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radiance88
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DIY Moonshine Still
Hey fellas - need to run something by you guys.
I'm currently in the process of trying to construct my first still. After watching some "Moonshiners" and also coming to understand that ethanol
itself is a very useful solvent, I decided to bring out the inner redneck in me. . both for purposes of science and inebriation.
So I bought some copper tubing, formed it into a coil, and put it into this bucket. This is going to be my condenser/"worm box". The plan is to bore
a hole in the side of the bucket, push the coil through and use polyester body filler to seal up the hole.
Where my plans are foiled from fruiting is the fact that I'm not entirely sure how to properly connect my copper condensing coil to this pressure
cooker. I don't know how to weld, braze, or any of that other stuff.. I haven't a DIY bone in my body (yet).
Also, I'm guessing that to do this properly I'm going to need some kind of thermometer attached as well to control the heating temperature properly. I
don't have another hole , so I'm guessing I'll have to find a way to make one?
To those of you more experienced in still-building, how would you recommend I proceed?
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Zombie
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It's real easy.
First things first... IF you intend to take a taste test... Forget it. The rubber gasket in the cooker will leach into EtOH, and Aluminium is oxidized
by hot EtOH vapor. it will melt your nose hairs.
That said...
Turn the lid upside down, and drill out the pressure spigot.
Get a NPT to compression fitting at any hardware store, and a NPT thread tap to match.
Assemble that, and you are done. Easier than getting the pastor to let go of the collection plate.
Forget the thermometer too. No need for one. The EtOH will start dripping slow. When it does turn down the heat to maintain that drip rate.
The very first drops (perhaps one ounce) is Acetone. Smell it, and you will see.
After about 2 ounces of dripping, you can turn up the heat to induce a toothpick sized stream but nothing faster. Water vapor will carry over thew
more violent the boil rate.
After about a pint to a pint, and a 1/2 you will see the collection rate slow. That is about all the usable EtOH you can get. The ABV will fall so
fast from here it is not worth collecting. Youe will also be collecting Fuesil oils, and purification will get more difficult.
What you do collect as product will be around 30-40%ABV so a second purification distillation will be needed. You can most likely run that thru a lab
set up, and actually make some Azeo. EtOH.
IF I were gonna take a taste sample... It would be from that second distillation. I would also water it down to at least 50%ABV, unless you wanna
breath fire for a minute.
Edit: The second link describes EXACTLY what you are doing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFpZfr0YQ28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOL60CsF9U
[Edited on 2-22-2015 by Zombie]
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blogfast25
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What's the internal diameter of your worm tube?
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Zombie
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Use Silicone sealer... The Poly wont stick to the bucket.
Also 1/4" tubing... 1/8" will have to high a vapor speed.
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  | After about 2 ounces of dripping, you can turn up the heat to induce a toothpick sized stream but nothing faster. Water vapor will carry over thew
more violent the boil rate.
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Toothpick sized stream... I just love your measuring units. So much more rational than SI units! 
[Edited on 22-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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m1tanker78
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Those pressure cookers are almost always made of stainless steel. SS is a b&^%h to drill, cut and weld especially considering...
| Quote: | | I haven't a DIY bone in my body (yet). |
Depending on the size of the hole in the lid, you may be able to tap it and thread on a standard brass fitting which can then be soldered (better
brazed) to the copper tube. This configuration approximates a retort so you'd have a hard time fractionating the goods from the bads.
On the other hand, if you're able to thread a fitting directly to the lid, you might as well add a column and use a tee fitting at the top for the
takeoff and thermowell.
You might get away with using 100% silicone gasket around the hole in the lid and some sort of compression fittings. You have to be careful since the
pot contents tend to froth up and make their way through the condenser and into your distilled goods.
Find a buddy with a tig welder and drop by his house or shop with some beer?? How can you say no to that?
Chemical CURIOSITY KILLED THE CATalyst.
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Zombie
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Toothpick sized stream... I just love your measuring units. So much more rational than SI units!
[Edited on 22-2-2015 by blogfast25]
[Edited on 2-22-2015 by Zombie]
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blogfast25
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That's seriously debatable, BTW.
The BP of an EtOH/water mixture doesn't depend on boiling rate at all. The EtOH/water liquid/vapour phase system isn't affected by it either.
At 'violent' boiling rates you can have some mechanical entrainment of liquid droplets. Is that what you're referring to?
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
That's seriously debatable, BTW.
The BP of an EtOH/water mixture doesn't depend on boiling rate at all. The EtOH/water liquid/vapour phase system isn't affected by it either.
At 'violent' boiling rates you can have some mechanical entrainment of liquid droplets. Is that what you're referring to? |
Yes. Partial atomization.
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blogfast25
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What's a young version of Usama bin Laden gotta do with anything here?
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Zombie
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You crack me up.
Actually you remind me of my Grandfather... He would debate anything until the sun fell out of the sky, and then yell at you when you said you had to
leave.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Zombie | He would debate anything until the sun fell out of the sky, and then yell at you when you said you had to leave.
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I never yell at someone for leaving but if they give me a good argument I'm sad to see them leave.
The sun can't fall out of the sky so [ensues debate] (Just kidding!)
[Edited on 23-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | | Quote: Originally posted by Zombie | He would debate anything until the sun fell out of the sky, and then yell at you when you said you had to leave.
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I never yell at someone for leaving but if they give me a good argument I'm sad to see them leave.
The sun can't fall out of the sky so [ensues debate] (Just kidding!)
[Edited on 23-2-2015 by blogfast25] |
Love ya' Gramps! Goodnight.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
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Sulaiman
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Radiance88;
I made a similar water still and I used silicone tubing to connect the pot to the tube
use platinum cured silicone tubing, slightly more expensive
but still (!) cheap and avoids nasty chemicals in your drink/reagent.
Silicone tubing is reasonably resistant to ethanol.
You are constructing a 'pot still' so at least double distillation for consumption
and you will not be able to get 'pure' (95.6%) alcohol.
ferment grains not fruits to avoid chemical complications.
So, don't put too much effort into your current design,
just try distilling water first.
I'm sure that you will change to a reflux design.
For vodka/pure/reagent use you will need reflux (typ. 5:1 to 10:1) distillation.
look here http://homedistiller.org/intro/legal
loads of info.
I don't drink alcohol, I was just looking at still design for general purposes
so I can't give practical advice.
[Edited on 23-2-2015 by Sulaiman]
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cyanureeves
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does this all mean that alcohol will always distill out before the water in the mash?even at 212 deg?say you bring it to a rapid boil and it reaches
212 deg. quick,will all the alcohol evaporate first before water?can the mash temp be maintained only at ethanol boiling temp so no water comes
over?when i turned up the heat it seemed i would get very diluted alcohol and when i turned down the heat,nothing would come over.the mash still
smelled like alcohol when i stopped after hours of distilling so i only got two 32 oz. out of 5 gal. of mash.
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m1tanker78
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Ethanol and water form an azeotrope so there's no way to avoid the ~5% water content coming over with the ethanol with distillation alone.
Chemical CURIOSITY KILLED THE CATalyst.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves | | does this all mean that alcohol will always distill out before the water in the mash?even at 212 deg?say you bring it to a rapid boil and it reaches
212 deg. quick,will all the alcohol evaporate first before water? |
Nope. It doesn't mean that AT ALL.
Water is quite volatile too, so quite a bit water evaporates too.
If you take the simplest of distillations where you simply boil a water/EtOH mixture and then condense the vapours, you will have enriched the
condensate in EtOH considerably but there still plenty of water in it.
If you started from roughly 8 w%, with ONE single evaporation plus condensation, you'll end up with about 39 w% EtOH, a very considerable gain but
certainly not water-free.
To enrich more you need to repeat the process or use some kind of a fractionating column.
| Quote: Originally posted by m1tanker78 | | Ethanol and water form an azeotrope so there's no way to avoid the ~5% water content coming over with the ethanol with distillation alone.
|
True but it's quite a different issue and doesn't really answer his question.
Scroll to about half way for a non-scaled EtOH/water phase diagram:
http://www.chemguide.co.uk/physical/phaseeqia/nonideal.html
[Edited on 23-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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radiance88
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What I have here 5/16'' copper tubing.. don't know the exact inner measurement as I just eyeballed it and had it cut ('doh). The pressure cooker is
stainless steel.
Okay, so from my understanding this "compression fitting" has a tapered inside, a double-tapered ring that goes over the tubing, and uses a nut that
when tightened that squeezes the ring to the tapered inside. The other side is supposed to have a threaded end, right?
So then I'm going to have to find another thing to fit that threaded end, force that through the pressure cooker, and then somehow solder/weld/braze
it there?
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves | | does this all mean that alcohol will always distill out before the water in the mash?even at 212 deg?say you bring it to a rapid boil and it reaches
212 deg. quick,will all the alcohol evaporate first before water?can the mash temp be maintained only at ethanol boiling temp so no water comes
over?when i turned up the heat it seemed i would get very diluted alcohol and when i turned down the heat,nothing would come over.the mash still
smelled like alcohol when i stopped after hours of distilling so i only got two 32 oz. out of 5 gal. of mash. |
First you will NEVER reach 212^f unless there is NO EtOH in the mash. The water / EtOH will boil at whatever temp is on the scale going by Mole
Fractions,
You can only control the rate of the boil, and not the Temp.
You want the minimum boil rate that produces EtOH vapor.
Edit: If you are using a hot plate or electric stove, they cycle off, and on to maintain a set temp. They respond to a 5 - 10 * f change so they
really don't work well for distilling, and you will never get a good result.
The best way to start is buy some cheap wine. Use the ABV of the wine to figure out a 40% ABV mix in your pot. That is the highest ratio you want to
distill.
From that 40% in a pot still you will recover down to 20% ABV product. If you start with a gallon at 40% you should recover about 30 ounces due to
leaving 20% behind.
Your product will be around 40% or 80 proof Etoh.
Ps... Sorry to say, do NOT use any sort of silicone near hot EtOH vapor. It will leach.
The only safe or inert "plastic is PTFE.
[Edited on 2-23-2015 by Zombie]
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Sulaiman
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Are you sure that platinum-cured silicone tubing will leach?
just asking for my own knowledge as when I wanted tubing I looked up the chemical compatibility and it was reported as good.
I don't want leached products in my products.
any reference(s)?
[Edited on 23-2-2015 by Sulaiman]
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by radiance88 | What I have here 5/16'' copper tubing.. don't know the exact inner measurement as I just eyeballed it and had it cut ('doh). The pressure cooker is
stainless steel.
Okay, so from my understanding this "compression fitting" has a tapered inside, a double-tapered ring that goes over the tubing, and uses a nut that
when tightened that squeezes the ring to the tapered inside. The other side is supposed to have a threaded end, right?
So then I'm going to have to find another thing to fit that threaded end, force that through the pressure cooker, and then somehow solder/weld/braze
it there?
|
The way you explained the fitting is correct.
Get a 5/16" compression to 5/16" NPT adaptor, and 5/16" NPT Tap, and the matching COBALT drill bit.
Nothing else or nothing different no matter what Anyone says,
Drill the spigot out of the lid from the bottom side, and tap the thread from the top.
If you cut the thread cleanly you will not need sealer. Pipe threads self seal.
For peace of mind? Use Teflon Plumbers tape.
Taping threads is a precise chore so if you are uncomfortable... Ask a buddy or the guy at the local garage. Just laugh, and tell him you are gonna
make Super Meth. That usually shuts them up!
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
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radiance88
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Judging from this Amazon link.. an "NPT tap" is some sort of drill bit? You use this to create threading, am I right?
So I should drill a hole in the lid (it's already got one there, probably just make it larger?), and then use this "tap" to create threading in the
lid, right? Then fit the other end of the adapter into this thread?
I just sat here for about an hour trying to figure how all of this fits together.. Sorry yes I am a pipe retard. lol
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aga
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Yep.
In Engineering, a 'tap' creates a screw thread inside a hole.
Technically you should use a 'second' after the 'tap' but that isn't really needed here.
Nobody is born a plumbing expert !
For quite a while after birth we all tend to leak (a year or so)
Edit:
A Tap is a hand tool : if you try to run it fast inn a drill, something will break.
The technique is to apply it vertically into the hole, do a 1/4 turn, back it off a little, repeat.
Use some oil to lubricate the tool.
The Hole you drill should be about 1mm smaller than the size of the thread you want - there has to be enough metal left to cut a thread into ...
Another edit :
Use Meths to lubricate if it's aluminium - works better than oil for Al/Fe.
Oil works better for most other things.
[Edited on 23-2-2015 by aga]
[Edited on 23-2-2015 by aga]
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aga
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this shows it quite well :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVnN4jiB7Gk
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | Are you sure that platinum-cured silicone tubing will leach?
just asking for my own knowledge as when I wanted tubing I looked up the chemical compatibility and it was reported as good.
I don't want leached products in my products.
any reference(s)?
[Edited on 23-2-2015 by Sulaiman] |
You are correct that Silicone is rated as good. It is not excellent or inert.
This topic has been discussed to death on distillation forums for a decade.
PTEF is the only accepted "inert" plastic.
http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resistance
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&...
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