thread. You admit to having <i>actual</i> hazardous chemicals in your house. Not
only that but from the angle of your photos you could get a good guess as to what house you were in while they were taken.
Just something to take into consideration.
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macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
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Bleach is a hazardous chemical 
So is drain cleaner and many other household chemicals.
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Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
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Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid  | Overkill, as per the norm.
Not to be too paranoid, but since this sort of thing is in the news, and this is in a section of the forum frequented by search engines, someone
related to this case could quite possibly find this thread. You admit to having <i>actual</i> hazardous chemicals in your house. Not
only that but from the angle of your photos you could get a good guess as to what house you were in while they were taken.
Just something to take into consideration. |
I knew the risks when I posted it, which is why I waited a day, until the government agencies had left. Yes, someone could figure out my address just
from going on Google Street View.
However, I thought it was important enough to share.
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Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline
Mood: I just don't know...
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Nice to see you have a Big Pair Cheddite!
I double your sentiment. It's more important to discuss the issues that effect the masses, than it is to worry about trivial personal paranoia-s.
All this F'n drama that surrounds us is also killing us. What happened to the days where all we had to worry about was, Will there be enough rain this
year?
Damn I hate people...
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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We really don't know the facts of this incident ...yet. I hope Cheddite keeps us apprised from his unique viewpoint, ie, right next door. I'm sure
the Star/Tribune will be right on top of the story also.
Along with our knee-jerk paranoia over terrorism is the ever-present need for professionals to preserve their jobs. The feds, in their knee-jerk due
to 9-11 opened up a huge purse to every first responder organization in the country (our tax dollars). All this equipment and personnel have to be
exercised periodically to justify their existence. It's about jobs, stupid!
[Edited on 12-4-2015 by Magpie]
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Chemosynthesis
International Hazard
Posts: 1071
Registered: 26-9-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Really appreciate the pictures. I can have appreciation for what the NG probably thought they were doing, but seriously? Isn't this still considered a
Posse Comitatus violation unless explicitly activated by the governor? Also, I opened this thread and I could only think "bet I could figure out where
you live."
Then you had pictures and admitted you didn't care, and all I could think was that is way more open about your identity than I am. Granted, if you
know what you're doing, it wouldn't be too hard to find out things about me either.
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macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
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Posse Commitas only applies to the army (technically it may apply to the air force as well). It does not apply to the national guard, marines or
navy. It also doesn't apply to the police. Obviously the intent of the law was to prevent the military from operating inside the us but they only
specified the army.
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Zombie
Forum Hillbilly
Posts: 1700
Registered: 13-1-2015
Location: Florida PanHandle
Member Is Offline
Mood: I just don't know...
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batteries not included
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis |
Then you had pictures and admitted you didn't care, and all I could think was that is way more open about your identity than I am. Granted, if you
know what you're doing, it wouldn't be too hard to find out things about me either. |
I am under the impression that with one's IP address and a judge's order (or not) the identity of any one of us will be handed over to the requesting
authority. Correct me if I am wrong.
I keep checking for Star/Tribune updates on this story. Perhaps it's so embarrassing the police are not issuing any information?
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Loptr
International Hazard
Posts: 1348
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Grateful
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| Quote: Originally posted by Magpie | | Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis |
Then you had pictures and admitted you didn't care, and all I could think was that is way more open about your identity than I am. Granted, if you
know what you're doing, it wouldn't be too hard to find out things about me either. |
I am under the impression that with one's IP address and a judge's order (or not) the identity of any one of us will be handed over to the requesting
authority. Correct me if I am wrong.
I keep checking for Star/Tribune updates on this story. Perhaps it's so embarrassing the police are not issuing any information?
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First, they would get a judges order. Then they would likely contact the owner of the site through the site registration information or the IP of the
site itself. Eventually, they would make it to Polverone or one of the admins, and would request the IP address of the a specific user.
Remember what I said. If you use HTTPS, then all they know is that you are connecting to the site. They don't know who you are on the site, just that
you visit it.
The username/password and session information would be part of the encrypted message sent over the secure session. From what I recall, the most
revealing tell of an HTTPS connection is the URL and querystring that you see in your address bar. IIRC, that is unencrypted. So as long as cookies
aren't in the query string, they just know that someone connected to SM.
They can, however, try and narrow down who you are based on the IP address and where you claim to reside on your profile or in the forum posts.
[Edited on 15-4-2015 by Loptr]
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gregxy
Hazard to Others
Posts: 421
Registered: 26-5-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I'm not an IT guy, but knowing the IP address, couldn't they just correlate the time of the incoming traffic to SM with the time listed on the posts
when they show up?
The same issue as TOR for low traffic. Just correlate the input and output.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
National Hazard
Posts: 724
Registered: 25-12-2013
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Insufferable
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| Quote: Originally posted by macckone | | Posse Commitas only applies to the army (technically it may apply to the air force as well). It does not apply to the national guard, marines or
navy. It also doesn't apply to the police. Obviously the intent of the law was to prevent the military from operating inside the us but they only
specified the army. |
Nope. It applies to the Marines, the Navy, and also to the National Guard unless the NG is acting under the authority of the governor of the state
(because then it's not considered federal involvement, I suppose). I'd be surprised if this didn't happen under state authority, though.
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Chemosynthesis
International Hazard
Posts: 1071
Registered: 26-9-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Also if you VPN or proxy, things get more difficult. If you do not, however, it would not be too hard for a mod to ID the owner of the IP address
through illegal means.
| Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu | | Quote: Originally posted by macckone | | Posse Commitas only applies to the army (technically it may apply to the air force as well). It does not apply to the national guard, marines or navy.
It also doesn't apply to the police. Obviously the intent of the law was to prevent the military from operating inside the us but they only specified
the army. |
Nope. It applies to the Marines, the Navy, and also to the National Guard unless the NG is acting
under the authority of the governor of the state (because then it's not considered federal involvement, I suppose). I'd be surprised if this didn't
happen under state authority, though. |
This. Even organized state militias under control of the governor tend
to fall into PC Act in states where they exist, according to my questioning two of them in different states. NG has to be activated by the governor.
Now, I suppose there could be a governor's order or law stating permanent standby, or delegate the authority to someone designated by the governor in
times of emergency or something and it would maybe be valid under a state constitution, but it just sounds suspicious to me. The governor activated a
NG unit for this? I have to be missing something here. http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/call/docs/10-16/ch_12.asp
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Loptr
International Hazard
Posts: 1348
Registered: 20-5-2014
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Grateful
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| Quote: Originally posted by gregxy | I'm not an IT guy, but knowing the IP address, couldn't they just correlate the time of the incoming traffic to SM with the time listed on the posts
when they show up?
The same issue as TOR for low traffic. Just correlate the input and output. |
Not all accesses are posts, so there would be a lot of overlap. However, yes, they could use correlation to provide a confidence score of who is who,
but that is more involved than your average joe, and would be a collective effort. Given enough data, yes, they could guestimate who is what IP
address.
This wouldn't just require a subpoena for a particular IP address, etc., but would be site-wide for SM as a whole. It goes back to my Tor posts, if
they can watch the entire population, Tor or SM, then they can start making inferences as to who is who. HOWEVER, a big however, this takes a LOT of
effort and man hours. You would have to be a very important target in order for them to go to this much effort.
I have worked with the machine learning over big data arena before, and it is certainly possible that you can be identified using HTTPS, but the point
is to not make it EASIER FOR THEM TO DO SO.
A school of fish has a much higher chance of not getting eaten, but the outliers, they are shark bait. 
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