ElizabethGreene
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Storage Questions
This is a multi-prong chemical storage question.
First question, "What do you think of these bottles?"
Second question, "Generally, is this an acceptable storage strategy?"
Currently I'm storing the chemicals I synthesize in whatever I can find, including a glass jar originally for strawberry jelly (charcoal powder), a
small glass vial from Dr. Bob (sulfur), these plastic containers from wal-mart (KNO3, Crude MnO2, Carbon Rods)
 and a few zip-loc bags. Some things (NaOH, H2SO4, HCl, Xylene) are still in the original packaging because I can't store them
safely.
This is unprofessional and will become progressively less safe as I acquire and synthesize additional materials.
Question 1: I like these flint glass square bottles. Would they be okay for general use excluding acids, bases, and organic solvents?
http://www.specialtybottle.com/clearfrenchsquaresmi.aspx
1a.) Is the clear colorless glass a concern? Some of the compounds I want to make are quite lovely and I'd like to be able to see them. (Copper
Sulfate, Copper Acetate, Iron Chloride)
1b.) What should I use for the storage of Acids, Bases, and Organic solvents?
Question 2:
Regarding general storage, are there any rules of thumb in laying out the lab? I have a (broken) upright freezer and was considering using it for
chemical storage since it locks. Is this okay? How would you lay it out?
For Halogens: Are sealed Ampoules and only in tiny quantities ok?
Alkali metals: I'd like to make K and/or Na eventually. How should these be stored?
Organics: Ideally these would be under a fume hood. I don't have one, so how should they be stored? Currently they are in the metal cans they were
sold in. I'm not actively pursuing O-chem at this time.
Thanks!
ellie
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Variscite
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Ive been researching storage too, I need small bottles or vials and wanted to get some reviews on different products. Hopefully this thread can help
me decide what to choose.
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Magpie
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I have some of those 4oz clear French square bottles. I like them for solids and liquids that are not light sensitive.
Generally I store the liquids that I make in Qorpak 4oz amber bottles with ptfe liners. For solids I make I use the Qorpak 4oz wide-mouth amber
bottles with ptfe liners.
You can request a Qorpak catalog. It seems to be much more complete than their website.
I have a lot of chemicals stored in original containers or whatever empty food jar that I happen to have on hand. It all depends on what the chemical
is, ie, how volatile, how agressive, etc. For the most demanding I almost always choose one of the Qorpak bottles indicated above. If I'm really
worried I will double contain by placing the bottle in a Rubbermaid plastic tub. If truly agressive and/or worrisome like oleum, HCl, chlorosulfonic
acid, and bromine - those bad boys are double contained and placed in my outside shed.
You really have to look at every chemical on an individual basis to know what is an appropriate storage container and storage location. You have to
get to know your chemicals. Some chemicals are basically inert, while others are screaming monsters ready to tear you a new one. 
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Finnnicus
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Woelen has this great jars (approaching vials) 15ml IIRC and I would love to find a source. Any other good display vials/jars ideas would be good.
ATM, I store things in jars with PE lids and PTFE tape wrapped around the threads, this works a charm and I reccommend it.
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adamsium
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Quote: Originally posted by Finnnicus  | Woelen has this great jars (approaching vials) 15ml IIRC and I would love to find a source. Any other good display vials/jars ideas would be good.
ATM, I store things in jars with PE lids and PTFE tape wrapped around the threads, this works a charm and I reccommend it. |
I've actually been looking for some vials, too. I've found many different suppliers on aliexpress, such as: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/900141 (among many others). I will probably contact some of these suppliers to find out if the vials are made of
borosilicate glass or soda glass, since all of the ones I looked at simply said 'glass'. They'd be useful for both storage and as reaction vessels.
There seem to be many cheap sources for these in the US, but the shipping to Australia is expensive. Shipping from China is very cheap, so a fair
number can be had for a reasonable price. I'm sure they would also have the 'bottle' style; I did see quite a few, but most came with a dropper type
fitting for essential oils. I'm sure they could supply them with standard caps.
As for other reagents that I will actually use, I'm about to buy some Schott bottles (25 mL and 100 mL sizes). I'll get a PBT cap for nitric acid
(most of it will stay in the stock bottle).
Elizabeth: There is some good information at Flinn Scientific (intended for schools) regarding appropriate layout and separation of chemicals. A PDF
summarising this can be found at http://www.flinnsci.com/media/755241/storage.pdf and some of the information at http://www.flinnsci.com/teacher-resources/safety/laboratory-... is also relevant and useful. Of course, a lot of this is 'ideal' and not practical
for a home chemist due to space restrictions, but it's helpful to get some idea of general incompatibilities.
Reactive metals such as sodium and potassium are generally stored under an inert (to sodium and potassium), anhydrous liquid such as mineral /
paraffin oil. This prevents both aerial oxidation and reaction with water.
As for halogens, iodine can just be stored in a well-sealed container, preferably a double container. Something like bromine is a different beast
entirely and I'll leave that to others with first-hand experience there (as I know some here have).
PS - I love your experiment write-ups! They make a nice change from some of the "I have never done any chemistry and have no equipment. How do I make
fluorine?" posts. Keep them coming 
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woelen
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There is no silver bullet, which fits all situations.
Many chemicals can be stored in any container with a tightly sealing cap. Salts, which are not hygroscopic, and not easily oxidized by air can be
stored in simple jars. I use glass jars from mayonaise, marmelade, peanut butter, etc. Preferrably with plastic caps, because these cannot rust and do
not contaminate the chemicals. Price of the chemicals does not matter, only their chemical properties. E.g. I have 160 grams of RuO2, and I simply
store that in some empty, thoroughly cleaned, mustard jar. I label my jars with stickers, with the name and/or the formula of the chemical compound
and I put a sticker with appropriate warning symbols (e.g. cross, flame, oxidizer) on the jar.
Liquids I store in glass bottles, except ammonia and HF, which I store in HDPE bottles. Ammonia can become contaminated when stored in glass (leaching
of metal ions into the liquid). HF of course cannot be stored in glass at all, it eats glass.
Many plastics do not go together well with organics. As an example, I have some cyclohexene, and I used to store that in a bottle with a sturdy PP
cap. But after a few weeks of storage I noticed slight swelling of the cap. The PP absorbs cyclohexene vapor and is weakened somewhat. Now I store it
in a bottle with a PP cap, which has a thick grey teflon liner inside and since then I have no issues anymore. So, some research is needed for
individual organic solvents.
I store my H2SO4 in glass bottles with a plastic cap. The plastic withstands H2SO4 well. HNO3 is stored in similar bottles, and HCl as well. I also
have some fuming (90+ %) HNO3 and that is stored in a special bottle with GL45 cap, having a teflon liner inside.
Very hygroscopic or otherwise air sensitive materials I keep in a tightly sealed container and this container in turn is wrapped in a thick plastic
bag, which is tightly sealed. Thermal cycling of air into and out of the container with changing ambient temperature is reduced a lot with these bags,
because the bag expands or shrinks with the air inside. Hardly any fresh air makes it into the container this way.
Another thing is that I have small bottles for work and larger bottles for long term storage. E.g. I have 500 ml of 1-propanol. I have put 80 ml or so
in a 100 ml bottle and the rest I kept in the 500 ml bottle. The 500 ml bottle is put aside in long-term storage and if I want to do experiments with
the 1-propanol, I take alcohol from the 100 ml bottle. If that bottle is empty, then I'll fill it again from my 500 ml bottle. In this way I achieve
three things:
- On my work bench I only have easy to handle, light and small bottles. Handling the heavy large bottles only is needed infrequently.
- In case of accidental contamination, I only contaminate a small part of my precious chemical and not the whole lot.
- The main lot of chemicals is not opened and closed many times for each experiment. Each time of opening leading to some deterioration (which is
especially true for air-sensitive chemicals).
A similar thing I also do for my solid chemicals.
Long-term storage with the larger bottles is away from my workbench. The workbench has a few small cupboards in which I store my small bottles.
I have a special class of chemicals, which I call "NASTY BEYOND IMAGINATION". These require special storage bottles. Some examples:
- PCl5
- NbCl5
- PCl3
- Br2
- SOCl2
- (Cl-CN)3
- COCl-COCl
These chemicals are extremely corrosive and some of them also are very toxic. No normal cap withstands them for more than a few months. For this kind
of chemicals I have special storage bottles with GL45 screw cap, the red ones or with red rim. These caps are quite expensive (nearly EUR 10 per cap),
but I have not found anything else which withstands these caps. Some of the most nasty ones I have put in totally sealed glass ampoules (e.g. my SOCl2
and part of my Br2 is distributed over several 20 ml glass ampoules, which are kept in a bigger container, each ampoule wrapped in paper to avoid
accidental shattering).
[Edited on 26-6-13 by woelen]
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Dr.Bob
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I do have a few of the clear square bottles in a few sizes. I have not made a detailed list yet, and also am trying to play the dating game of jars
and lids, which is why I have been slow to post them. But I have a box or two of them now, where I have matched them, and would be happy to sell the
simple square bottles which have black phenolic rubber lined caps for $1 and the few green capped Teflon lined ones for $2 each. If you are
interested, just let me know about what size range you are interested in and how many, what state you live in, and I can tell you what I have and what
the postage would be. It might take me a few days to answer, but I will let you know.
I also have found about 10 more 100 ml amber Quarpak narrow mouth bottles with as well with green Teflon lined caps, they are $2 each, and I could
likely fit 10 plus a few others in one medium flat rate box for $12 in postage anywhere in the US. These will handle most aggressive acids and
corrosives. I have seen Bromine, TFA, and nitric acid shipped in them by reputable companies, so I am confident that they will keep those OK.
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ElizabethGreene
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| Quote: Originally posted by Dr.Bob | I do have a few of the clear square bottles in a few sizes. [...]
I also have found about 10 more 100 ml amber Quarpak narrow mouth bottles with as well with green Teflon lined caps, they are $2 each [...]
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A shameless plug for Dr. Bob, I've ordered from him and will do so again in the future.
I have one of these teflon capped Quorpak bottles that I've pre-labeled "Nitric Acid". Now it's just waiting for me to synthesize it.. 
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mud
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What about shipping said containers? What is the tape commonly found around the lids when one buys things that should not leak?
I see it in black, yellow, green on bottles, but never see it in a roll for use. I do see heat shrink plastic bands but I want that tape.
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sargent1015
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| Quote: Originally posted by mud | What about shipping said containers? What is the tape commonly found around the lids when one buys things that should not leak?
I see it in black, yellow, green on bottles, but never see it in a roll for use. I do see heat shrink plastic bands but I want that tape.
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Are you refering to the teflon tape some reagent bottles come shipped in? I would expect that electrical tape would do just fine for this purpose. I
prefer parafilm, since it is much cheaper and gives that nice, tight seal.
Also, Dr. Bob's Quarpak bottles are excellent for all sorts of things you want to store. They are, however, amber so you wouldn't be able to see your
pretty compounds. I use them for acids and organic solvents since the lids give a nice seal.
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Magpie
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After a few years in my storage shed I found that my Br2 had sneaked past the ptfe liner and destroyed the white plastic screwcap. So, I also
recommend a periodic inspection to verify the integrity of your chemical containers.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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mud
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Its seems to be some sort of plastic tape and not teflon or parafin, electrical tape would leave a residue mess.
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sargent1015
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I think you are refering to duct tape, electrical tape (better brands) don't leave gunk behind. It's why drum corps wrap their flags and color guard
equipment in it.
Yeah, I just brought marching band into a chemistry arguement  Nerdy
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mud
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hmm, I found products called Time Tape and ContainerSEAL that sound pretty good.
[Edited on 26-6-2013 by mud]
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Dr.Bob
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| Quote: Originally posted by mud | What about shipping said containers? What is the tape commonly found around the lids when one buys things that should not leak?
I see it in black, yellow, green on bottles, but never see it in a roll for use. I do see heat shrink plastic bands but I want that tape.
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The DOT rules for shipping hazmat chemicals specifically REQUIRE that all lids for liquids (and some solids, I think) have to be secured with tape.
So that is why.
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MrHomeScientist
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I buy most of my storage bottles / vials from Specialty Bottle (the OP's link). They have no minimum order, ship quickly and package securely, and
have good prices (though they do kill you on shipping, so I recommend buying a lot at once rather than several small orders). I use their 2 dram vials
for storing samples for my element collection, as well as for when I synthesize small amounts of chemicals (most recently, lead nitrate). My favorite
type of bottle for storage of solids is the "packer" style, which they also have: http://www.specialtybottle.com/amberglasspackersmi.aspx . They have nice wide mouths for dispensing and are amber for light protection.
As far as special storage concerns, I think the main thing is the cap. Sometimes you need the resistance of teflon, and woelen went over that pretty
well. For acids, I bought safety-coated bottles with teflon caps from an eBay seller. These bottles are coated in plastic to hold them together in
case of accidents, and make me feel much safer when handling them. I keep all my acids inside a big plastic rubbermaid tub, with a couple inches of
baking soda layered on the bottom.
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ElizabethGreene
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I purchased an assortment of the square bottles from Specialty bottle and I'm quite pleased with them.
Irony: this is the first time a lab container has been stolen for use in the kitchen. Usually the flow is in the opposite direction.
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bfesser
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Off topic note:
Citric acid is a poor substitute for lemon juice as you won't be getting your antiscorbutic <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascorbic_acid"
target="_blank">Vitamin C</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" />.
[Edited on 7/9/13 by bfesser]
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testimento
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Glass can hold about everything except fluorine and heavy bases like NaOH.
But the tops aren holding anything, theyre made of tin with rubber, or in few lucky cases, HDPE. With easy chems you can use the jars otc, but for any
corrosive substance, you need to make a little improvement.
But there is easy solution to make any jelly-jar WFNA-proof: cut round piece from PTFE foil (10-20usd/m2, from which you can make at least a hundred
large top seals, net price $0.10 a piece, not bad) and insert it at the sealing end of the tops. When you screw it at its place, it will press firmly
on the lips of the glass can and form a seal that can hold about any chemical you ever come over.
I use plastic containers made from HDPE or PP for every chem that just can sit in one. 10-liter plastic buckets with tops are nice with powders and 5,
10 and 25-liter canisters nice for liquids. I use glass bottles or those tin cans only when the chemical is not suitable with PE plastic, like
solvents. I personally would love having nice collection of classic looking lab-grade glass bottles for holding everything, but they are extremely
costly, bulky and break easily.
[Edited on 6-7-2013 by testimento]
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ElizabethGreene
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| Quote: Originally posted by testimento |
Cut round piece from PTFE foil [...] net price $0.10 [...] and insert it at the sealing end of the tops. When you screw it at its place, it will press
firmly on the lips of the glass can and form a seal that can hold about any chemical you ever come over.
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Fantastic tip, I hadn't even considered it. I'll add PTFE sheet to my next McMaster-Carr order. I have a set of hollow hole punches, if I'm
particularly lucky, perhaps one of them is the correct size.
FWIW, the caps as supplied from the vendor are an unidentified black plastic with no recycling number. They have a glossy paper insert.
Bfesser: Aghast matey, ye have discovered my attempt to be an actual scurvy dawg. XD
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cyanureeves
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i bought two bottles with teflon lining from madlaboratory on ebay and the caps didnt last a week before my nitric dissolved the lining.the cap was
also dissolving and some of the lining is goop in the acid now. i had to wrap teflon tape around a test tube and shove it down the bottle mouth to
stopper it.12 bucks for nothing.
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amazingchemistry
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For storage, a good place to start would be reading the MSDS, it should tell you general incompatibilities and other storage-related stuff. Like other
posters have said soda glass withstands most chemicals (the biggest exceptions being HF and strong bases). If you want to buy in bulk buy
amber-colored glass, that way you don't have to worry about buying clear glass for the non-light-sensitive chems and amber glass for the
light-sensitive ones. the caps have to come with PTFE (teflon) liners, which you can make by cutting a PTFE sheet in little circles. That should serve
you for the majority of chems you come across. HF and strong bases can be stored in HDPE bottles with teflon lined caps, although I have heard HF is
stored industrially by passivating metal containers. When it comes to organics I'm a little overcautious and unless told otherwise assume that the
organic in question attacks plastic. Organics do not necessarily have to be stored under a fume hood. The have to be USED under one but obviously
there's a difference between using and storing. If you have efficient ventilation and have followed the incompatibility rules, I don't see why they
should be stored any differently than your other chems. The exception to this is flammables, which ideally should be in a metal cabinet. I myself plan
to store them in a modified fireproof safe (you can get those rather cheaply), because dedicated flammable cabinets are expensive as hell. I have also
seen chemicals that decompose (most notably H2O2) and nasty volatile chems (like Br) being stored under low temperature. You'd have to check each of
your chems for storage temp ranges. Alkali metals should be stored under mineral oil. Baby oil is generally useful for this purpose, but as always,
check the label to see that mineral oil is the only ingredient. Finally I'd say label each chemical you store with a name, a formula, a concentration
(if applicable) and the date of storage/synthesis. Also, personally, I'd put NFPA diamond stickers on the bottles (those little diamonds divided into
4 areas of different colors) with the appropriate codes.
[Edited on 7-7-2013 by amazingchemistry]
[Edited on 7-7-2013 by amazingchemistry]
Always remember to check your pride at the door and ask that "stupid" question. Learning comes from having your "stupid" questions answered.
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cyanureeves
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| Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves | | i bought two bottles with teflon lining from madlaboratory on ebay and the caps didnt last a week before my nitric dissolved the lining.the cap was
also dissolving and some of the lining is goop in the acid now. i had to wrap teflon tape around a test tube and shove it down the bottle mouth to
stopper it.12 bucks for nothing. |
madlaboratory has given me a full refund without me asking for one just to
set the record straight.it was funny though that the reply stated that it looked like teflon and were sorry. i did tell them that it did not withstand my nitric and that i still had one bottle not being used,maybe i can store
some jalapenos in it.maybe they read sciencemadness????
[Edited on 7-8-2013 by cyanureeves]
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