goldenoranges
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Urea as substitute?
So, instead of buying cold packs and dissolving the AN and recrystallizing, I was wondering if I could substitute the Urea found in the new 34-0-0
fertilizer instead of AN? It is cheaper. I have about 56lbs of AN, and that cost a ton of money to get, buying cold packs and cutting open the
baggies, then recrystallizing it all to get the gunk out.
Specifically, can it be substituted in something like ANNMSA? Or maybe ANNMAL?
Thanks!
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Metacelsus
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No.
However, it is possible (although impractical) to make ammonium nitrate from urea. You would need to heat with alkali to get ammonia gas, then do the
Ostwald process on some of the ammonia to form nitric acid, then react the nitric acid and ammonia. At this point it would be cheaper to just buy the
ammonium nitrate.
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goldenoranges
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Yeah you are probably right... Damn I am going to have to get my farmer friend to get me some then. Thanks for clarifying though!
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roXefeller
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But urea doesn't contain an explosophore. The ANNM is essentially taking a very 'inert' explosive (AN) and sensitizing it with some amount of doping
to make it useful. NM in this case has extra energy that fuel oil doesn't. Maybe if you nitrated the urea? But if you are talking about ternary
compositions, what about just sensitizing the NM and calling it a day. You'll end up using more NM in the process, making up for the lack of AN.
Really should ask how much AN is enough? 100kg isn't a hobby its a b--b. For alot of people here, the cost of the glassware is enough to buy several
pounds of AN as ice packs and that should be enough to keep you busy for a couple days.
[Edited on 5-9-2014 by roXefeller]
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franklyn
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This characterizes you as a terrorist bomber. This quantity which for most of us here is a lifetime supply
is gotten in one bag of agricultural grade. If you think that was fun , you'll have lots more fun trying to
obtain Nitromethane nowadays in even modest quantity.
Urea by itself is useless without an oxidizer and sometime even that.
What the package label says is what is contained aside from standard agricultural fertilizer codes.
Single ingredient fertilizer coded 34 00 00 is 100% Ammonium Nitrate
mol weight of Nitrogen divided by mol weight of Ammonium Nitrate , 28 / 80 is 35 % of Nitrogen ,
The first number is the percent Nitrogen the middle number is Phosphorus and the last is Potassium
Urea only fertilizer is 46 00 00
mol weight of Nitrogen divided by mol weight of Urea , 28 / 60 is 46.7 % of Nitrogen
Other codes indicate mixtures with other things.
http://www.ncagr.gov/cyber/kidswrld/plant/label.htm
Calcium Nitrate Urea (33.8) 00 00 is of interest since it will provide Urea Nitrate when titrated with
Sulfuric acid to precipitate Calcium Sulfate. Calcium Nitrate will get you Ammonium Nitrate in a
metathetical mixture with Ammonium Sulfate , also another fertilizer.
Using the search engine :
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13470#...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1778&a...
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Fantasma4500
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ah.. only 56 pounds
i dont judge, but whoever you disturb with those amounts may want to see you executed
4kg will be heard at least 4km away, alarmingly loudly 4km away that is
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goldenoranges
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I have property in the country that I regularly go to. And how does it classify me as a terrorist bomber, haha! And getting nitromethane isn't that
hard... (amazon link below for 5 gallons).
I don't think having explosives classifies me as a 'terrorist'? Explosives, like guns, are a tool, which can be used for good or bad, and having them
shouldn't classify you as a criminal. Not to mention that 'terrorist' is thrown around so much today, and has been used to pass many a bill limiting
rights in the states. Now it is 'homegrown terrorist' that is becoming popular! The USA can't even trust its own citizens, and why is that I wonder?
Because they trust us so much probably. Besides that, I have an ATF stamp that says I am allowed to possess them.
And I use ammonium nitrate for other stuff things besides just explosives, I use it for reactions as well to create other chemicals.
http://www.amazon.com/Torco-Nitro-race-fuel-Nitromethane/dp/... i bought one of these a while back and have kept it since. Haven't even used a
gallon yet, although I probably would get on a couple of 'lists' if I tried to buy 10 5 gallon barrels of it haha... If I am not already.
But thank you for the valuable information on fertilizers, I think the website I was visiting to look at them has mislabeled them. It has them as
34-0-0, but when I looked at the MSDS it said 100% Urea. Also, thanks for the links to the other threads they had useful information as well.
Just a question, but what sort of a reaction between Ca(NO3)2 and (NH4)2SO4 would I have to do to get NH4NO3? EDIT: NEvermind a little bit of
searching and I found the answer.
Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  | ah.. only 56 pounds
i dont judge, but whoever you disturb with those amounts may want to see you executed
4kg will be heard at least 4km away, alarmingly loudly 4km away that is |
Heh... way back when I was a kid, I set off my first ANNMAL test, it was 1/8 of a lb. I lived in a white neighborhood, and when I set it off the
firefighters showed up looking for a blown transformer, haha! That is what got my interested in chemistry so much. I couldn't imagine what 50lbs would
do, and I don't think I will ever try it.
[Edited on 5-9-2014 by goldenoranges]
[Edited on 5-9-2014 by goldenoranges]
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roXefeller
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Personally, I don't think you're a 'homegrown terrorist' but those who are aware of that growing threat have to consider that 'homegrown terrorists'
can be among our (the SM community) ranks. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that a handful of people triggered on loose talk like '56lbs of AN',
its due vigilance. That ATF stamp wouldn't make me broadcast so much of what I have, loose lips sink ships. If you have a stamp, just contact a chem
supplier with full disclosure, they'd be happy to sell you what you want (within the limits of the stamp). If you're worried about paper trails, then
you'll have to pay for anonymity.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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If you have urea, NH4NO3, H2SO4 to make ANNMSA or ANNMAL
You could do much more powerful things
Hints:
UNNM
UNNMAL
NUNM
NUNMAL
UN= Urea Nitrate
NU= Nitrourea
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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34-0-0 refers to N P K % in fertilizers (Nitrogen, Phosphor, Potassium %)
100% Urea should be 28g N on 60g per mole urea
--> 46.66% N or 46-0-0
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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franklyn
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@ goldenoranges
It's also on eBay , http://www.ebay.com/itm/Torco-Nitro-race-fuel-5-Gal-pail-Tor...
I'm very surprised , $40 a gallon shipping included is an exceptional value. There used to be a hazardous material fee applied
by United Parcel for ground shipping , that was avoidable if individual containers did not exceed 1 quart. Large amounts such
as 55 gallon drums require paperwork and approval. http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13633&...
Which brings me to the snide comment I made about your stated method of obtaining such quantity of NH4NO3 piecemeal ,
not having a common place use for what you are buying , a ' Terrorist ' would do the same to avoid questions. You seem to
be collecting chemicals without having any immediate idea of what you might do with them. It is important to have proper
storage , particularly segregation of those that might react accidentally. Observe the MSDS of each. You don't need icky
stuff leaching into your well water if you ever have a major spill.
http://www.chicagoartistsresource.org/art-hazard-news-1-art-...
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goldenoranges
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Thanks all! Especially franklyn, and I do probably need to keep quieter. Question answered 
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Fantasma4500
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62% HNO3 will do for HNO3NM charges
youtube ''Nitromethane & HNO3''
used to think you need 99% HNO3 for it, although..
NH4NO3 + H2SO4 and then nitromethane works aswell
anyhow the homegrown terrorist thing -- by my ''opinion'' they dont exist, thus would it be quite unlikely
lets not open up terrorist discussion here.. we all know where it will go
oh yeah.. if you can get urea you could try boiling urea nitrate and ammonium nitrate together, should give a yield of guanidine nitrate i recall,
perhaps it was just guanidine of some sort, but still guanidine
personally thought about EGDN with MHN, would be quite strong, possibly stronger than HMX
considering preparation of both compounds aswell as purification the handling wouldnt be too bad and it would rank high on practically any ratings --
although ANNMAl works for explosively formed penetrator charges, but its a sort of hobby/fantasy to get it stronger and stronger, isnt it?
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feacetech
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where im from AN is very difficult to get hold of now
however calcium ammonium nitrate (CAN) fert isnt
do you guys have CAN fert
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Bert
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Thread Moved
10-9-2014 at 19:10 |
goldenoranges
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I don't see Calcium Ammonium Nitrate for sale, at any stores.
What do you guys think of this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bulk-50lbs-Premium-Ammonium-Nitrate-...
[Edited on 13-9-2014 by goldenoranges]
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Fantasma4500
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i think 'murica
know one person who has recently gotten hold of approx 80% pure an, 25kg of it, in europe..
perhaps if you really wanna get hold of some you could take a trip to croatia, almost sure they sell it pure, 25kg would cost around 10 euro
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