Savior
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Nuclear fusion has never achieved break-even energy output in fusor (A BIG LIE)
I just can't understand?
First, what means break-even energy output?
In my opinion, it means "to achieve more energy than is put in to initiate or power it".
Second, they talk about some "losses"! What losses???
There's no any losses in fusors. For example, any heat/light/radiation that escapes - it ESCAPES AS HEAT - which is not a loss, but just another form
of energy.
If I used a fusor to heat a room, it wouldn't have any loss, correct? Any "losses" would directly heat my room, and any fusion would heat my room for
free.
It would be like powering electric heater and paying for it (as usual). And aditionally get free energy from any successful fusion.
Correct?
[Edited on 12-2-2015 by Savior]
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Loptr
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Reference?
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Fulmen
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They aren't trying to build a giant space heater. If you can't produce electrical energy from the heat then it is considered a loss.
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Chemosynthesis
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^This. Just because energy is produced, doesn't mean it is useful. You lose some energy in friction, heat, escaping particles, etc. that is not
harnessed in providing work. At least, not work you want. Sometimes work is done where you don't want it, creating wear and tear.
This plays into break even energy, as there are always losses in efficiency somewhere down the line. Whether you pay for it, or the sun, Big Bang,
whatever is the question.
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Varmint
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These are nuclear physicists not climate "scientists", so you can trust them.
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careysub
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Quote: Originally posted by Savior  | I just can't understand?
First, what means break-even energy output?
In my opinion, it means "to achieve more energy than is put in to initiate or power it".
Second, they talk about some "losses"! What losses???
There's no any losses in fusors. For example, any heat/light/radiation that escapes - it ESCAPES AS HEAT - which is not a loss, but just another form
of energy.
If I used a fusor to heat a room, it wouldn't have any loss, correct? Any "losses" would directly heat my room, and any fusion would heat my room for
free.
It would be like powering electric heater and paying for it (as usual). And aditionally get free energy from any successful fusion.
Correct?
[Edited on 12-2-2015 by Savior] |
Breakeven means that the device is capable of powering itself, in a sense (but not a practical sense, really doing this via producing electricty
requires many times breakeven).
It would be far cheaper (capital cost wise) to simply run the electricity through a resistance unit to heat your room.
If the fusor produced enough fusion to measurably increase the heat output of the unit (given the inherent limitations in making these sorts of
measurements) the room would contain lethal levels of radiation.
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neptunium
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i dont know if you ever played with a fusor but it does get pretty warm pretty quickly !
But thats hardly the point as said before.
if you are looking at the whole system from a thermodynamic stand point then of course nothing has been lost !
but the purpose of these device is either neutron generation or ,was, to generate cheap reliable safe electrical energy from thermonuclear fusion, and
it just does not measure up to that .
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Savior
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But they will anyway use heat to generate electricity, just like in todays fission and coal power plants! And all radiations (neutrons, x-ray, uv,
gamma, bremsstrahlung, light) will convert to heat. Additionally neutrons can be used for making gold or something.
Looks like I need to test it. Make fusor, put it underwater and use same quantity of electric energy to boil same amount of water using normal
heating, and with fusor...and if more water evaporates with fusor, I am successful. Also if 10 times more water evaporates it means 10 times more
energy is produced.
Posting results here if I succeed!
[Edited on 13-2-2015 by Savior]
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phlogiston
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You are correct in principle, and more water will boil than without fusion.
But the amount of energy is extremely minuscule. You will not be able to detect a difference with the amount of steam generated just from the energy
you put into the system.
Before you seriously embark on an experimental test of your idea, first calculate the amount of power from the rate of fusion in a typical fusor, and
the additional rate of steam you expect from that.
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"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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Fulmen
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Quite true, but they never operate at anywhere near 100% efficiency. In order for heat to be useful you need high temperatures, for instance it will
be hard to utilize the heat produced by the fusor power supply that operates at fairly low temperatures.
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careysub
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| Quote: Originally posted by Savior | | ...And all radiations (neutrons, x-ray, uv, gamma, bremsstrahlung, light) will convert to heat. Additionally neutrons can be used for making gold or
something. |
However, unless heavily shielded, a portion of those ionizing radiations will convert to heat in your body, after creating free radicals that will
scramble your DNA (even at low levels).
| Quote: | Looks like I need to test it. Make fusor, put it underwater and use same quantity of electric energy to boil same amount of water using normal
heating, and with fusor...and if more water evaporates with fusor, I am successful. Also if 10 times more water evaporates it means 10 times more
energy is produced.
Posting results here if I succeed!
|
Please post if you succeed in making a fusor at all, with pictures. It is certainly doable.
But you don't show even elementary familiarity with the physics or math involved, so you won't succeed.
You can look up the operating parameters of existing fusors quite easily and determine in the space of a few minutes (if you can do the simple math
involved) to tell how much heat they really generate from fusion.
I could do it (if I timed myself it would be less than three minutes surely, mostly spent in finding the material on-line). But I won't.
I am not responding to your posts any more unless you show a level of familiarity with nuclear physics, and the ability and willingness to do basic
calculations that I had when I was 13 years old and in 8th grade (I was a smart kid, but still...).
[Edited on 13-2-2015 by careysub]
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whiteshadow
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A fusor is a device that uses an electric field to heat ions to conditions suitable for nuclear fusion. The machine has a voltage between two metal
cages inside a vacuum. Positive ions fall down this voltage drop, building up speed. If they collide in the center, they can fuse. This is a type of
Inertial electrostatic confinement devicer
And what careysub told might be correct!
please post the pics of it if u succed
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neptunium
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the electrical field does not heat the plasma Whiteshadow.. the central negative (cathode) pole is mostly hollow so the accelerated ion pass though it
and on rare occasion collide with other ions coming from all directions . I thought about making one myself back in 2008... but abandoned the idea
when I couldn't get any deuterium
[Edited on 23-4-2015 by neptunium]
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careysub
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | ...I thought about making one myself back in 2008... but abandoned the idea when I couldn't get any deuterium
[Edited on 23-4-2015 by neptunium] |
You do know that United Nuclear is offering high grade heavy water now, right?
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neptunium
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yeah i know .... just kind of lost interest a little bit you know
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IrC
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I have 120 gm of D2O from UN. My question is where can an individual buy it at lower cost.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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j_sum1
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If I recall correctly, Argent Scientific http://argentscientific.com/ intends to stock D2O in the near future for Australian users.
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ave369
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I don't think a fusor heats up faster than a hot water heater consuming the same wattage. Otherwise we would ride trains pulled by fusor-heated
chugga-chugga steam locomotives by now.
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hissingnoise
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Poor, clueless moron!
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