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Author: Subject: May I have been exposed by Ricin?
Xanax
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[*] posted on 28-11-2004 at 04:47
May I have been exposed by Ricin?


Two times, I have tried to extract the poison from the beans of Ricinus Communis & Abrus Precatorius, Ricin & Abrin and both times I have been very ill, the days afterwards.

First time was the worst. I had no protection or something like that, and I did it in my kitchen. The day after I got pain in the whole body, diarrhea, stomach pain and more. I was ill in several days.

The second time, also the day after the extraction, I was really scared when I had diarrhea and I dicovered that it ran out a lot of blood when I was on the toilet.

The symptoms disappered after a few days, but I wonder if it is enougt, to be exposed by very small doses (not noticeble quantitys)?

Yes, I know that I'm stupid when I do this experiments. But now I've thrown away all my castor beans & jequerity beans.

I was drunk both times when I did the extraction :), chemicals are not good to be keept to store in my house when I'm drunk. Once I mixed Nitric acid with Glycerine, when I waked up the morning after there stood a glass of Nitroglycerine....:o
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[*] posted on 28-11-2004 at 08:17


By virtue of extracting the Ricin you were exposed to it. It is very plausible regarding your symptoms and the fact you know you were exposed to it, that you may have uptaken a large enough concentration to do some damage. I believe Ricin can have a latent period of some time (at least a month) so you might be in trouble there. To illustrate the toxicity of this compound here is a quote from "Hawley's Condensed Chemical Dictionary":

Quote:
Very highly toxic by ingestion; small particle in cut or abrasion, eye or nose may prove fatal.


So if you managed to escape without permeant damage then it is definitely a good thing you tossed your castor beans. There is another major symptom of poisoning by Ricin which you didn't mention however, that of vomiting, I believe this is common in most cases and it seems odd it would be absent.




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[*] posted on 28-11-2004 at 09:19


<b>Go see a doctor!</b> Seriously.



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[*] posted on 28-11-2004 at 09:59


I always thought to get ricin from those beans needs more than a simple extraction? But already in unaltered state the beans contain some nasty stuff, nothing deadly though. The oil was actually used in the olde days to get somebody on the shitter, so the symptoms are correct.

But please nobody post the correct process to get rizin now! It probably is exactly what somebody tries to fish from the depths here.


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PS: If you die Xanax, make sure somebody applies for an Darwin Award for you. Perfect usename too, congrats.




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[*] posted on 28-11-2004 at 11:09


This seems to be a perfect example of how potentially deadly our hobby can be even when you know the hazards of what you are experimenting with.

I must agree about the Darwin Award. Getting sick once is one thing - but twice?

Castor oil from the castor beans was a very common laxative during the early part of the 1900's. Then I learned about ricin from the Bulgarian murder of a diplomat in London and they said it came from the same beans. This seems extraordinary to me that this common laxative didn't kill many people. I'm sure the knowledge level and quality assurance was not that great in those days. I still see castor oil for sale at my local pharmacy. You'll never catch me drinking that stuff. :o




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[*] posted on 28-11-2004 at 14:57


The beans are highly toxic by themselves. Slightly greater "density of toxicity" can be achieved by defatting the bean material with solvents. This defatted bean material is, I believe, what people who are reported in the media as having "made ricin" usually have. Extracting the pure and intact toxic proteins from the bulk of the bean requires significantly more sophistication. I know JACS has a lab-scale preparation that would be accessible to the well equipped home experimenter, and there's a patent registered to (IIRC) the US Army that shows how to do it on an industrial scale.

As far as I know, ricin is very difficult to effectively deliver on a large scale, so it never became adapted to battlefield use, though it is famous for use in a couple of assassinations. Reports of "suspected terrorists found with ricin" are little more worrisome than "suspected terrorists found with rifle ammunition." It's circumstantial evidence of evil intent, but really no more destructive than guns or petroleum distillates. If Xanax's reports are to be believed, it also threatens the health of the manufacturer far more than mundane weapons like firearms.




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[*] posted on 28-11-2004 at 17:05
Darwin Award Indeed


From http://waynesword.palomar.edu/lmexer1a.htm

"Ricin from the castor bean (Ricinus communis) is a potent cytotoxic protein that is lethal to eukaryotic cells by inactivating the organelle sites of protein synthesis called ribosomes. Just one single ricin molecule that enters the cytosol of a cell (the semifluid medium between the nucleus and plasma membrane) can inactivate over 1,500 ribosomes per minute and kill the cell. One of the two protein subunits of ricin (RTA) is a deadly enzyme that removes purines (such as adenine) from ribosomal RNA, thus altering its molecular structure and function."

Of course, all the 'suspected terrorist' stuff is pure bull. Of the 600-or-so people detained under the odious Mr Blunkett's terrorism legislation, all but around a dozen have been released without charge. Most of those charged are Irish terrorists, there's a Sikh 'terrorist' and a Tunisian. None of them are Al Qaeda. In fact, Al Qaeda is a myth - the name was fabricated by the US.




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[*] posted on 28-11-2004 at 23:07


The links below could be useful

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/abrin/index.asp

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/ricin/index.asp


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[*] posted on 29-11-2004 at 12:02


Abrin is EXTREMELY toxic, as you probably know, three to four times more lethal than ricin, that stuff is right up there with anatoxin-A, and palytoxin in terms of lethality.

You really shouldn't fuck around with toxalbumens at all, you are likely to kill yourself, theres no good "home" use of either plant IMHO, save for castor oil, although there are doubtless more pleasant ways of making you take a shit.

If I were you I would stay well away, ricin is bad, and abrin is a fuckton worse, I am surprised it didn't kill you:(




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[*] posted on 12-12-2004 at 13:04


Xanax: Post here if you are alive.:(



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[*] posted on 12-12-2004 at 15:34


Now there's a crazy mofo ;) . Also a very lucky one. From what I understand though, if you survive the 3-4 days after Ricin poisoning and your symptoms go away, you can be expected to live. Still, I strongly strongly strongly suggest you visit a doctor and get checked out! Tell them you got drunk and mistook your castorbeans for your sleeping pills or something.



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[*] posted on 13-12-2004 at 09:19


Quote:
Originally posted by rogue chemist
Xanax: Post here if you are alive.:(



Message posted on 28-11-2004 at 12:47 PM
Last active: 29-11-2004 at 08:04 PM

Yes Xanax would be nice to hear from you, or from your relatives.
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sad.gif posted on 18-12-2004 at 07:26


I think we lost a member. I U2U'd Xanax on 12-13-04, and it hasn't even been read yet.:(



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[*] posted on 18-12-2004 at 07:45


Maybe we should email him, incase he doesnt check the board anymore?

Edit: I just sent him an email

[Edited on 18-12-2004 by Saerynide]




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[*] posted on 18-12-2004 at 09:13


Hope he checks his email.:(
Here's a dollar for a casket fund.:(
Edit: I just sent him an email too.


[Edited on 12-18-04 by HNO3]




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[*] posted on 18-12-2004 at 16:05
I think he's dead.


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His first post was from 1-1-2004, his second was the one at the top of this topic. He obviously isn't a frequent poster.

But as mentioned earlier he was likely to have been subjected to either ricin or abrin. Considering the extremely lethal nature of both substances (and and especially the second one) and the period of time that passed since his intoxication his death is a very real possibility.

Just goes to show you should always steer clear of this kind of chemistry. Anything that can only kill should be avoided. (explosives rarely kill smart chemists.)

I feel sorry for his family. Not because he's probably dead (that's his own stupid fault) but rather because they too may have been exposed to his "experiments".




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[*] posted on 18-12-2004 at 16:45


Chemistry is dangerous, that's all there is to it. Xanax was lax in his treatment of this hazardous chemical, I don't think he's dead though, like some people's speculation on Flayer's demise from the phosphorus thread. Although Flayer still appears to be active to this day despite not posting in over a year. Xanax probably just pops in whenever he has something interesting, not really interested in the day to day activity here. There is a chance we may well never know what became of him, then again he could be looking over this post without logging in and laughing his rear end off.

[Edited on 12/19/2004 by BromicAcid]




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[*] posted on 18-12-2004 at 19:55


Then again, if we did lose a member, it might not be all bad. Check out his 2 posts. After reading them I am :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:, and I think it might be a good thing to lose a terrorist/k3wl.



\"In the beginning, God...\" Wait a minute, God doesn\'t exist!!!!!!!!!! \"OK, in the beginning, ummm, hydrogen...\" Wait a minute, what about the laws of thermodynamics? \"OK, in the beginning, ummm.....UMMMMM, what\'s left to choose from?
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[*] posted on 19-12-2004 at 07:20


OMG, after reading this thread, it's like a movie or a in-depth story to me. About how ones inability to be responsible and caring with such dangerous materials has been the ending cause of their life. Even though HNO3 is right, i still kinda hope he is alive. I feel quite happy adnd somewhat assured by the way that Saerynide and HNO3 sent emails to see if he is OK. I think this thread should be 'laminated', as it contains a very valuable lesson, the moral of the story, don't f*** around with dangerous chemicals unless you know what you are doing, and can be safe and responsible in your experiments.

Best of luck to Xanax.
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[*] posted on 21-12-2004 at 12:35


OK, he's alive. "Hello!

Yes, I'm alive
I have throw'n away that shit now :-)

Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:18:25 +0000
To: xanax@dcemail.com
Subject: Ricin

Are you still alive? You vanished after posting on Science Madness about the
extraction of ricin." The original email and the reply. But Xanax, please try not to kill yourself!:P




\"In the beginning, God...\" Wait a minute, God doesn\'t exist!!!!!!!!!! \"OK, in the beginning, ummm, hydrogen...\" Wait a minute, what about the laws of thermodynamics? \"OK, in the beginning, ummm.....UMMMMM, what\'s left to choose from?
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[*] posted on 22-12-2004 at 04:23


Thats good to hear :D

I didnt get a reply from him though... Im so insulted *sniff*

just kidding :P




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[*] posted on 22-12-2004 at 04:49


Yay, he's alive :P

Good that he threw away the ricin/abrin, for the better :)
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[*] posted on 17-1-2005 at 13:44


Hahahaha where exactly did he throw it?



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[*] posted on 18-1-2005 at 01:09


Maybe he burned it. I don't know of any proteins save those from hot-spring microbes that can be seared pretty and still remain active.

At least, that's what I think...
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[*] posted on 18-1-2005 at 07:14


Quote:
Originally posted by Darkfire
Hahahaha where exactly did he throw it?


In a populated childrens' playground? :P




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