Little_Ghost_again
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Recomendations for gas mask
Hi
although I built a fume hood, it is a bit small at times! So for general safety I would like a gas mask, what are the recommended types to use? I
looked on ebay but there are so many different ones I didnt have a clue what would be best, so what do you all use?
I am going to build a much bigger hood from scratch this time, The airflow was plenty but the actual size to small, so this time I am going to turn
one bench and wall into a hood and tile it.
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wish i had a kraken!!!
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I think It dependes to what type of chemicals You are going to work! Plz give us more clue ,for example
are U going to work with gaseous Hydrogen Cyanide ?
[Edited on 31-10-2014 by wish i had a kraken!!!]
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Little_Ghost_again
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Hi
I am sorry, I forget that not everyone reads my every word and therefore most people probably dont have a clue what I mess with!
I dont use anything like cyanide, mostly its solvents and acids, I guess I would call it all general reagents. Actually I am not so bothered by the
cancer threat of things but some things like hydrochloric acid make me throw up!
Maybe something to do with my medication but a single whiff and off I go.
I will also be doing pyrolysis of woods and plastics, there is sure to be plenty in there to make me sick. I was kind of hoping that there was a
general excepted all round device that people used. Sorry its so vague but as a beginner I dont know what avenues I am going to travel yet! I try out
some of Aga's things (that cant be healthy lol) and apart from soap I mostly use solvent for extractions and then beginner stuff to learn from.
Its more a question of trying out things and not being sure what is going to be produced as a side reaction.
I have been messing about with the haloform reaction using all kinds of alcohols.
I have access to a gas mask used on farms for pesticides etc, just not so sure how good it is for other things!
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careysub
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If you are just concerned with respiratory hazard (not eye irritation) then a half-mask is fine, otherwise a full face mask is called for.
It is essential that the mask make a tight seal against the skin all the way around. If is does not seal then adjust it, if you cannot then don't use
it.
Full face masks are given higher protection ratings even against respiratory-only challenges due to being less prone to residual seal leakage.
Look at these for consideration:
http://www.uline.com/BL_1091/3M-5000-Respirators
These are "disposable" respirators, when the life of the cartridge is done the mask is discarded. You can get masks with replaceable cartridges for a
somewhat more.
You should get an organic vapor plus acid gas cartridge. When working with chemicals particulate filtration is rarely needed (or even helpful) so the
N95 cartridge (which is a particulate rating) is extra expense of no value.
There are toxic chemicals that if you choose to make them or work with them you must always wear a mask, even with the best fume hood in the world.
Prime examples are hydrogen cyanide and dimethyl sulfate (this last requires a full face mask).
Max Klemke ("myfanwy94" on this board) killed himself making phosgene, but would be alive today if he had worn a mask.
I would look to buy from a regular protective equipment vendor as my first choice, rather than eBay.
[Edited on 31-10-2014 by careysub]
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careysub
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You should be.
One of the greatest risks in chemistry are chemicals that have long-delayed effects and thus provide no warning signs of hazardous exposure, often
these are carcinogenic, but not exclusively.
It is possible to go overboard with fearing carcinogens (they are not all alike - many are actually very weak), but you should absolutely take that
into consideration when doing your MSDS research before any experiment.
You do perform risk research on all of your reagents, products, and reactions before doing an experiment, right?
This is one signal advantage we have over chemists of old (or even the recent past) - ready accessibility to hazard information, and an awareness of
managing risk.
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Little_Ghost_again
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Quote: Originally posted by careysub  | If you are just concerned with respiratory hazard (not eye irritation) then a half-mask is fine, otherwise a full face mask is called for.
It is essential that the mask make a tight seal against the skin all the way around. If is does not seal then adjust it, if you cannot then don't use
it.
Full face masks are given higher protection ratings even against respiratory-only challenges due to being less prone to residual seal leakage.
Look at these for consideration:
http://www.uline.com/BL_1091/3M-5000-Respirators
These are "disposable" respirators, when the life of the cartridge is done the mask is discarded. You can get masks with replaceable cartridges for a
somewhat more.
You should get an organic vapor plus acid gas cartridge. When working with chemicals particulate filtration is rarely needed (or even helpful) so the
N95 cartridge (which is a particulate rating) is extra expense of no value.
There are toxic chemicals that if you choose to make them or work with them you must always wear a mask, even with the best fume hood in the world.
Prime examples are hydrogen cyanide and dimethyl sulfate (this last requires a full face mask).
Max Klemke ("myfanwy94" on this board) killed himself making phosgene, but would be alive today if he had worn a mask.
I would look to buy from a regular protective equipment vendor as my first choice, rather than eBay.
[Edited on 31-10-2014 by careysub] |
Thank you very much, I now know what to go look for, having read about the member here I think I better go get rid of my chloroform thats not
stabilized at the moment!
You may not know but the cancer thing was a reference that despite being only 14 I already have terminal cancer, so while I do understand the normal
reasons for people to take precautions with this kind of thing, for me it's already there and I am not going to be getting better.
Really shocking to hear about the phosgene. Probably I will go for a full face mask, no idea why but the strangest smells seem to make me vomit at the
moment, also I have no idea how some things would react with my body full of drugs and medication of numerous description. It was the numbers on the
filters that threw me, my old hood was great but around here power cuts are frequent and always only ever happen when its most annoying, like just as
the laptop needs charging.
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Amos
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Whoa whoa whoa, that chloroform's not going to kill you. Max was producing phosgene on purpose; that guy was completely enamored with extremely
poisonous substances. Phosgene, if produced in your bottled-up chloroform, will not occur in significant enough amounts to harm anyone, especially not
if it's removed from sunlight. Chloroform is made and used so commonly, there'd be a lot more of us dead if the risk was that high.
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careysub
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| Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again |
[Edited on 31-10-2014 by careysub][/rquote]
Thank you very much, I now know what to go look for, having read about the member here I think I better go get rid of my chloroform thats not
stabilized at the moment!
You may not know but the cancer thing was a reference that despite being only 14 I already have terminal cancer, so while I do understand the normal
reasons for people to take precautions with this kind of thing, for me it's already there and I am not going to be getting better.
Really shocking to hear about the phosgene. Probably I will go for a full face mask, no idea why but the strangest smells seem to make me vomit at the
moment, also I have no idea how some things would react with my body full of drugs and medication of numerous description. It was the numbers on the
filters that threw me, my old hood was great but around here power cuts are frequent and always only ever happen when its most annoying, like just as
the laptop needs charging. |
I am so sorry to hear that! That is shocking.
I have just lost my own 16 year old daughter to leukemia (and whom I was introducing to chemistry and other sciences).
Yes, do get the full face mask. She found her skin often very sensitive to outside factors during her illness.
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Little_Ghost_again
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| Quote: Originally posted by careysub | | Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again |
[Edited on 31-10-2014 by careysub][/rquote]
Thank you very much, I now know what to go look for, having read about the member here I think I better go get rid of my chloroform thats not
stabilized at the moment!
You may not know but the cancer thing was a reference that despite being only 14 I already have terminal cancer, so while I do understand the normal
reasons for people to take precautions with this kind of thing, for me it's already there and I am not going to be getting better.
Really shocking to hear about the phosgene. Probably I will go for a full face mask, no idea why but the strangest smells seem to make me vomit at the
moment, also I have no idea how some things would react with my body full of drugs and medication of numerous description. It was the numbers on the
filters that threw me, my old hood was great but around here power cuts are frequent and always only ever happen when its most annoying, like just as
the laptop needs charging. |
I am so sorry to hear that! That is shocking.
I have just lost my own 16 year old daughter to leukemia (and whom I was introducing to chemistry and other sciences).
Yes, do get the full face mask. She found her skin often very sensitive to outside factors during her illness. |
I noticed when using a uv lamp designed for minerals etc with two different bulbs in it, that I cant put my hands under the shortwave light at all.
I dont much like the smell of the rubber but its better than some the solvents  .
My chloroform is in the dark and pretty fresh  . I read about the kid building the
reactor in his shed!! Man and my parents think its rough with me!!
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aga
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The half-face respirator i got has 2 replaceable cartridges, both with A1 rating, which is supposed to be proof against 'Gas & Organic Vapours'.
Having experienced the Joys of an HCl cloud, i think i'll get the full face version.
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blogfast25
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Personally I think experiments that cannot be safely dealt with by a decent fumehood should probably not be conducted by hobbyists.
There is so much that can be done safely and is interesting to do even w/o fumehood that I don't see the need for experiments that require gas masks
or respirators.
Experiments that require these precautions can also go wrong in ways that affect bystanders. Professionally equipped laboratories are much better
equipped to deal with such emergencies than backyard scientists.
If in doubt, don't do it.
Unless you're producing liters and liters of that stuff, quickly shutting off heat (to kill any reaction) in case of a mishap and taking
flight (the ultimate precaution!) is probably more practical than ANY type of mask.
[Edited on 31-10-2014 by blogfast25]
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Little_Ghost_again
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | Personally I think experiments that cannot be safely dealt with by a decent fumehood should probably not be conducted by hobbyists.
There is so much that can be done safely and is interesting to do even w/o fumehood that I don't see the need for experiments that require gas masks
or respirators.
Experiments that require these precautions can also go wrong in ways that affect bystanders. Professionally equipped laboratories are much better
equipped to deal with such emergencies than backyard scientists.
If in doubt, don't do it. |
To be honest its highly unlikely I will knowingly make something that bad, but my two main reasons for a mask are..
1) just in case I do something and my work space needs a clean up, say like Aga's Hcl cloud
2) I am getting more sensitive to smells of everyday solvents and because I am on a trial drug I have no way to know what might react with it.
but mostly its because silly things have started to make me vomit, like a simple mint steam distillation, on smelling the product I was sick. Its a
real problem when soap making!!
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blogfast25
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LGA:
HCl is quite easily dealt with even if you're allergic (for want of a better word) to it. It's enormous affinity for water makes designing experiments
that will absorb any surplus HCl fairly easy.
Dissolution of metals for instance can be done in a reflux apparatus with top side connected to a HCl scrubber. Allow another inlet near the flask for
flushing with air (flushed through the scrubber also) when you're done and everything is cooled down.
But mint is a different proposition altogether!
[Edited on 31-10-2014 by blogfast25]
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Little_Ghost_again
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | LGA:
HCl is quite easily dealt with even if you're allergic (for want of a better word) to it. It's enormous affinity for water makes designing experiments
that will absorb any surplus HCl fairly easy.
Dissolution of metals for instance can be done in a reflux apparatus with top side connected to a HCl scrubber. Allow another inlet near the flask for
flushing with air (flushed through the scrubber also) when you're done and everything is cooled down.
But mint is a different proposition altogether!
[Edited on 31-10-2014 by blogfast25] |
Water mint to be precise, one of my all time favorite smells! Or it was.
If I am honest what worries me more is doing something and having to leave it unattended while I am ermm............busy.
Its a very recent thing (the last week or so), maybe it will go away dont know, but for now it might be worth getting a mask.
I should build a screen for the uv lamp anyway, it has two wave lengths and while I forget the exact lengths now I do know one is short and one is
long, the short one is a strange tube with two short elements (one each end), it has a strange almost green like glow, the other is more like a black
light.
My TLC plate glow well under it though  . I am having camera trouble again!! but
hope to have some pics this weekend, my lab space is pretty good, but a full bench flow Cabinet would be easier to make than the type of hood I
originally made.
This time I am going to tile it to make it easier to clean
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aga
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Ah crap.
Surely 'forum drunkard' would discourage anyone from repeating any rubbish i do ?
The "Cloud" was possibly a bit exaggerated for comic effect.
Anyway, Result : this 'Cloud' would not take any of my photo uploads, so 'The Cloud' isn't HCl based.
Blogger's suggestion of Running Away is a most excellent idea when faced with impending nastiness.
Far more effective than just wearing a mask.
This doesn't hold true for EM, Fusion or Fission, so pick your experiments Wisely.
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careysub
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OTOH - if someone asks for advice about selecting a chemical protection mask I am going to give them my best advice on how to select and wear one.
I am not going to just tell them - you shouldn't bother, your fume hood will do everything you need (perhaps true, perhaps not - unless you've seen
it), and anyway you shouldn't do any experiments where the protection might materially improve your safety, so don't bother.
This a bit like arguing against safety belts and fire extinguishers - affordable, effective safety devices, but that if you do everything right, and
have no accidents, you will never need.
I have a chemical respirator half mask for working with almost any volatile solvent, including paints.
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Little_Ghost_again
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | Ah crap.
Surely 'forum drunkard' would discourage anyone from repeating any rubbish i do ?
The "Cloud" was possibly a bit exaggerated for comic effect.
Anyway, Result : this 'Cloud' would not take any of my photo uploads, so 'The Cloud' isn't HCl based.
Blogger's suggestion of Running Away is a most excellent idea when faced with impending nastiness.
Far more effective than just wearing a mask.
This doesn't hold true for EM, Fusion or Fission, so pick your experiments Wisely. |
Nah the fact is I cant take the smells anymore! dosnt matter much if there safe or not. What matters more is having to leave everything on and rush
off for a bit!
I am hoping this dosnt last long but in case it does I am gonna get a mask. I noticed last night I cant stand burning wax wick smell anymore.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by careysub | I am not going to just tell them - you shouldn't bother, your fume hood will do everything you need (perhaps true, perhaps not - unless you've seen
it), and anyway you shouldn't do any experiments where the protection might materially improve your safety, so don't bother.
This a bit like arguing against safety belts and fire extinguishers - affordable, effective safety devices, but that if you do everything right, and
have no accidents, you will never need.
|
Your point is a big, fat straw man. I didn't argue against safety measures AT ALL.
I'd like to see a poll here to establish how many SMers actually own a gas mask or respirator and use it regularly. Very few do because very few
really need it. Masking up needlessly doesn't improve safety, quite the opposite because they impair movement and communication somewhat.
The analogy with safety belts and fire extinguishers is RUBBISH. Safety belts and fire extinguishers are essential and inobtrusive (and inexpensive)
safety measures that save thousands of lives each year. Gas masks and respirators are safety measures adopted rarely by most chemists, including
professional ones, only when and where it's necessary. No comparison.
[Edited on 1-11-2014 by blogfast25]
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Little_Ghost_again
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now now calm down everybody! Safety isnt the main reason am after one, but seeing as nee to get one I thought it an idea to see what was recommended
generally for chemistry work.
From a safety aspect a noob like me has the awful habit of wondering what if I add this syndrome! While I wont deny its totaly stupid to add something
to something else without an idea whats going to happen, as a beginner there is always the risk even if we think we know what to expect it goes wrong.
I kind of have this argument with my dad,he insists I wear gloves but rarely does he. So the argument goes something like this,
ME: dad why do I have to wear gloves?
MY DAD: because its safer
ME: so why dont you wear them?
MY DAD: because I am safer without them
ME: how do you work that out?
MY DAD: Because gloves give you a false sense of security
ME: so its safer to not wear gloves then
MY DAD : NO! just put the fucking gloves on
ME: So I have have to wear gloves even though you think its safer not too?
MY DAD: Put your goggles on
parents...................
Our Dyson hoover is broken so now I am wondering if I can turbo charge my fume
hood with it !
Actually the fans I used in my old hood worked really well, I did have the datasheet for them but cant find it at the mo, so I cant give you the
airflow for them. They came in a bank of 24, in a row of 12 with each fan having another one behind it, originally they were out of a very large
server Cabinet at the uni.
They are pretty small and run on 12V, but they shift some air!
I had it set up so the air and fumes inside the hood didnt go near the actual fans, they blow down side chutes into another tube, this exits through
the wall to the outside. The bottom of the exit tube is connected to the hood, so the air is pushed into the tube and sucks up the fumes from the hood
as it exits.
I used smoke pellets to test it and a mickey mouse wind speed thing to set it up with, I was really pleased with the results, I also have a split
rubber hose seal around the front of the cabinet, so if things go tits up I can close the front of the hood down and seal it off.
So far for what I do its over kill, but I dont know how the drugs I take would react with chemicals I use.
I am going to get a full face one then I dont need to bother with goggles.
After my run in with sodium hydroxide I wear the long arm length gloves used for sticking your hand up a cows non eating end, then nitrile gloves on
top if needed.
I cant wear the latex gloves they now react with my skin and I get a bad rash. I want to move my lab completely to a outbuilding over the next couple
of weeks.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again | ME: dad why do I have to wear gloves?
MY DAD: because its safer
ME: so why dont you wear them?
MY DAD: because I am safer without them
ME: how do you work that out?
MY DAD: Because gloves give you a false sense of security
ME: so its safer to not wear gloves then
MY DAD : NO! just put the fucking gloves on
ME: So I have have to wear gloves even though you think its safer not too?
MY DAD: Put your goggles on
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Life is full of genuine contradictions, LGA. You are, in a nutshell, BOTH right and BOTH wrong.
[Edited on 1-11-2014 by blogfast25]
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