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acetone
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Can we convert non food grade reagents into food grade using crystallization only
I have some zinc sulfate which I would like to eat as a dietary supplement. Thing is that I bought reagent grade Zinc Sulfate. Can I purify it through
multiple crystallizations so that it becomes food grade? Please no comments about buying multivitamins fortified with zinc. They are expensive.
The measure of a man is what he does with power.
-Plato
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Zyklon-A
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Probably, I would do at least three recrystalizations.
No guarantees though, I'm not a licensed physician, consume at your own risk!
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UnintentionalChaos
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Zinc compounds are probably the last non-food grade thing I would consider eating. Zinc tends to co-occur in ores with lead, arsenic, and cadmium, the
last of which is quite similar chemically and hardest to remove. Food-grade zinc supplements are absurdly cheap, such as http://purebulk.com/zinc-gluconate-powder.html#.U5iggvldWSo
Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!
'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
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acetone
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Thank you for this valuable info.
The measure of a man is what he does with power.
-Plato
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unionised
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The difficult question is not
"how do I purify this to make it food grade" but
"how do I know that I have purified this to make it food grade?"
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blogfast25
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Has a medically qualified person indicated (diagnosed) that you are suffering as a result of low zinc intake? I guess not because otherwise that
person would have prescribed some zinc food supplement.
So it appears you simply believe you are deficient in zinc but do not have any sound evidence for it.
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acetone
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Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  | Has a medically qualified person indicated (diagnosed) that you are suffering as a result of low zinc intake? I guess not because otherwise that
person would have prescribed some zinc food supplement.
So it appears you simply believe you are deficient in zinc but do not have any sound evidence for it. |
No I don't believe that I have any deficiency. I just wanted to know the effects of a little more zinc on my body. I eat a healthy balanced diet.
Although I'm a vegetarian.
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by acetone]
The measure of a man is what he does with power.
-Plato
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numos
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Acetone is asking if a substance can be purified in a home lab through recrystallization to make it edible, so...
Out of curiosity, how are commercial "food grade" chemicals made? Recrystallization right? I would imagine you would use a separate set of glassware,
in which no hazardous substances have been contained before.
So theoretically speaking, if you want my opinion, as long as your using new glassware and do proper recrystallizations (3 minimum, as stated) it
should be perfectly fine to take internally.
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Fantasma4500
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somehow isolate the pure zinc, electrochemical?? and then react with a pure chemical somehow
i mean.. NaOH and zinc powder and a penny and you can coat copper with zinc, recall this from the penny into silver and gold where you then heat the
zinc coated penny to make it brass aka gold coloured
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by numos | Acetone is asking if a substance can be purified in a home lab through recrystallization to make it edible, so...
Out of curiosity, how are commercial "food grade" chemicals made? Recrystallization right? I would imagine you would use a separate set of glassware,
in which no hazardous substances have been contained before.
So theoretically speaking, if you want my opinion, as long as your using new glassware and do proper recrystallizations (3 minimum, as stated) it
should be perfectly fine to take internally. |
No, he's not or at least not only. Learn to read:
"I just wanted to know the effects of a little more zinc on my body."
As regards your blind 'faith' (because that's what it is) in recrystallization, it's risible. Sure, recrystallization CAN eliminate impurities,
sometimes very effectively. But without knowing what you put in (analysis) and what you get out (more analysis!) you're driving blind. Would you
blindly consume something that previously contained a toxin just because you've recrystallized it three times? What if it co-crystallises three times,
huh?
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by blogfast25]
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blogfast25
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@acetone:
This kind of 'self-medication' is pointless and very little is likely to be gleaned from it. Suppose you do obtain food grade 'zinc whatever' and
ingest some over some period of time, then what? What measuring response will you use to scientifically evaluate anything? Just 'how I feel'? Any
analysis of blood or urine? If you can't do any of that and don't have training in the body's metabolism it's a wasteful and potentially still
dangerous exercise in futility.
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acetone
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | @acetone:
This kind of 'self-medication' is pointless and very little is likely to be gleaned from it. Suppose you do obtain food grade 'zinc whatever' and
ingest some over some period of time, then what? What measuring response will you use to scientifically evaluate anything? Just 'how I feel'? Any
analysis of blood or urine? If you can't do any of that and don't have training in the body's metabolism it's a wasteful and potentially still
dangerous exercise in futility. |
OK but I still want to eat some zinc. Still my question makes sense that - "Can you purify non food grade materials into food grade material using
recrystallization alone?" You must be having bad days. The tone of your post sounds cranky.
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by acetone]
The measure of a man is what he does with power.
-Plato
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Zyklon-A
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The answer is "yes", but to what extent? Sure, you can purify it, but how will you know when it's pure enough to orally ingest?
It's too big of a gamble I think, maybe five recrystallizations would be enough, but why take the chance?
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | OK but I still want to eat some zinc. |
Why not just gorge on Zn-rich foods ─ that should (in time?) get it up and working like new?
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Zyklon-A
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Yeah, eat a bunch of cooked oysters!
100 grams contain 78.6mg of zinc (524% DV).
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by acetone | | [Still my question makes sense that - "Can you purify non food grade materials into food grade material using recrystallization alone?"[Edited on
12-6-2014 by acetone] |
No, it doesn't make much sense at all: it's far too generic. It makes about as much sense as 'eating zinc', crankiness aside...
It [recrystallizing] would work for some, not for others. There's no simple 'yes/no' answer.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | @acetone:
This kind of 'self-medication' is pointless and very little is likely to be gleaned from it. Suppose you do obtain food grade 'zinc whatever' and
ingest some over some period of time, then what? What measuring response will you use to scientifically evaluate anything? Just 'how I feel'? Any
analysis of blood or urine? If you can't do any of that and don't have training in the body's metabolism it's a wasteful and potentially still
dangerous exercise in futility. |
I suppose you always consult medical databases before ingesting ethanol, painkillers, or any chemical that affects mental states, before you can be
sure whether there was a noticeable effect.
Yeah, yeah, dietary supplements aren't the same thing, and many are more likely to have a placebo effect than to make a real physiological difference,
but that doesn't mean nothing can ever be gleaned from personal experimentation.
[Edited on 6-12-2014 by Etaoin Shrdlu]
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blogfast25
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To glean meaningful information from well designed, sufficiently large clinical double blind tests is hard enough, but from a single non-medically
trained self experimenter? Very little is to be learned from that, especially if the placebo effect isn't measured (it can't be with a single data
point of course).
You might as well eat an apple a day (if you aren't already), then claim: 'hey, I feel better for that!'. Scientifically that means diddly squat.
Attributing any well being to the apple is a belief system. I thought we were here to do science.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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Yeah...not my point. He's not trying to do a statistically significant study. He's just curious whether he will notice effects on himself, personally,
from taking zinc supplements. Those results might absolutely be the result of a placebo effect, but that doesn't make the inquiry itself any less
scientific. This is not even close to a problem unless he starts running around trying to con/help/convince other people people based on one lone data
point (as so many others have done).
Once again, you drink ethanol, you take aspirin for a headache, and then come back and tell me nothing "meaningful" was gleaned from the effects. How
exactly is one lone person taking dietary supplements out of curiosity any less a scientific undertaking than one lone person trying to find an
effective method to recrystallize that supplement to a certain level of purity?
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acetone
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
To glean meaningful information from well designed, sufficiently large clinical double blind tests is hard enough, but from a single non-medically
trained self experimenter? Very little is to be learned from that, especially if the placebo effect isn't measured (it can't be with a single data
point of course).
You might as well eat an apple a day (if you aren't already), then claim: 'hey, I feel better for that!'. Scientifically that means diddly squat.
Attributing any well being to the apple is a belief system. I thought we were here to do science. |
You do "science" your way and I'll do science my way. You might have heard or used the med class called antidepressants. These are drugs which improve
your mood. But mood cannot be quantified. These meds can improve mood but not in everyone and still they sell good. There are many ADs on the market.
It is not known why a particular med works for one and not for the other. My aims are
1. Either to boost mood
2. Or to boost physical strength(this can be quantified, you can count your push ups)
I do not see any need or reason to subscribe to your version of science.
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by acetone]
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by acetone]
The measure of a man is what he does with power.
-Plato
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blogfast25
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You're clueless, acetone. Clueless.
Go do your 'thing', just don't call it science. You don't even seem to know what an antidepressant is. Mental states can be quantified to an extent.
And push ups for physical strength... you're funny!
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by blogfast25]
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu | | Once again, you drink ethanol, you take aspirin for a headache, and then come back and tell me nothing "meaningful" was gleaned from the effects. How
exactly is one lone person taking dietary supplements out of curiosity any less a scientific undertaking than one lone person trying to find an
effective method to recrystallize that supplement to a certain level of purity? |
Neither are a scientific undertaking: the effects of aspirin on head aches is well known and has been highly quantified, including the percentage
placebo effect.
Recrystallizing supplements only teaches us something if you can prove there's been an improvement in purity. Otherwise it's a belief: 'these nice
crystals look purer'. Potentially dangerous too, if you're going to ingest something you didn't know it purity of, before OR after.
Would you suggest that lone experimenters' highly personal 'experience' with food supplements should be eligible for publication in any peer reviewed
science journal? Do you think if these 'results' were published on say 'facebook' that readers should accept it at face value?
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by blogfast25]
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unionised
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| Quote: Originally posted by acetone |
"Can you purify non food grade materials into food grade material using recrystallization alone?"
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by acetone] |
OK, that question makes sense.
the answer is "It depends."
What impurities are present?
Incidentally, it's perfectly possible that lab grade (or even commercial grade) materials are food grade.
"food grade" means that it meets a set of specifications for purity and, in particular, freedom from toxic impurities.
It doesn't tell you anything about how the stuff was made.
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numos
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | | Quote: Originally posted by numos | Acetone is asking if a substance can be purified in a home lab through recrystallization to make it edible, so...
Out of curiosity, how are commercial "food grade" chemicals made? Recrystallization right? I would imagine you would use a separate set of glassware,
in which no hazardous substances have been contained before.
|
No, he's not or at least not only. Learn to read:
"I just wanted to know the effects of a little more zinc on my body."
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by blogfast25] |
Yes, but that is his experiment, what he wants from this forum is to know if/how it is possible to recrystallize reagent grade chemical to food grade.
| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | | As regards your blind 'faith' (because that's what it is) in recrystallization, it's risible. Sure, recrystallization CAN eliminate impurities,
sometimes very effectively. But without knowing what you put in (analysis) and what you get out (more analysis!) you're driving blind. Would you
blindly consume something that previously contained a toxin just because you've recrystallized it three times? What if it co-crystallises three times,
huh? |
I did say theoretically, as in if everything worked according to theory. An analysis would be necessary, I agree. And I apologize if my post
sounded too encouraging, reading back, it does sound encouraging. I suggest that acetone try to make it, though not consume it. That way he could try
and test for purity and determine if he was successful.
| Quote: Originally posted by Zyklonb | The answer is "yes", but to what extent? Sure, you can purify it, but how will you know when it's pure enough to orally ingest?
It's too big of a gamble I think, maybe five recrystallizations would be enough, but why take the chance? |
In the science community we shouldn't ask "why?" questions, leave those to the philosophers, we should be asking "how?" questions.
Not "why would you purify it", but "how can you purify it"
| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | You're clueless, acetone. Clueless.
Go do your 'thing', just don't call it science.
[Edited on 12-6-2014 by blogfast25] |
What kind of answer are you expecting? This is an insult, and looking through your posts, you have contributed much to this forum, so I am going to
assume you're in a bad mood and won't judge based on this response. But science is:
| Quote: |
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through
observation and experiment.
-google |
If he wants to see the effects of "a" [zinc sulfate] on "b" [his body] then he is doing science.
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pichoro
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Whether it's science or not, wouldn't it simply be safer to buy a bottle of zinc vitamins rather than try to make your own from chemicals of unknown
purity and unknown contaminants, before or after attempts at purification using potentially compromised lab glassware?
I see Nature Made Zinc, 3000 mg for under $8 on amazon... Beats the hell out of the cost of an ER visit, or worse, a funeral...
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