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Upsilon
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Getting lead metal from fishing weights
I want to start using lead compounds in my experiments, but lead compounds are just a bit expensive for me. I know that some fishing weights contain
lead metal, but that's where my knowledge ends. I live in Florida in the U.S, so as far as I know, there's no ban on selling lead fishing weights
here. Does anyone have a better understanding on what these weights are made of, whether it's pure lead or an alloy? If it's an alloy, how would I go
about separating it out? Could I just dissolve the weights in HCl and filter out the PbCl2 precipitate?
[Edited on 24-3-2014 by Upsilon]
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Texium
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If you have nitric acid it would probably be better to dissolve them with that, and then precipitate the PbCl2 with NaCl. HCl should work too, but
would be considerably slower.
Also, if you can't find lead sinkers, lead shotgun shells work too. It shouldn't be too difficult to find either of those in Florida. (:
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Upsilon
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Quote: Originally posted by zts16  | If you have nitric acid it would probably be better to dissolve them with that, and then precipitate the PbCl2 with NaCl. HCl should work too, but
would be considerably slower.
Also, if you can't find lead sinkers, lead shotgun shells work too. It shouldn't be too difficult to find either of those in Florida. (:
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Thanks for the advice. As far as the composition of the weights goes, do you have a rough idea of what else is in them? Is this cost-effective
compared to buying PbO2 directly? (1/4 pound is going for around $8 on eBay, whereas I can get a 1/2 pound lead sinker for $5 locally)
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Töilet Plünger
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There's a much better way to get (impure) lead. Many cars drop trim weights off their tires, and they can be found in parking lots and sidewalks.
Unfortunately it's really the luck of the draw as to whether you find weights.
I'm wondering if leaving lead in HCl will cause them to passivate. My dad casts fishing weights from trim weights and I'm working on ways to make them
corrosion resistant.
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violet sin
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or you could cut out the guessing, and go to an auto shop that does tires... they pull off the old ones almost every time they balance tires.
buckets of old ones sittn there. some are zinc, some steel, and some lead w/ antimony to stiffen it. keep the heat low enough to melt just the lead
ones and fish the others out. you could probably find a great deal of info about using/finding lead, and which alloys are used, from shooting forums.
many cast their own bullets, at least the muzzle loaders do. hope it helps.
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Tsjerk
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Wouldn't separation by density be easier? With a bit of practice you could probably already guess which ones are lead and which are not just by
holding them.
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hyfalcon
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Tire shop is a good suggestion. If you want pure lead, ask for the stick on wheel weights. The ones that are made of lead are pure lead. The hammer
on clip type are an alloy of lead, antimony, and tin of differing amounts. Of course, a lot of places are going to zinc or even steel weights now.
So you need to know some melting points. On melting, the clip-on wheel weights form a eutectic alloy with a melting point that varies depending on
the amounts of which alloys are in the mix. Clip-ons' melting points usually are around 435F plus or minus 10-15F depending on the alloy. Pure lead
melts at 620F on my casting thermometer.
[Edited on 24-3-2014 by hyfalcon]
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violet sin
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the mention of separation by melting was something I saw on one of the shooting forums. the guy was melting them in a cast iron pan over flame and
using pliers to pull out the ones not melting. low tech but almost any one can do it. of course in person you can rule out the steel ones almost
immediately, when scratched with a metal object it is pretty darn clear which is which. zinc I'm sure you could get use to spotting those too, but I
was hoping to spend far less time getting acquainted with the intricacies of scavenging tire weights. lead doesn't have too great of a recycle value,
just checked ~0.55$/lb for lead weight, so a couple bucks could go a long way. if your only grabbing a little they might let you grab them out while
doing a quick spot check.
I have held on to a nice coil of soft lead pipe found at a flea-market. ~40 lb's/20$. I'm good
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The Volatile Chemist
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I had some old fishing weights once, cut them up, and a few turned out to be lead in almost pure form. If one doesn't have any of the more common
acids (Yea... heh...) you can mix high concentration H2O2 (30%) and vinegar. This gives a white-ish powder. As far as I know,
it's lead hydroxide (insol.) and there's a possibility of lead acetate in solution (small amounts, sol.).
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Zyklon-A
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I once heard (although I can't remember where) that some lead weights are now made out of tungsten. I get my lead from lead pellets, from my old
pellet gun.
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WGTR
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Balls for muzzle loading are pure, soft, lead, as far as I know. They have to be soft in order to work, hence the pure lead.
Not every firearm store carries them, but generally there are at least one or two in every large city. I bought a pound of 50
caliber lead balls for about $15 from the store down the street.
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Refinery
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I can obtain pure lead at 1eur per kg rate from my local junkyard. See your local junkies, they could have very nice surprises lying around. If you
dont find that, you can buy fishing weights, tire weights, of diving weights. Also gunshot pellets and other ballasts tend to be lead. If you live in
america, I'm pretty sure you can find something around quickly.
I purified my bulk lead which I bought from the junkie. Just dump the lead into steel pot(SS preferred) and heat it with gas burner until it begins to
melt. Moisture will evaporate off quickly before melting occurs, but beware to add any moist lead into already molten batch, it may splatter. Oxides
and impurities and other metals tend to float on top, where you can scoop them off with spoon or any metal tool, I used thin steel plate. When it's
all pure, find a shallow pan, like oven pan which is cleaned well, and pour the molten lead carefully onto it so it will form a sheet with thickness
from few mm to max 5-6mm, because it's very difficult to cut it, the thinner you make it, the easier it is to cut, 1mm lead can be cut with scissors
and any thicker you will need steel plate cutters.
Its advisable to use respirator when melting lead, because it is quite toxic and it surely releases some fumes. It's not mandatory, but I used a full
face resp just in case.
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Texium
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Wow, I didn't realize it was so cheap. I need to go find some lead!
Currently I just have the contents of a couple shotgun shells, as an element sample, not enough to experiment with.
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MrHomeScientist
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In most applications, including fishing weights, lead is alloyed with antimony to increase its hardness. I looked into separating the two a while
back. If I remember right, placing the alloy in nitric acid causes the lead to dissolve as soluble lead nitrate and the antimony to precipitate as
various oxides.
In addition to tungsten, bismuth is also finding use as a lead substitute in bullets and fishing weights. I looked for some once and found some
"green" fishing weights, but they were very expensive and I couldn't readily tell which metal they were. I bought a 1 pound ingot of lead on eBay for
my element sample.
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Upsilon
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Actually, it seems even less expensive just to order lead ingots directly. It looks like you can get 10 pounds of relatively pure lead metal for $20
on eBay.
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Zyklon-A
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Hmmm, I'm going to look for some bismuth fishing weights.
Thanks for the idea.
| Quote: Originally posted by Upsilon | | Actually, it seems even less expensive just to order lead ingots directly. It looks like you can get 10 pounds of relatively pure lead metal for $20
on eBay. |
Well yes, of course, it's always cheaper to buy bulk and buy the pure substance, not some application where the substance is employed. You didn't need
one of these to see that coming!
[Edited on 24-3-2014 by Zyklonb]
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Magpie
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It gets even better: my Walmart sells tin fishing weights.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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bobm4360
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And newer wheel weights are zinc
Regards,
Bob
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blogfast25
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Alloyed (hardness) lead is often harder to dissolve in nitric than pure lead.
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hyfalcon
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I've got some linotype lead that is so hard it rings like a bell when you rap it with a knuckle.
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Bert
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Lead alloys used for the "clip on" wheel weights usually has 2-3 % Antimony added to increase hardness, .5-1% or so Tin added to reduce the alloy's
surface tension for better moulding, and a small fraction of a % Arsenic to speed up ageing to final hardness.
If you can find "stick on" wheel weights, the kind put on with a material like double sided tape, they are nearly pure Lead. If you can find a dentist
or doctor's office/hospital X-ray room being remodeled, the sheet Lead in the walls is nearly pure Lead as well. Muzzle loader bullet Lead is USUALLY
nearly pure.
Lead acid storage battery plates have Arsenic, as well as Strontium and/or Calcium compounds added, not such a good starting material.
As a rule of "thumbnail", if a piece of Lead goes THUD instead of CLINK when dropped on concrete, try scratching it with your fingernails. If you can
dig into it with your nails, it's close enough to pure for most purposes.
Pure Lead can be converted with a hot mixture of vinegar (5% acetic acid) & OTC 3% Hydrogen peroxide to Lead acetate, then the resulting solution
can be filtered and dried. Use an excess of the acetic acid-
Adding Sulfuric acid to the Lead acetate solution will precipitate Lead sulfate.
For more conversions, check the Lead Salts Preparation Thread!
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
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2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert | If you can find "stick on" wheel weights, the kind put on with a material like double sided tape, they are nearly pure Lead.
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I agree with most of what you write here but don't see why balancing weights for wheels should be any purer than most OTC lead. Explain?
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hyfalcon
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I don't know why they use it on the stick-on's, but if it's lead then it's pure lead. More mailable I would imagine.
Here in the US anyway.
[Edited on 27-3-2014 by hyfalcon]
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ElizabethGreene
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Hello.
First hand knowledge, I know of several sources.
1. Most Sporting Goods stores sell shotgun shells. The ones you want will say "lead shot". These can be carefully disassembled to remove the lead
shot by prying open the crimped plastic end. This can be done safely if you take your time, are careful not to strike the primer, and for your sake
please don't smoke.
2. Larger Sporting Goods stores have two other sources of lead.
-In the muzzleloading section you can generally find lead bullets. These are almost pure lead as the .50 caliber muzzleloaders depend on the soft
metal to deform for effective sealing. These are a gray color, NOT the shiny copper jacketed ones that include the green plastic sabot sleeves.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Black-Powder/Sabots-...
-In the reloading section you can often find 25 lb. bags of lead shot used for reloading shotshells.
http://www.basspro.com/Lawrence-Chilled-Lead-Shot/product/12...
3. A scuba diving shop will sell dive weights fairly cheaply. Ask if you can poke through their old rental ones. The older ones have a high lead
content. Try to get the softest (most dented) ones.
4. I'm able to purchase used/core Car Batteries locally for $10. These are a PITA to disassemble, but contain significant amounts of (nasty dirty)
lead plate. The yield/purity of the lead is directly proportional to the level of charge in the battery, so charge them. Drill holes in the bottom
of the cells to drain the acid out, and then carefully cut the battery apart at the ultrasonic weld seams.
Candidly I can't recommend option 4. You have to wait forever for the undrained pockets of electrolyte to dry out. If you don't, then you have
sulfuric acid splashing around when you cut the battery open. Wear eye, face, clothing, and hand protection, have a sodium bicarbonate/water solution
available to enutralize it when (not if) you get some on you. When you're done you have a pile of hazmat plastic and a mixture of lead, lead oxide,
and lead sulfate. It possible to re-smelt the lead compounds with carbon as a reducing agent http://www.essentialchemicalindustry.org/metals/lead.html but please do so only at small scale as it isn't the most environmentally friendly
process (SOx compounds released to the atmosphere, Pb and C left in the slag). This is a good "prove I can do it for the zombie apocolypse" project.
5. I have ordered from http://www.rotometals.com in the past. This is the easiest and cheapest source for me.
Second Hand Knowledge
6. A boat scrapyard will have significant amounts of lead from keel weights.
7. Radiological pharmacies (in hospitals) use lead carriers for radiosotopes. If you know the right person, these can be purchased or acquired as
scrap.
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MrHomeScientist
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I'll second the rotometals suggestion. I've bought Bismuth from them before (from their eBay page, not directly from the website) and the quality is
good and price is low. I'm going to look into getting a ladle and skimmer from them too.
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