Frontier9
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 3-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Readily available Plasticizers & Binders
I have been searching in vain for the names of Plasticizers and Binders that are easily obtainable. Does anyone have knowledge of
Plasticizers & Binders that are readily available and that are chemically missable with each other?
|
|
|
YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
|
|
a simple one is to get a lump of Blu-Tak and a flask of petrol/gasoline, then add little bits to it slowly whilst stirring.
the gritty particles will sink to the bottom leaving you to decant the dissolved plastisizer.
evaporation of the pertol will leave a perfectly usefull agent for this purpose.
just be carefull as petrol fumes are very heavy and volatile, they`ll be at the highest concentration around your ankles so you may not even smell it,
do it Outside 
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
|
|
|
Frontier9
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 3-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Binders
Thanks for the info on how to prepare a Plasticizer YT2095; is there also an easy way of producing a Binder?
|
|
|
YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
|
|
use Dextrin then.
it`s also a reducing agent so you`ll need a TINY fraction more Oxidiser for a perfect burn, and by a fraction I mean like half a percent more, as you
don`t need much dextrin to set things like Rock!
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
While dextrin is of no use when it comes to materials that are hygroscopic, and materials that can't/shouldn't be heated to dry it.
Latex would be another plasticiser by the way. But again it is water based.
Polystyrene/trichloroethylene (dissolves it well) or acetone work too as a binder, after full evaporation the product is solid.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
|
|
NC laquer is also usefull and alot less Sooty than Styrenes that can affect certain color compositions.
I`ve also used Rice Flour to great effect for Stars, but also as mentioned above, it`s not ideal for Hydroscopic materials that cannot be heated.
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
|
|
|
Swany
Hazard to Others
Posts: 188
Registered: 11-4-2005
Location: My happy place...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sanguine
|
|
Are you binding pyrotechnics or plasticizing other energetic materials? If you are working on pyrotechnics you need to decide if you want a water
based binder, or a non-polar based binder. NC dissolved in acetone (NC laquer) can be used to bind and waterproof compositions, and is fairly clean
burning. Red gum in alcohol is a good binder. Dextrin and water, guar gum, etc etc.
For plasticizing, I would suggest getting some self-adhesive tape, cover with white petrol/gas; leave it for a day while not breaking up the tape too
much as you want to extract the polyisobutylene, not dissolve the tape. Decant this, and add acetone (about one volume, until the PIB precipitates
fully, take the glob and kneed it until the acetone is out of it. This can be dissolved in warm white gas, mixed the material to be plasticized, and I
use some heavy motor oil as a filler to make it less sticky. Once you get the ratios right, you can have a very malleable mix that has the feel of
slightly less sticky blutac/sticky tack. (Credit to Deceitful Frank for coming up with this, and whomever was working with him)
|
|
|
Frontier9
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 3-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Can any of the following function as a Plasticizer or Binder?:
A. Modeling Clay
B. Motor Oil
C. Silly Putty
D. Petroleum Jelly
E. Cooking Oil
F. Styrofoam
G. Beeswax
|
|
|
YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
|
|
AHA, here we go with the old Homework type questions again you asked in another Post!
edit: in particular: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=6153#p...
[Edited on 9-7-2006 by YT2095]
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
|
|
|
csm9420
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 27-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I think i read a way to make plasticize effect with vaseline and white oil and wax
Can i use vaseline and wax dissolved in white motor oil?
|
|
|
Paddywhacker
Hazard to Others
Posts: 478
Registered: 28-2-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Plasticizers & binders for what?
Those that you would making some bioplastic would be no good for making hamburger patties.
You can purchase or make phthalate esters such as DIOP. The Wiki gives a list of others.
|
|
|
csm9420
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 27-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Paddywhacker  | Plasticizers & binders for what?
Those that you would making some bioplastic would be no good for making hamburger patties.
You can purchase or make phthalate esters such as DIOP. The Wiki gives a list of others. |
How can i make DIOP?? can you give me any instruction or links it introduction? Thanks
|
|
|
Paddywhacker
Hazard to Others
Posts: 478
Registered: 28-2-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
A standard Fischer ester synth. Phthalic acid and iso-octyl alcohol in molar ratios 1:2 refluxed with a little acid catalyst ... toluene sulphonic
acid or H2SO4. Refluxing with toluene in a Dean-Stark apparatus would be ideal.
The problem is getting the alcohol, I guess.
Work-up would be washing with bicarbonate solution, then water. Then drying. The yield should be quantitative, so no need to distill.
|
|
|
Contrabasso
Hazard to Others
Posts: 277
Registered: 2-4-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Put the word Reofos in your favourite search engine. That is one well regarded plasticiser for some plastics. Also look out DOP and DAP Di octyl and
di allyl phthalate. Check all products for their intended use and temperature range before committing yourself.
Ring round a few places in your country and see if you can get a sample - may even get a gallon!
|
|
|
ksj_6808
Harmless
Posts: 20
Registered: 6-7-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Plasticizers and binders
p = plasticizer; b = binder; e = main explosive to plasticize
EX:
RDX(e) --> Nitroglycerin(p) / Acetone (b)
PETN(e) --> Propylene Glycol(p) / Water(b)
RDX(e) --> Glycerin(p) / Water(b)
From what i understand and im pretty sure it's accurate, there's no need to go through so much just to obtain a good plasticizer, Probably the best
plasticizer is NG or EGDN because they are very powerfull themselves and will not bog down your RDX or whatever your using, therefore will be more
powerfull than military c4. However NG would probably work better because EGDN is runnier. Your crystals need to be as fine as you can get them
(recrystallize very slowly) and if you know the predetermined amount of plasticizer you need then it is best to use the binder, however a binder is
not always nessesary as you can just kneed the plasticizer into the composition, however the binder will dissolve the plasticizer and make the
plasticizer more uniform throughout the plastique. I know vegatable glycerin works very well as a plasticizer on it's own, although i havent tried it
with an HE yet, i've plasticized flour and it works great and the pictures are of the plasticized flour. Now don't get affended if im wrong on
something because im no expert, if in fact im wrong just correct me..Cheers!!
[Edited on 6-8-2012 by ksj_6808]
   
|
|
|
triplepoint
Hazard to Others
Posts: 127
Registered: 11-4-2012
Location: U.S.
Member Is Offline
Mood: in equilibrium
|
|
Ksj6808 said "Your crystals need to be as fine as you can get them (recrystallize very slowly)"
But wouldn't slow crystalization result in large crystals?
The rest of the post is so far over my head I can't comment, but its certainly interesting to read.
|
|
|
ksj_6808
Harmless
Posts: 20
Registered: 6-7-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
From what i understand recrystallizing slowly does yield finer crystals. For instance, dissolve your rdx crystals into acetone, now instead of
crashing the mixture in twice the volume of water, instead let the mixture set a couple of days until the acetone evaporates and leaves nothing but
dry rdx crystals and you should have finer crystals, i would say put the crystals in a ball mill but that would certainly have devastating results!!
Now lets say your wanting to plasticize now, get the crystals and put them in a beaker, begin to add Ng or Glycerin or whatever you choose, ng is the
best though because of it's moderately high density, now just begin to pour the ng in the crystals while stirring with a plastic spoon, continue to
add the ng until you get the plasticity you desire. Word of advice, keep it a little on the sticky side as it will get harder over the days. Lamens
terms: just add the ng to the crystals until it's like playdough!! Good luck!!
|
|
|
ScienceHideout
Hazard to Others
Posts: 391
Registered: 12-3-2011
Location: In the Source
Member Is Offline
Mood: High Spin
|
|
Can't albumin be considered a binder? You can get it from egg whites!
hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!
|
|
|
ksj_6808
Harmless
Posts: 20
Registered: 6-7-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ya you read wikipedia im guessin, i read the same thing. Here...Whatever dissolves your plasticizer will serve as a binder, like acetone dissolves
nitroglycerin...And i don't hardly think you would want to use egg whites, that would be a poor choice, you would be better off just using vaseline or
mineral oil, those were the originals back in vietnam from what i remember.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
