Blackrabbit
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Addition of Hydrogen Gas to Diesel Combustion.
Hi, Could anyone tell me the outcome of adding Hydrogen Gas to the combustion process in a diesel engine using High Sulphur Content fuel. As in the
normal combustion process with these fuels, Sulphurous and or Sulphuric Acid is formed, would the addition of H2 actually increase the amounts of
these acids formed, causing accelerated wear on the cylinder liners etc.
Thank - you, Blackrabbit.
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j_sum1
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How do you propose to add H2? It is difficult stuff to contain. Are you going to attempt to add it to the fuel? Add it to the air mix? Have a
separate feed into the cylinder? I think these issues need to be clarified before you can get a definitive response.
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clearly_not_atara
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement
Even if you're the most brilliant engineer in history and find a way to inject H2 into your engine, it'll be broken before the end of the day. Sorry.
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Bert
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Thread Moved
25-2-2015 at 21:13 |
Bert
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Inject propane if you feel the need to boost output from a diesel.
http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/faq.html
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
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2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
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Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Loptr
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This sounds similar to the HHO cells that people sell to create a hydrogen-oxygen mixture from water (it's a scam by the way) that is led into the
intake of the engine.
In the end, any performance you gain will come from messing with the emissions sensors, and will only cause your engine to run rich, which is not good
for the engine.
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AJKOER
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First, some extracts from Wikipedia on Diesel (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_fuel ):
"Diesel engines have found broad use as a result of higher thermodynamic and thus fuel efficiencies. This is particularly noted where diesel engines
are run at part-load; as their air supply is not throttled as in a petrol engine, their efficiency still remains high."...
"Fatty-acid methyl ester (FAME), more widely known as biodiesel,"....
"Fuel equipment manufacturers (FIE) have raised several concerns regarding FAME fuels: free methanol, dissolved and free water, free glycerin, mono
and diglycerides, free fatty acids, total solid impurity levels, alkaline metal compounds in solution and oxidation and thermal stability. They have
also identified FAME as being the cause of the following problems: corrosion of fuel injection components, low-pressure fuel system blockage,
increased dilution and polymerization of engine sump oil, pump seizures due to high fuel viscosity at low temperature, increased injection pressure,
elastomeric seal failures and fuel injector spray blockage.[16]"
Now, my speculation is adding H2 to a mix with the same O2 content adds more water vapor (by consuming some of the oxygen) and reduces the formation
of SOx gases and associated acids, which would otherwise neutralize the likes of NaOH that when hot, readily attacks fuel injection components and
such.
So, I would guess possibly some performance gain from the hydrogen with an engine running hotter, and also more equipment failure issues, especially
in the presence of biodesel.
[Edited on 27-2-2015 by AJKOER]
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Zombie
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Stop over complicating things...
Old school water injection systems still make plenty of power due to increased combustion pressure, and they are completely safe.
There are plenty of kits on the net, and most will have the option of water or Methanol or both.
I've run these set ups in gas, and diesel engines, and while never done any Dyno testing I do have hundreds of 1/4 mile track hours.
Increased cylinder pressure, and reduced combustion temp. = power. Period!
Quote Wiki:
"In internal combustion engines, water injection, also known as anti-detonant injection (ADI), is spraying water into the incoming air or fuel-air
mixture, or directly into the cylinder, in order to cool certain parts of the induction system where "hot points" could produce premature ignition .
It was used historically to increase the power output of military aviation engines for short durations such as dogfights or takeoff, however it has
also been used in motor sport and notably in drag racing. In Otto cycle engines the cooling effects of water injection also allow for greater
compression ratios by reducing the problem of engine knocking (detonation).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_%28engine%29
http://www.dieselarmy.com/engine-tech/how-it-works/how-it-wo...
http://www.coolingmist.com/pagedisplay.aspx?feature_key=dies...
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by Loptr  | This sounds similar to the HHO cells that people sell to create a hydrogen-oxygen mixture from water (it's a scam by the way) that is led into the
intake of the engine.
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It's only similar if one claims the hydrogen/oxygen mixture is generated inline ('jam jar' style electrolysis scams) and saves fuel. It does the
opposite although with a 'good' [cough!] HHO kit you'll lose little.
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deltaH
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Hydrogen's energy density is pretty pathetic (how far a fixed size tank will get you), as fuels go. It's not easy to store in significant amounts and
insignificant amounts are unlikely to have much effect on your engine.
If your diesel engine has a catalytic converter to reduce NOx emissions (which most do), then anhydrous liquid ammonia from a cylinder might be a good
option.
The calorific content of ammonia is not that great, but it does burn to just water and N2 (post catalytic converter of course). 
[Edited on 27-2-2015 by deltaH]
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