franklyn
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Hgh Hydrogen content explosive compounds
Some introduction
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14005#...
A given volume of Gasoline contains more Hydrogen than an equal volume of Liquid Hydrogen. It follows that the contribution to the density of a
compound by Hydrogen is very low. A lot of it can be bound in a given space. The resulting molar gas volume is the equal of the molar gas volume of
other atoms. A compound containing a large quantity of unreacting Hydrogen upon exploding will produce a large volume of gas product.
The premise is to have negative oxygen balance yielding explosion products comprised of only CO , N2 , H2
Proton - base type adducts of Ethylenenitramine or Methylnitramine with amines as Ethylenediamine or Methylamine seem promising.
Ethylenedinitramine + Ethylenediamine
. . . C2H4(NHNO2)2 • C2H4(NH2)2 => 4 CO +
3 N2 + 7 H2 . . 6.67 % H2 by weight
Ethylenedinitramine + Methylamine
. . . C2H4(NHNO2)2 • 2 CH3NH2 . . => 4 CO
+ 3 N2 + 8 H2 . . . 7.5 % H2 by weight
Ethylenediamine + Methylnitramine
. . . C2H4(NH2)2 • CH3NHNO2 . . . .=> 4
CO + 3 N2 + 8 H2 . . . 7.5 % H2 by weight
Methylamine + Methylnitramine
. 2 ( CH3NH2 • CH3NHNO2 ) . . . . . => 4 CO + 3 N2 + 9 H2 . . . 8.4 % H2 by weight & 56 % of total gas volume
The gas product tself is around 80 % combustible and will additionally burn with air enhancing blast to some extent.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Many of the old links does not work any more  Any ways what are their detonation
velocities ?
In your reactions, carbon burned with oxygen prior to hydrogen, however if carbon monoxide is produced over H2O, why do I get unburned carbon, char,
from my rocket fuel when I decrease my oxidizer content ?
Also another similar experiment on TKX50 paper dany posted
http://www.chtf.stuba.sk/~szolcsanyi/education/files/Chemia%...
In the detonation experiment, the pictures shows clear sign of unburned carbon, the black char around it. TKX50 is not very oxygen negative, enough
oxygen for all the carbon, but I think the hydrogen steals it from the carbon ?
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Praxichys
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Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_gas_shift
At high temperatures and pressures, this is the thermodynamically favored reaction, but only with catalysis:
CO + H2O --> CO2 + H2
Incomplete combusion always favors water over oxidized products of carbon. When sugar is heated to decomposition temperatures (for example) water is
driven off leaving carbon, not CO2 and hydrogen.
http://www.ausetute.com.au/combusta.html
I am unsure if this rule applies to energetic materials, but it makes sense from a thermodynamic standpoint. I do know that NOx is produced
in some nitrate ester explosions, but I do not understand why. Perhaps it has something to do with the initial bonds in the material, and that the N
is already bound to O and it is thermodynamically favorable to remain that way during the reaction.
In that case, products of decomposition would have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
On a side note, lithium perchlorate contains more oxygen by density than liquid oxygen. Mixed with gasoline, the two should have a combined energy
potential higher than that of liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen mixture! I wonder if a good liquid/liquid rocket fuel would be lithium perchlorate
solution and some hydrocarbon fuel?
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Dany
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@Praxichys
When explosives has a positive oxygen balance, the NOx can be formed due to excess of oxygen that can react with nitrogen in the detonation
products. this reaction is possible because of the high temperature/pressure encountered in the detonation zone and down the adiabat. it is accepted
that the equilibrium composition or the so called "frozen composition" is reached at temperature of 1800°C in the detonation product of condensed
explosives. Another example is a nuclear explosion. the very powerful shock wave emitted from a nuclear detonation compresses and heat the air to high
pressure and temperature. the nitrogen and oxygen which form the quasi total volume of air dissociate under these condition. when these products
cools, they will recombine and one of the product is the NOx. The red color of the mushroom of an nuclear blast is a proove of the presence
of NO2.
Yes, it is true that oxygen negative explosive tend to form carbon in their detonation products. This was a major question in the detonation science.
Charles MADER in his book numerical modeling of explosive and propellant, answered this question. The phase of the carbon formed (graphite or diamond)
depend on the initial density of the explosive. For example TNT give graphite in the detonation products up to d= 1.55 g/cm3. above this
density the carbon formed is diamond. The carbon phase change from graphite to diamond is clearly visible on the detonation velocity vs density plot.
@ 1.55 g/cm3 a change in the slop of D(ρ ) is visible. the increase of detonation velocity with density above 1.55 g/cm3 is
slower (but always linear) than the increase of Dcj under 1.55 g/cm3. See the book of Charles MADER for more information. MADER
is one of the most important U.S scientist that worked on explosive detonation and equation of state (EOS), in fact he creat the thermochemical code
called FORTRAN BKW which of course is based on Becker-Kistiakowsky-Wilson EOS. BKW is known to be the most calibrated EOS in use today. MADER was a
great man in the LOS ALAMOS NATIONAL LABORATORY.
Dany.
[Edited on 25-11-2013 by Dany]
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Dany
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@franklyn
there is a problem with this theory. Because you can't be sure that during detonation the hydrogen rich compound will certainly decompose to hydrogen
that will combust in a later time. Adding to much of the hydrogen rich compound (which is an inert material e.g., methylamine, ethylene diamine...)
will dilute much the explosive hence decreasing the detonation performance like Dcj, Pcj, Tcj and of course Q(heat of
detonation). Yes the combustion of detonation product with ambient air is well known and is called the afterburning. generally, negative oxygen
balance explosives (e.g., TNT) which yield high concentration of carbon in there detonation products will in certain case be able to burn the excess
carbon with ambient air. Of course aluminium or other reactive metals are also attractive as fuel for afterburning phenomena. Old study demonstrate
that adding aluminium to explosives like TNT is beneficial up to 20% by mass (e.g., TRITONAL 80/20 TNT/Al). increasing the content of Al beyond this
limit has no apparent effect on the blast wave parameters. However, special blends for thermobaric explosives can contain reactive metals more than
50% by mass but these are special cases. Real thermobaric explosives are not simply a mixture of explosive/metals. These are specially engineered
materials and optimized to yield high impulse blast wave but low detonation performance. because thermobaric compositions are specially engineered
materials, it is not surprising why a great amount of studies dealing with these materials are still classified documents.
Dany.
[Edited on 26-11-2013 by Dany]
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franklyn
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" Berthelot stated that excess of Hydrogen favors the production of ( CH2O )n "
www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/94968?uid=3739832&uid=212...
In practice scant formaldehyde is observed.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01339a003
Formaldehyde decomposes into methanol and carbon monoxide at
temperatures above 150 °C, although uncatalysed decomposition is slow
below 300 °C.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc89.htm
Fischer Tropsch
CO (g) + 2H2 (g) => CH3OH (g) ΔH = −90.5 kJ /mol of methanol.
Page 4149 => www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/5/10/4147/pdf
The production of alchohol would then seem to be the expected reaction product
Ethylenedinitramine + Ethylenediamine
. . . C2H4(NHNO2)2 • C2H4(NH2)2 => 4 CO +
3 N2 + 7 H2 . . 6.67 % H2 by weight
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . => 2 CH3OH + 3 N2 +
C2H4(OH)2
Ethylenedinitramine + Methylamine
. . . C2H4(NHNO2)2 • 2 CH3NH2 . . => 4 CO
+ 3 N2 + 8 H2 . . . 7.5 % H2 by weight
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . => 4 CH3OH + 3 N2
Ethylenediamine + Methylnitramine
. . . C2H4(NH2)2 • CH3NHNO2 . . . .=> 4
CO + 3 N2 + 8 H2 . . . 7.5 % H2 by weight
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . => 4 CH3OH + 3 N2
Methylamine + Methylnitramine
. 2 ( CH3NH2 • CH3NHNO2 ) . . . . . => 4 CO + 3 N2 + 9 H2 . . . 8.4 % H2 by weight & 56 % of total gas volume
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . => 4 CH3OH + 3 N2 +
H2
It must be noted that all the above occur at intervals of time that do not ever exist in an explosion.
The reactants comprise only CO and H2 in some proportion and do not include N2 in the mix.
There is one well known example of PLX
<img src="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=3043&pid=72041" title="- PLX -.jpg - 5kB" width="327px"
height="60px" />
=> 4 CO + 2 N2 + 7 H2. . . 7.7 % H2 by weight
Methylamine + Nitromethane => 2 CO + N2 + 4 H2. . . 8.6 % H2 by weight
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franklyn
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Monomethylhydrazine + Methylnitramine
. . . . . . . . .CH3NHNH2 • CH3NHNO2 . . . .=> 2 CO + 2 N2 + 5 H2 . . . 8.2 % H2 by weight
. . .Trimethylammonium + Nitrate
. . . . . . . . . . . .N(CH3)3 • HNO3 . . . . . . . => 3 CO + N2 + 5 H2
. . . . 8.2 % H2 by weight
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[Edited on 14-1-2014 by franklyn]
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PHILOU Zrealone
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I think that the water-gas (syn-gas) process is more like water vapour passed through red hot charcoal...
H2O + C -heat-> CO + H2
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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