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Fantasma4500
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Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
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Mood: dangerously practical
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Arrested for ordering a chemical
ill try to keep it short.
ordered 1kg NH4NO3 over polish site named strzaly
after the entire norway thing my countrys NSA so to call them reported that i bought 1kg NH4NO3
1:20 past midnight i got a call, got told by a cop to go outside my door and hold my hands infront of myself above my head, he assured me it was just
a talk with one police officer
guess wat
7 guys dressed in full pitch black tactical gear, 3 submachineguns, pistols, blast proof shields, a anxious dog, lasers and red dot sights
''get down on the floor''
8 hours later i was released after they had also gone through my place, deciding to confiscate my computer(s)
but... the package never arrived.. it was just an order.. i dont know if it is anywhere near ok to without any physical proof to arrest a person?!
ofcourse they are digging with eternal effort in my computer to find SOMETHING criminal appart from the mails (which are on the internet?) to prove
that i bought the kg
but even that, confiscating my computer to look for something that is not there..
i never really liked police by any means, its like they just do whatever they want because they have fully automatic guns, basically demonizing me
trying to get me thrown in jail without any reason, only suspicion and hypocritical assumptions on what that one kg could potentially be used for!
i would however like to thank the entire team for deciding to take my computers from me at the time where i have 13 satanic school projects to write
in which i will have to drop high school if i done deliver them within short time
take it all like an experience, but dont ... dont order ammonium nitrate from poland if you live in scandinavian countries
just consider tannerite, do i even need to say more?
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Zyklon-A
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Un-fucking believable! That's absolutely crazy, ammonium nitrate? What a shame, I can't believe they'd be that stupid.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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Location: Wisconsin
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Sounds like you got hit hard by the new-ish EU regulations. I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunate that they took your computers; those of course were
not hazardous and I assume they already had records of the sale. Hopefully they'll return them after finding no master plan to bomb buildings. Best of
luck to you.
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Mildronate
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wtf? in EU you can buy amoniumnitrate in garden shop
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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Location: Wisconsin
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It's cut, probably? Unless something changed I don't know about.
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GoldGuy
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Location: Toronto, ON
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Wow! They saw that you were young and wanted to show you a lesson you wont soon forget. A kg of ammonium nitrate?? There are so many peaceful uses for
that. Guess who will probably never step foot in the European Unionm after reading this thread?
O Canada, true north strong and free,
O Canada we stand on guard for thee!
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Chemosynthesis
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Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  | | Sounds like you got hit hard by the new-ish EU regulations. I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunate that they took your computers; those of course were
not hazardous and I assume they already had records of the sale. Hopefully they'll return them after finding no master plan to bomb buildings. Best of
luck to you. |
A raid not related to chemistry, but eerily similar in post-warrant-evidence-gathering methodology:
Wayne Chiang was raided after VA tech presumably due to being Asian, having just broken up with his girlfriend, and being a VA tech alumn (as the
shooter was, except a current student), and an FFL, after news reports falsely identified him as a school shooter.
The FBI raided his home, took his computers, and left his firearms. Why raid in the first place in that instance is beyond me, and the settlement
appears to vindicate my confusion. Further, why leave firearms at the house of someone you believe to be a danger, yet confiscate the computer...?
He can't discuss the circumstances, due to an out of court settlement, but I kept track of the situation as it developed.
Antiswat, you did mention confiscation of anything other than your computer. Was your computer the only item taken? I would not discuss any of your
involvement, but merely report on the police action to avoid giving any sort of self-incrimination. They should undoubtedly know who you are here and
be watching. If you were in the wrong, they need to just do their jobs and catch you legally. No reason to accidentally give them any ammunition
when you're innocent of crime or ill intent.
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phlogiston
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That is sad. It sounds like they are clueless what they should be looking for and you paid the price for that.
I do hope very much for everyones sake that they'll educate themselves in this area because it seems unlikely to me they are going to catch the real
big bad terrorist this way, rather than annoying and pestering innocent people.
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chemosynthesis | Wayne Chiang was raided after VA tech presumably due to being Asian, having just broken up with his girlfriend, and being a VA tech alumn (as the
shooter was, except a current student), and an FFL, after news reports falsely identified him as a school shooter.
The FBI raided his home, took his computers, and left his firearms. Why raid in the first place in that instance is beyond me, and the settlement
appears to vindicate my confusion. Further, why leave firearms at the house of someone you believe to be a danger, yet confiscate the computer...?
He can't discuss the circumstances, due to an out of court settlement, but I kept track of the situation as it developed. |
That's just sad. The way LE officials tend to target computers confuses the heck out of me. I can see looking for an offline manifesto or plan of
attack, but why on earth leave actual weapons in that case? I'm glad to hear he got his settlement.
The speed with which false accusations travel nowadays is pretty scary as well. I recall similar things happening after the Boston Marathon bombing.
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Bert
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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I am a bit curious as to how he's accessing the net to post this?
It's up to each of us to know our local laws, ignorance isn't a defense ANYWHERE.
AFAIK, you can buy Calcium Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer, not pure AN without questions or record keeping in EU and the USA. It's hygroscopic,
deliberately made quite difficult to refine for pure AN and nearly useless in ANFO type mixtures. Anyone who's resourceful and has had a decent
exposure to chemistry and physics could still use it for everything from low explosives to nitric acid and high explosives syntheses though.
You can buy small (less than 50 lb.) quantities of pure AN in the the USA still, at the federal level.
At the state or local government level in USA, you'd better do your own legal research- And if you draw official attention, be ready for a long and
expensive process even if you are legal & correct.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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thesmug
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The article lists fertilizers containing less than 16% nitrogen. Since ammonium nitrate is 22% nitrogen, you could buy the same amount of ammonium
nitrate with a bit of some non nitrogen-containing ingredient added .
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jock88
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read up on your stocieometery thesmug (i'll read up on me spelen)
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thesmug
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I mean molecularly, there are 5 atoms in the ammonium ion, 1 of which is nitrogen, and 4 atoms in the nitrate ion, 1 of which is also nitrogen. In
total that gives 9 atoms, 2 of which are nitrogen. 2/9 is 0.22repeating, meaning 22.22repeating% nitrogen.
[Edited on 4/13/14 by thesmug]
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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The percentage is by mass, actually. So 35% nitrogen. But yes, you could get it cut with something else.
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Zyklon-A
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You should read up on your stoichiometry jock88, and your spelen!
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thesmug
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Oh, well then nevermind! It would still be pretty easy to bypass. I guarantee you somebody's going to try exactly this.
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hyfalcon
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Ammonium sulfate works wonders for removing the calcium.
I've tried using this for some target practice and it works, just not quite as good.
[Edited on 14-4-2014 by hyfalcon]
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Bert
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I have blueberry bushes, they need a high nitrogen acidifying fertilizer. Ammonium sulfate provides both high N and a good soil acidifying effect, it
makes them THRIVE!
I've also got apples, plums, cherries, apricot, even a really winter hardy peach tree. They do quite well with a good dose of Calcium nitrate
fertilizer at regular intervals.
I never buy ammonium nitrate fertilizer, just don't need to.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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hyfalcon
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It's really hard to beat for heavy feeders like dent corn. Tobacco growers still need it also.
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Fantasma4500
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Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
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well calcium nitrate is available if you can find supplier, and yeah AN is illegal to buy where i live or posess, however i know people who have 200kg
standing around and they arent even farmers
farmers? 500 tonnes straight ammonium nitrate
even heard one of them used massive amounts of 95% H2SO4 to clean some tanks out to remove the stench from it
anyhow i got to loan a computer from my school
but ammonium nitrate.. go to croatia and you can buy 99% nitromethane for 2 euro per litre perhaps even less, and 25kg fertilizer for 10 euro, being
18kg relatively pure AN after simply filtering off CaCO3 etc
but yes.. indeed.. its all so messed up these days.. however the anti terror .. 'watchers'? took some rather interesting picture however.. ebay.co.uk
-- commented on something with pyro grade aluminium, they were sure i bought it, never did.. i just commented as a reply to some nutcase who implied
that aluminium itself is an explosive and was referring to 9/11 and beyond
not to mention they still dont know where my hat is
they are today desperate to get people thrown in jails, and if they fail to do so they get angry and sad, even on television shows where you follow
the cops around when they find some guy and they cant arrest him.. guess what
sad music starts playing, violins and all that, then abit of zooming in on the sad officers face and his explanations on why he wasnt able to arrest
this random guy
actually potassium nitrate can be bought legally
combine that with super cheap 'tower acid' 50% H2SO4 bought by the kg for acidifying pools and a ultra simple destillation setup plus cheap and pure
25% NH4OH and you got plenty of NH4NO3
anyhow -- the reason for buying AN i have plenty of reason for.. i collect stuff and in chemistry there are so many pretty things to collect, and so
many useful chemicals to stock up on, ammonia being one of the most useful and with most interesting properties in the inorganic section -- if you ask
me
they will go through my entire HDD although they have no reason to do so at all, its all online, there is nothing about orders on my HDD ''fishing''
my lawyer called it
even tho they have nothing to put me up on they can still apparently take all my stuff until i have been proven to be innocent although in this
country it is per law 'doubt comes handy for the suspect'
in other words .. done ever come to denmark, possibly the least chemist friendly country of all, perhaps topped or sided by germany where people have
been raided for ordering copper sulfate
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Praxichys
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Well... It probably doesn't help that your name is "Antiswat" and that you post most often in the EM subforum. Hopefully that had nothing to do with
the raid.
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GoldGuy
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Location: Toronto, ON
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Well if his password to get logged into this site is also something that could be considered potentially threatening it wouldn't help. You have to be
very smart these days. They look at usernames and passwords when profiling.
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Fantasma4500
International Hazard
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Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
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ahah.. the name is not something i came up with after i got interest in chemistry
probably +12 years since i first used that
asides.. if i was to use compounds and salts for such purposes i wouldnt have copper carbonate and lithium salts laying around.. that kind usually
only buys exactly what would be needed and nothing else.. think i have more different chemicals than my school does by now
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woelen
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This indeed may help you in your case. Years ago I read about a similar case of someone in the USA who was raided, because he had ordered chemicals
which can be used for making drugs (IIRC he ordered I2 and some organic solvents). When they came to his house they found quite a few other chemicals,
well-labeled, nothing drug-related in a clean environment and then they were convinced that this is a science type of person and no cook. Maybe the
same is true for you.
I, however, would never order something from a shop like Strzaly, see this thread:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=25034#...
I actually am surprised to see that it is not yet taken down. The site also has changed a little since last summer, I remember that at that time it
had anarchy signs and texts like "terrorist's needs" on the web page. It was looking extremely kewlish or even plain wrong!
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popi
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wow!
Thanks for the post .I am in Canada and we are pretty liberal here with our laws.But a few years ago I went to a Rona or Home Depo and asked for a
little of A N,and was shocked when they nearly phoned the man on me and asked what for.I said I grow crops as a farmer ,ya know corn,soya bean ,pot
etc..I split quit and have never mentioned that name again.It's used alot here as shake n bake...They freaked at not a kilo but just a couple hundred
grams!
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