Cinderblocks
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Producing Cyanide From Cyanuric Acid
I have decided to make cyanide, particularly NaCN. I have also decided to use Cyanuric Acid in the production, because I already have some for my
swimming pool.
I am aware of the cyanide "mega-thread" (http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=23). No one post has a very good explanation, and adding multiple post to create a recipe
could be dangerous. So I am asking here for the recipe that works (unlike PMJB)
tl;dr How to make NaCN with cyanuric acid
[Edited on 22-12-2014 by Cinderblocks]
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gdflp
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If you need to ask for a "recipe", then you shouldn't be messing with cyanides. Search the forum first if you are really interested and do your own
research.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=11411
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17529
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Cinderblocks
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I had already seen those links. Those involve using urea (not cyanuric acid)
Also, this is sciencemadness, not englishmadness. It doesn't really matter how I describe how I will make cyanide.
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gdflp
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No my point is not that you used the word recipe, it's the idea that you're asking for a step-by-step procedure instead of doing your own research.
The first link has the title "Cyanide from Cyanuric Acid". The second one is about urea, but it's the same process really, forming the alkali cyanate
is the easy part whether it's from urea or cyanuric acid. Reduction to cyanide is the difficult part.
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Magpie
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We don't know anything about you yet you expect that we will provide you with a recipe for NaCN. We don't want your death or that of others on our
hands.
Starting off by getting wise with those you hope will feed you is not a good idea.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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HgDinis25
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Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  | | No my point is not that you used the word recipe, it's the idea that you're asking for a step-by-step procedure instead of doing your own research.
The first link has the title "Cyanide from Cyanuric Acid". The second one is about urea, but it's the same process really, forming the alkali cyanate
is the easy part whether it's from urea or cyanuric acid. Reduction to cyanide is the difficult part. |
He wants to mess with Cyanide. Anyone smart enough would want too (step-by-step procedure). He should know how the reaction goes, he should be smart
on the chemistry but you can't blame him for trying to find an actual working procedure for the production of deadly compounds, can you?
With that said, I think the OP should be a little bit more clear. Do you actualy know the basics of chemistry or do you need the compound for
non-chemistry uses? If so, I strongly sugest you not to try any procedure that may require the handling of gaseous (or aquous for that matter) HCN if
you don't know how to handle poisonous gases. Please do be more explicit abot what you already know.
[Edited on 22-12-2014 by HgDinis25]
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Cinderblocks
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I do not want a step-by-step guide on how to make cyanide. Apparently that's what the connotations mean, so I apologies.
So you are saying to make cyanide you reduce cyanuric acid? That's all I wanted to know.
I may need to use some other method, and use my cyanuric acid for its intended use...
| Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25 | | Quote: Originally posted by gdflp | | No my point is not that you used the word recipe, it's the idea that you're asking for a step-by-step procedure instead of doing your own research.
The first link has the title "Cyanide from Cyanuric Acid". The second one is about urea, but it's the same process really, forming the alkali cyanate
is the easy part whether it's from urea or cyanuric acid. Reduction to cyanide is the difficult part. |
He wants to mess with Cyanide. Anyone smart enough would want too (step-by-step procedure). He should know how the reaction goes, he should be smart
on the chemistry but you can't blame him for trying to find an actual working procedure for the production of deadly compounds, can you?
With that said, I think the OP should be a little bit more clear. Do you actualy know the basics of chemistry or do you need the compound for
non-chemistry uses? If so, I strongly sugest you not to try any procedure that may require the handling of gaseous (or aquous for that matter) HCN if
you don't know how to handle poisonous gases. Please do be more explicit abot what you already know.
[Edited on 22-12-2014 by HgDinis25] |
So you want me to be more explicit? Okay, here I go.
I have taken a few chemistry classes, nothing special. However, I am not making HCN. Just NaCN (or KCN if I have to)-who wouldn't want some NaCN?
Sorry if I'm expected to know the chemical reactions, new textbooks steer away from cyanide.
Hope I cleared stuff up.
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Bert
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Thread Moved
22-12-2014 at 14:29 |
gdflp
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All of us just want to make sure you do this safely. Cyanides are highly toxic, since you've only taken a few chemistry classes you don't have much
lab experience. Where are you planning on doing this and what kind of equipment do you have? If you just want cyanides for having cyanides I hope
you reconsider. If not, it may be safer for you to buy some from a supplier, HMS Beagle will sell you 5g of KCN if you are in the US.
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Cinderblocks
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A like how there are 7 replies and no one answered the question.
I'm most likely (95%) not going to do this, but what about the question?
Does reduction on cyanuric acid create cyanide? Yay or nay?
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gdflp
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Read the links, the information is there. Specifically, the first few pages of the large cyanide thread, and the last post of the first link I gave
you.
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Mailinmypocket
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It's interesting how there are new members who get somewhat irate and bossy when directed to the answer they seek and not given an answer immediately
via the forum spoon.
First post says you have decided to make NaCN and that you have cyanuric acid, great! Now you are 95% not going to make it but still seem very keen
on finding out if you can, that's fine but do be careful. Is there a particular use for the cyanide? Maybe we can suggest alternative reagents to make
your reaction work! You did say "who doesn't want some NaCN?" Which makes it sound like you want it for the novelty of being able to say you have it.
The link gdflp kindly provided answers your question and the forum contains many discussions on how to make cyanides, how much more help can you need?
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chemrox
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Please pay attention to what magpie and others have said. Offering chemical syntheses to a member is a courtesy not an obligation. This is not a drop
in lounge for immediate answers to questions involving dicey materials. Like the man said, if you don't know don't mess with it. Or more to the point
don't bother us with it. Maybe your mother knows, ask her.
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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j_sum1
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The thing I don't undetstand here is why. There are so many intetesting things you can do to build up your skills and knowledge faster without playing
with chemicals that can kill you. Some of these things even involve cyanuric acid.
You will have more fun i you're not dead.
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Chemosynthesis
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I beg to differ. As a science forum, per guidelines, it's preferable to use proper nomenclature and terminology whenever possible.
"Scientific discourse using accepted scientific terminology is obviously the most desirable[....]"
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=19...
See also point "9. List of things to avoid."
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IrC
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| Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25 | | I strongly suggest you not to try any procedure that may require the handling of gaseous (or aqueous for that matter) HCN if you don't know how to
handle poisonous gases. Please do be more explicit about what you already know. |
| Quote: Originally posted by Cinderblocks | I have taken a few chemistry classes, nothing special. However, I am not making HCN. Just NaCN (or KCN if I have to)-who wouldn't want some NaCN?
Hope I cleared stuff up. |
You cleared up nothing. Obviously you know next to nothing about chemistry and have even less experience. If you had tried even a little to understand
what was being said to you instead of having an attitude you might have learned something that could have one day saved you. HgDinis25 was not saying
you were trying to make HCN, he was warning you of an actual possibility of what could or would be going on while the reaction was taking place.
What is it with all these new low post people coming in and right off asking for 'recipes' for things even very experienced chemists shy away from
unless they must for something they are working on? If you could read what was being said without taking offense you might have understood using the
word 'recipe' tells anyone with even small experience you are not very knowledgeable in the most basic chemistry. Quite simply because as you learn in
a professional setting (or on your own to a similar level), you no longer use such language because by then you have become well versed in the
nomenclature chemists use professionally. 'recipe' is what you say when asking for the way to make a banana split. Come to think of it I doubt I would
trust you or your motives enough to even provide that.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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chemrox
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BTW I have a # bottle of NaCN I haven't opened for over 5 years. I thought I might do a Strecker but decided on another approach. I've been causally
looking for my cyanuric chloride but haven't tracked it down yet. So many chemicals so little time...such poor organization!
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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