Furboffle
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how safe to consume synthesized product?
I just finished preparing some dopamine sulfate. It crossed my mind say I wanted to take it as a supplement, how safe would it be? now I know dopamine
doesn't cross the blood brain barrier and monoamine oxidase enzymes probably destroy it if taken orally and I have no interest in injecting it. so
theres no chance of ingesting this compound but how many of you make and use things that can be used as flavorings, preservatives, I guess drugs is
always a candidate for ingestion in this type of field, etc..
the dopamine I made by nitro-aldol reaction of 15g 3,4-dihydroxybenzaldehyde with 30mL nitromethane and .750g ammonium acetate as a catalyst. this
yielded 16g of product that after cleanup and recrystallization from denatured alcohol left 11.2g 3,4-dihydroxy-nitrostyrene. 5g of the nitrostyrene
was reduced by adding to 50mL 38% HCl in 75mL denatured alcohol. then 25g zinc powder was added slowly. after 24 hours(probably overkill reaction
seemed to go to completion around 4 hours) the remaining zinc was filtered out and the solution was basified with 50g NaOH in 150mL water.
Zn(OH)2 crashed out and was filtered out and washed with 15mL DCM, this along with another 25mL of DCM was added to the solution to extract
the dopamine. after evaporation was left with a light yellow oil. 2-3mL H2SO4 in 15mL denatured alcohol was poured into
evaporating dish containing oil. the dopamine sulfate immediately crashed out yielding about 4.2g of white fluffy crystals. after evaporating the
alcohol the crystals seemed coated in residual sulfuric acid. this was scraped up and placed on a paper plate. after sitting an hour the plate seemed
to absorb the residue leaving the crystals dry and much cleaner and much fluffier. I plan on getting some IPA on monday and I can further clean the
product and will then take a melting point of the product.
I realize this might not be the most ideal information to comment on quality or purity without doing a test on a sample. some sort of spectrometry
would be a nice tell all, but based on what I did so far would there be the possibility of it being fairly pure/safe enough to consume. is melting
point a good enough indication the product being correct as well as hopefully pure enough to not kill you?
main reason I ask is I like to cook and making some sort of flavorings would be awesome. I like making things that have a use. such as making
beta-carbolines to make invisible black light paints. not just extended chemistry uses or just making things for the sake of making them....
idk is there a rule of thumb for deciding whether or not you should eat what you made?
[Edited on 30-6-2013 by Furboffle]
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sargent1015
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The melting point alone will not be the best indication of purity. I would recommend, at minimum, TLCing your product to make sure it is the only
compound present. With that many steps, something definitely got dragged along the way and even a miniscule impurity can do bodily harm.
Were your reagents all OTC or sigma aldrich >99% chemicals? There will always be impurities, unless the reactants are meant to be eaten/consumed
(USP grade).
There is just something about eating chemicals I make at home that I don't really like... I wouldn't even eat the products we produce in my lab with
much better analytics and purer starting materials.
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testimento
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The amount of collateral chemicals being ingested when experimenting with such a small amounts are insignificant unless a chemical having high
toxicity is being used or a reagents used for the synthesis are known to be able to form toxic compounds in the reaction conditions processed. In this
case, you could see what are the LD50 values of used chemicals and see if they could form potentially toxic compounds and see for it. Ethanol is
classified NFPA level 2 for toxicity and still people consume gallons of it all the time.
If I was making lets say ammonium chloride from gas phase hydrogen chloride and ammonia solution made in pure water in properly cleaned glassware, I
would not question it of being edible.
In modern times, the health of the general population has arised quite a bit in a 100 years, and I dont say it is not good to take carcinogenic and
toxic compounds seriously, but the acute risks associated with several common chemicals, for ex. elemental mercury and lead in probable conditions
like milligram-scale spillage on floor, is something out of means of common sense. I mean, just breaking a thermometer will cause evacuation of the
whole department of school building and utilizing an hazmat unit costing several thousands for cleaning it up, instead of just collecting it with
moist towels and discarding properly with no harm to anyone.
What im trying to say, there are no safe and non-safe chemicals, there are only LD50 values and chronic exposure. You could handle minuscale amounts
of most toxic nerve agents or toxins without having any risk for your health, where as table salt will kill you in sufficient amounts.
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Chemstudent
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Why ingest it if in you know that in fact there will be no neurological effect? There is in fact a large presence of DA already in the gut. Ingesting
large enough DA may just give you a powerful bowel movement or just upset your stomach overall.
"DOPAMINE (DA) in the gastrointestinal tract stimulates exocrine secretions, inhibits gut motility, modulates sodium absorption and mucosal blood
flow, and is protective against gastroduodenal ulcer disease (1, 2, 3, 4, 5). Thus, DA is more than a metabolic intermediate in the formation of
norepinephrine (NE) and epinephrine and has distinct biological actions of its own. This concept is supported by the presence of DA receptors
throughout the gastrointestinal tract" - http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/82/11/3864.full
If you want to try something interesting why don't you prepare it into a trans-dermal and apply some to your temples! Heh heh, that just might do
something.
[Edited on 1-7-2013 by Chemstudent]
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Organikum
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Quote: Originally posted by sargent1015  | ....
There is just something about eating chemicals I make at home that I don't really like... I wouldn't even eat the products we produce in my lab with
much better analytics and purer starting materials. |
You will find that in the REALLY old literature from the beginning of the art, the description of newly discovered/sythesized compounds always names
"taste" besides other properties....
The question is though: Whats it good for? Even pure it will not have any positive effects. Well not orally. Trepanation would be an option  Dont forget to hardwire the orgasmic center when you go so far already!
/ORG
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sargent1015
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| Quote: Originally posted by Organikum |
You will find that in the REALLY old literature from the beginning of the art, the description of newly discovered/sythesized compounds always names
"taste" besides other properties.... |
Heh, my boss had mentioned that as an undergraduate, his organic lab made fruit esters, which they proceeded to dump on icecream and enjoy after class
 Could never get away with that in schools these days with all the liability.
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