Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
Magnesium acetate?
I have this compound and I am not sure what it is. This is what happened.
I was testing acetic anhydride to see if it would react with Mg, so I place some in a testube and added a piece of clean Mg ribbon. Nothing happend,
but I decided to leave it on the testube holder. After almost a month of resting there the experiment looked exactly the same as it did when I started
the experiment. Another month passed where I completely forgot about the experiment. Today I was cheningn up my lab and I found the testube again, but
this time with these bright white crystals growing from it.
The testube was well sealed with a rubber stopper and was never opened, but what I am guessing is that some moisture got into the testube and caused
the Acetic anhydride to change into acetic acid. This reacted with the magneisum to form mg acetate, but because Mg acetate is insoluble in acetic
anhydride, it imeaditly crystallized on the ribbon?
Could this be an explanation for the formation of these crystals which could be Mg acetate?
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
deltaH
Dangerous source of unreferenced speculation
Posts: 1663
Registered: 30-9-2013
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline
Mood: Heavily protonated
|
|
Beware if the magnesium was oxidised, there may be a buildup of hydrogen pressure that may still be ongoing!
Nevertheless, an interesting result. I would certainly keep the product anhydrous if you intend to characterise/investigate the product just in case
it is not magnesium acetate (after all you stated that it was well sealed).
I look forward to hearing more about this.
|
|
|
Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
I think I am going to try repeating this experiment but with adding a drop of water to it to see if I get a similar result.
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Steam  | | I think I am going to try repeating this experiment but with adding a drop of water to it to see if I get a similar result. |
Before anything else you should investigate these crystals. Do they contain magnesium for instance...
[Edited on 31-3-2014 by blogfast25]
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I would suspect a basic magnesium acetate hydrate. Note, per Wiki on Mg acetate, to quote:
"Reacting metallic magnesium with acetic acid dissolved in dry nitrogen benzene causes magnesium acetate to form along with the release a gas,
presumably hydrogen.[9]
Mg +2CH3COOH → Mg(CH3COO)2 + H2 "
implying to me that the normal acetate salt does not form in aqueous solutions with Mg. Probably due to the hydrolysis of the magnesium acetate
introducing Mg(OH)2 which could combine with the magnesium acetate to form the insoluble basic Mg acetate salt.
[Edited on 31-3-2014 by AJKOER]
|
|
|
Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
What would be a good way to tell if they had any Mg in them?
Don't have a mass spectrometer at the moment...
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
nezza
Hazard to Others
Posts: 324
Registered: 17-4-2011
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: phosphorescent
|
|
The classic test for magnesium is magneson or magnesonII dye. These are azo dyes which are a purplish colour normally. In alkaline solution Mg++ ions
bind to the dyes and it goes blue as an attractive precipitate if there is enough Mg++ present or a blue colouration if not. The dyes can be
synthesised easily enough if you have the starting materials, para nitroaniline and resorcinol or alpha naphthol.
|
|
|
Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER | I would suspect a basic magnesium acetate hydrate. Note, per Wiki on Mg acetate, to quote:
"Reacting metallic magnesium with acetic acid dissolved in dry nitrogen benzene causes magnesium acetate to form along with the release a gas,
presumably hydrogen.[9]
Mg +2CH3COOH → Mg(CH3COO)2 + H2 "
implying to me that the normal acetate salt does not form in aqueous solutions. Probably due to the hydrolysis of the magnesium acetate introducing
Mg(OH)2 which could combine with the magnesium acetate to form the insoluble basic Mg acetate salt.
[Edited on 31-3-2014 by AJKOER] |
So you mean Mg acetate but instead of it forming its hydrate with H2O it forms a complex with OH- ions?
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4298
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Online
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Test the crystals to see if they dissolve in water, or dilute acetic acid. If they do, then test to see if they give a precipitate with sodium
hydroxide.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
deltaH
Dangerous source of unreferenced speculation
Posts: 1663
Registered: 30-9-2013
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline
Mood: Heavily protonated
|
|
I'm curious if your test tube released gas when you unstoppered it?
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Steam |
So you mean Mg acetate but instead of it forming its hydrate with H2O it forms a complex with OH- ions?
|
A source for my speculation http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=basic%20magne... . To quote from page 2 and the bottom of page 4:
"Product insolubles were undesirably high at approximately 5%, due to precipitation of basic acetates (or other basic products) formed during
hydrolysis"
and:
....independently confirmed as the stubborn affinity of magnesium acetate for water. In fact, without excess acid present, damp magnesium acetate was
shown to hydrolyze significantly during drying."
Some related basic magnesium salts include, for example, dibasic magnesium hychlorite, Mg(ClO)2.2Mg(OH)2, and various forms of the basic carbonate
such as artinite (MgCO3·Mg(OH)2·3H2O), hydromagnesite (4MgCO3·Mg(OH)2·4H2O), and dypingite (4MgCO3· Mg(OH)2·5H2O).
[Edited on 31-3-2014 by AJKOER]
|
|
|
Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
Have not unstopered it yet. I am waiting till the weakend when I have time. If there is gas that would indicate acetic acid reacting with Mg. Right?
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
Steam
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: Triple Point
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER | | Quote: Originally posted by Steam |
So you mean Mg acetate but instead of it forming its hydrate with H2O it forms a complex with OH- ions?
|
A source for my speculation http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=basic%20magne... . To quote from page 2 and the bottom of page 4:
"Product insolubles were undesirably high at approximately 5%, due to precipitation of basic acetates (or other basic products) formed during
hydrolysis"
and:
....independently confirmed as the stubborn affinity of magnesium acetate for water. In fact, without excess acid present, damp magnesium acetate was
shown to hydrolyze significantly during drying."
Some related basic magnesium salts include, for example, dibasic magnesium hychlorite, Mg(ClO)2.2Mg(OH)2, and various forms of the basic carbonate
such as artinite (MgCO3·Mg(OH)2·3H2O), hydromagnesite (4MgCO3·Mg(OH)2·4H2O), and dypingite (4MgCO3· Mg(OH)2·5H2O).
[Edited on 31-3-2014 by AJKOER] |
Do you think it would be similar or dibasic magnesium hychlorite (Mg(Ac)2-2Mg(OH)2)
DISCLAIMER: The information in this post is provided for general informational purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction.
No information contained in this post should be construed as legal advice from the individual author, nor is it intended to be a substitute for legal
counsel on any subject matter. No reader of this post should act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in, or accessible
through, this post without seeking the appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer
licensed in the recipient’s state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If it is hydrogen gas that would be evidence that an acid has reacted with the magnesium. But right now we don't eve know there is gas and if
there is, which one it is.
[Edited on 1-4-2014 by blogfast25]
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Steam:
Yes, my speculation is a basic magnesium acetate hydrate. However, the precise composition of the double salt could vary depending on reaction
conditions. My speculation would be in general Mg(Ac)2.xMg(OH)2.yH2O.
You may be able to determine 'y' by carefully applying mild heat to the salt and noting the change in weight.
To determine 'x' perhaps take two equal volumes of acetic acid. To the first sample of acetic acid, add and record the amount NaHCO3 needed to
neutralize. To the second sample, dissolve a known weight of your unknown salt by heating and let stand. Then repeat the neutralization experiment of
the first sample. The idea is that any observed reduction in the amount of required NaHCO3 could be due to the presence of Mg(OH)2 in the unknown
salt.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
