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Yttrium2
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Why doesn't granite and water explode
I feel I have to answer even the most crazy questions to alleviate fear, so why doesn't granite and water explode?
Is The first thing to know systematically the chemicals involved?
And then what?
(I may be having a brain frat, some one asked me the other day when I was doing an experiment if it would explode, when I was reducing waters, now I
feel obsessed about being able to explain why "ordinary things" don't explode!
(It's interesting to note someone in a similar threat used similar wording about things "exploding") is this some new meme catch phrase or something
to link people together?
Why does lithium metal react with H20 again? Hmm I should remember back to general chemistry, I am having difficulty.... Something to do with its
ionization energy? Why does it displace hydrogen?
[Edited on 21-3-2015 by Yttrium2]
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ISCGora
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Well lithium metal reacts with water because it would really like to have those 8 electrons and that is also the reason why you don't find first and
second group metals in elemental state and in case of granite.It is a stable compound when you introduce water because it is basically already happy
compound(mineral).That doesn't mean it wont react it only means it wont react with some stuff.
Granite is also a mix of many oxide like:
SiO2
Al2O3
K2O
Na2O
CaO
FeO
Fe2O3
And some others but in much less %.
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Yttrium2
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Oh yeah lol
Can't you find things that are trying to get 8 electrons in nature however? Copper?
I forget that things need a octet but not everything, and Ive forgotten why, if anyone can answer that's, it'd be greatly appreciated
[Edited on 21-3-2015 by Yttrium2]
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ISCGora
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Well technically take hydrogen for a eg it can only have 2 valent electrons so if you mean on that ...
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phlogiston
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The answers to these questions can be found in any basic chemistry textbook.
8 electrons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octet_rule
The reaction of lithium with water is an example of a redox reaction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redox
I really don't understand your granite and water question. Why would you expect it might explode?
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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diddi
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lookup redox potential.
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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Amos
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It seems that there is a general trend of questions being asked that might be just as easily answered by sitting down and opening a chemistry book. I
would highly recommend doing so and learning the basics of why reactions happen and how there are trends among certain groups of elements or
compounds. Doing so would eliminate the need for you to ask questions like this as well as give you a much larger picture than the minute amounts of
information you can glean from the very specific answers you receive.
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phlogiston
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A good textbook is also much better at feeding you the information in the right order.
You need to understand certain things first before making the next step. Asking questions in more or less random order will sooner or later get you to
the basics too, but it will take a lot longer and you are risking that forum members get tired of answering your questions if they feel you made no
serious effort yourself first.
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"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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morganbw
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Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston  | A good textbook is also much better at feeding you the information in the right order.
You need to understand certain things first before making the next step. Asking questions in more or less random order will sooner or later get you to
the basics too, but it will take a lot longer and you are risking that forum members get tired of answering your questions if they feel you made no
serious effort yourself first. |
I agree.
Older high school chem. books were simple and very filled with info. I am not sure how the current books are?
There are some really good reads in the library on this site as well but I fear that most of them are still a little ahead of your present
understanding.
[Edited on 22-3-2015 by morganbw]
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neptunium
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for lithium in particular (but the other alcali metal as well) it is a lot easier to get rid of its outter most electron than capturing 5 more ! since
that lonely electron is much closer (and therefore harder to remove) to the nucleus than cesium for example, Li wont be as agressive and violent when
expose to a substance like water than K or Rb.
Also Oxygen is a small atom all its electron are closer to the nucleus , its the opposite scenario! it is easier for it to gain 2 electron and
complete its orbital than lose 6! so the effect of that nucleus is very much felt by the Li near by even though in water oxygen has its 2 electron
shared with 2 H atoms.
H being a tiny atom it give up its electron without too much effort.
put it all together and oxygen cant wait to get the electron Lithium is too happy to get rid of , and H just doesnt care so it leaves the reaction .
on a side note , if you pulverized granite (finely divided powder) and blow compressed Fluorine at it .... it might explode
[Edited on 22-3-2015 by neptunium]
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Molecular Manipulations
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| Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2 |
Why does lithium metal react with H20 again? Hmm I should remember back to general chemistry, I am having difficulty.... Something to do with its
ionization energy? Why does it displace hydrogen? |
First thing you learn in high school chemistry: why do chemicals react?
Basically there's a strong stability when an atom has either 2 electrons (for hydrogen, helium and lithium) or 8 (for almost everything else) it it's
outer shell. This is call octet happy. Lithium has three electrons total. Two of them are in helium's electron configuration, but the third is in the
valence shell by itself. Since it would be easier lose a single electron to achieve helium's stability than gain 7 to make an octet, it does the
former. Wanting to lose this electron so bad makes lithium a powerful reducing agent, and a proton isn't too hard to reduce, thus water can be reduced
to elemental hydrogen and oxide/hydroxide easily.
Granite is already stable. I honestly don't really know much about it's chemical nature, but surely it's a complex mixture of transition metal
silicates or something similar. Whatever it is, it's already oxidized. Metal oxides combined with silicon oxides are very stable, and common.
Here's an easy way to think of it, the atmosphere is very oxidizing, there's clearly an excess of oxygen on earth. So reducing agents are already
oxidized and stable.
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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ISCGora
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for lithium in particular (but the other alcali metal as well) it is a lot easier to get rid of its outter most electron than capturing 5 more ! since
that lonely electron is much closer (and therefore harder to remove) to the nucleus than cesium for example, Li wont be as agressive and violent when
expose to a substance like water than K or Rb.
Also Oxygen is a small atom all its electron are closer to the nucleus , its the opposite scenario! it is easier for it to gain 2 electron and
complete its orbital than lose 6! so the effect of that nucleus is very much felt by the Li near by even though in water oxygen has its 2 electron
shared with 2 H atoms.
H being a tiny atom it give up its electron without too much effort.
put it all together and oxygen cant wait to get the electron Lithium is too happy to get rid of , and H just doesnt care so it leaves the reaction .
on a side note , if you pulverized granite (finely divided powder) and blow compressed Fluorine at it .... it might explode
I know but thanks for info anyways!
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Molecular Manipulations
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ISCGora, usually when someone says something contradicting to what you said, "I know." Isn't the right response. You said lithium
reacts with water to achieve an octet, which is impossible! It would need to gain 7 electrons to get that (not 5 as neptunium said,
octets count for the valence electrons only, not the first two.)
Lithium gives it's valence electron to hydrogen, it doesn't grab 7!
Also there's a quote function here, or at least use "quotes" when quoting someone.
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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ISCGora
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As you can read below where I mentioned hydrogen has needs only 2 electrons to be as helium so that explains I quite much understand it and in case of
lithium yes I did a mistake it has 1 electron that wants to get rid of and then has 2 as helium.
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Yttrium2
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Thanks, it gets annoying all the condescending behavior, people who've likely never taken a chemistry class are telling me to pick up a book!
Chemistry is my major!
So annoying, a lot of my questions seem basic (such as what a theory is) but are not as basic as they seem. (Still basic just lots of people don't
understand) I'm definitely learning who is credible here, and who is certainly not
[Edited on 22-3-2015 by Yttrium2]
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Yttrium2
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I'm still confused as to why the lithium can replace a hydrogen. Doesn't hydrogen stick better then lithium? (What is the formal term)
Wouldn't hydrogen have a stronger hold on hydroxide then a lithium would?
When thinking of halogens if there is KI or KBr and Cl is added, Cl replaces the lower electronegative anions, forming KCl and KBr
Analogous to electronegativity, wouldn't hydrogen stick better to a hydroxide group then would a lithium?
Why again do metals have an easier time giving up elections then they do accepting them?
[Edited on 22-3-2015 by Yttrium2]
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Molecular Manipulations
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Sorry I forgot to mention that... hydrogen can get a "happy" as well be losing it's only electron to become just a proton. It's not as stable as
helium's configuration.
Lithium losing an electron and hydrogen gaining one is more favorable than nothing happening.
Exactly why these electron configurations are so stable is a little out of my grasp, although I could elaborate. There's so many books available that
explain it much better than I can.
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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ISCGora
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For e.g. take Li atomic number 3:first shell 2e-
second shell 1e-
It sounds more logical to just give of that one electron then finding additional 7.
On other hand Halogens e.g. Cl has atomic number 17:first shell 2e-
second shell 8e-
third shell 7e-
Again sounds more logical to get one e- then removing 7 of them.
[Edited on 22-3-2015 by ISCGora]
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neptunium
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| Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations | ISCGora, It would need to gain 7 electrons to get that (not 5 as neptunium said, octets count for the valence
electrons only, not the first two.)
Lithium gives it's valence electron to hydrogen, it doesn't grab 7!
. |
i was thinking 8 total for the outter shell sorry. 7 is the correct number of electron for Li to get to 8,( the valence electrons only, not the first
two.)therefore a complet octet is 7+3=10 like Neon
the nucleus is the source of the electron behaviour thats why Hydrogen with 1 positive charge just does not have the kick to compet with Li with 3
protons. so Lithium wins and take the electrons everytime.
[Edited on 22-3-2015 by neptunium]
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ISCGora
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Cant Li just lose 1 e- to get 2 valence e- instead of gaining 7.So it would be it lost one e- and has 2 left which is same as helium.
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neptunium
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if you read the first post thats exactly what i said
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Amos
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Nearly everyone on this site, I would bet, has taken a chemistry class, and I would bet 100% of those responding to you have taken one if not several.
And sorry, but shouldn't a chemistry major use better chemical language than "doesn't hydrogen stick better"?
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Molecular Manipulations
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| Quote: Originally posted by Molecular Manipulations |
Lithium has three electrons total. Two of them are in helium's electron configuration, but the third is in the valence shell by itself. Since it would
be easier lose a single electron to achieve helium's stability than gain 7 to make an octet, it does the former. |
| Quote: Originally posted by ISCGora | | Cant Li just lose 1 e- to get 2 valence e- instead of gaining 7.So it would be it lost one e- and has 2 left which is same as helium.
|
He's got it!
[Edited on 22-3-2015 by Molecular Manipulations]
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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ISCGora
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I really do not appreciate when people make fun of my knowledge so I would love if we would finish this conversation now.
Thank you!(Molecular Manipulations )
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phlogiston
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| Quote: | Thanks, it gets annoying all the condescending behavior, people who've likely never taken a chemistry class are telling me to pick up a book!
Chemistry is my major!
So annoying, a lot of my questions seem basic (such as what a theory is) but are not as basic as they seem. (Still basic just lots of people don't
understand) I'm definitely learning who is credible here, and who is certainly not |
It was not meant to be condensing, just honestly being helpful.
I could have spend my time a lot better if it was not a serious attempt to help you.
All of the questions and the issues in the discussion above are clearly explained in the first few chapters of any good general chemistry textbook,
and is presented in an optimal format for you to study it.
If you feel the advice given to you by several patient and knowledgeable people now is bad, and are confident your best options is keep asking around,
so be it.
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"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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