chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
diborane aquiring help
muy typical chemical companys dont seem to carry diborane seemed like a really useful alternative to Lah any suggestions as an individual where i
might aquire most preferably in a solvent?
|
|
|
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
thermite magnesium reduction of boric acid
reacting resulting magnesium boride with dilute hydrochloric acid
diborane tends to spontaneously ignite on contact with air
Diborane B2H6, mixed with hydrogen, burning rapidly with a pop, when a heated steel wire (not shown in picture), but below red heat, was inserted
into the tube. Diborane is very toxic, but makes a pretty green flame.
Diborane can also be more conveniently prepared in the laboratory by warming sodium borohydride with concentrated sulfuric acid (the drain cleaner
variety).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37388341@N00/3999335806/in/pool...
[Edited on 3-11-2012 by AndersHoveland]
I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
|
|
|
Nicodem
|
Thread Moved
3-11-2012 at 08:43 |
bfesser
Resident Wikipedian
Posts: 2114
Registered: 29-1-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
chemisch, what is "Lah"? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_aluminum_hydride" target="_blank">Lithium aluminum hydride</a>
<img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> is abbreviated LAH—ideally LiAlH<sub>4</sub>. Please put a little more effort into
your posts!
[Edited on 7/9/13 by bfesser]
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3247
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Magnesium boride and hydrochloric acid can react to form diborane but this is not something I would consider a preparative method. Stock, the pioneer
of borane chemistry used said reaction as his main method of preparing boranes but yields were abysmal and the reaction yields a number of higher
boranes which have to be condensed and fractioned tediously. I would wager (even without searching) that most companies do not carry neat diborane,
usually it is sold as a complex in THF or dimethylsulfide, search for those.
|
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
bfesser i was on my phone excuse my not wanting to tediously capitalize letters. and BromicAcid i was looking for diborane in THF just was hoping
someone knew of a supplier saving me the endless google search
|
|
|
Mailinmypocket
International Hazard
Posts: 1351
Registered: 12-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Tediously capitalizing letters can make a lot of difference, when it comes to chemistry anyways. Naoh (looks like the name Noah misspelled) Whereas
NaOH is easier to understand and is the correct way to write it.
Is pressing "shift" while pressing your letter selection that difficult anyways? In their defense, bfesser was not trying to be rude...
|
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
no no, i realize the importance. Capitalizing on a cell phone is just a task which isn't exactly fun. Thats why it would be tedious.
|
|
|
Hexavalent
International Hazard
Posts: 1564
Registered: 29-12-2011
Location: Wales, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pericyclic
|
|
Jesus, it takes absolutely minimal effort to hold down the shift/alt button when typing.
Also, pardon my inquisitivity but what do you actually want diborane for?
"Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." Winston Churchill
|
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
i'm trying not to be rude but like i stated i was on my phone... shifting on a phone is a tedious process. why i was on my phone and not my computer i
have no idea. Did not know i was going to get flamed 
Well Diborane would be quite useful for reducing carboxylic acids into alcohols where i could use LAH and do a work around but bleh
|
|
|
kristofvagyok
National Hazard
Posts: 659
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by chemisch  | | Well Diborane would be quite useful for reducing carboxylic acids into alcohols where i could use LAH and do a work around but bleh
|
If you've got LAH, then I would suggest the standard method for generating diborane: in a gas generator place some LAH under ether and add
drop-by-drop some BF3-ether complex. The LAH will react with it to form diborane.
If want to store diborane, then just bubble it in some pyridine, it could be stored this way safely and could be used easily.
P.S.: Working under argon is recommended to avoid explosions 
I have a blog where I post my pictures from my work: http://labphoto.tumblr.com/
-Pictures from chemistry, check it out(:
"You can’t become a chemist and expect to live forever." |
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
well that was my main issue that LAH i can acquire easily but i don't have the funds currently to work under argon makes sense your method but
impractical just wanted to buy it lol
|
|
|
Nicodem
Super Moderator
Posts: 4230
Registered: 28-12-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by chemisch | | Well Diborane would be quite useful for reducing carboxylic acids into alcohols where i could use LAH and do a work around but bleh
|
Why would you want to use something as exotic and hazardous like diborane for reducing carboxylic acids, when you can use standard reagents like
BH3×THF or BH3×Me2S solutions which are much more manageable and less hazardous, and most importantly, easy to
acquire from any major chemical supplier?
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
|
|
|
stoichiometric_steve
National Hazard
Posts: 827
Registered: 14-12-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: satyric
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by chemisch | | well that was my main issue that LAH i can acquire easily but i don't have the funds currently to work under argon |
sounds a bit like bullshit, but it could just be me.
|
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
see i'm still just trying to learn my classes arent moving as fast as i would like how would i be able to tell if Diborane would be able to reduce
something that borane couldnt?
and stoichiometric_steve i'm a student and i just looked into using argon its not as expensive as i thought but still
|
|
|
kristofvagyok
National Hazard
Posts: 659
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Best way of learning chemistry is to get good books and not blowing up yourself. Trust me.
I have a blog where I post my pictures from my work: http://labphoto.tumblr.com/
-Pictures from chemistry, check it out(:
"You can’t become a chemist and expect to live forever." |
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
just to note my attempts to aquire diboarne were not in the relative future more like 6months to a year so by all means i wasnt trying to blow myself
up 
|
|
|
stoichiometric_steve
National Hazard
Posts: 827
Registered: 14-12-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: satyric
|
|
so basically you don't know shit about the stuff you're trying to attempt, eh? you're a waste of time.
|
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
no. that's incredibly rude. i was simply trying to figure out the practicality of acquiring diborane most of the feedback was quite helpful and i
appreciate it alot. Steve, for your information the whole idea behind forums/Threads is to waste time... if you don't want to contribute by asking or
attempting to answer questions don't post simply to bash me that's not fun
|
|
|
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
In some situations, the reactivity of diborane is significantly different from that of borane in the form of an adduct with ether.
I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2734
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I will agree that diborane may react differently than BH3-THF, but most acids reduce fine to alcohols with BH3 in THF or DMS, usually works at RT but
can be heated gently if needed. If that does not work, due to sterics, then LAH at reflux is the next best way (always best to add the substrate to
the LAH slurry in THF for best results, in my experience). Very few practicing chemists I have met would use diborane for that, just too hazardous
and hard to work with, compared with just squirting in a soln. of BH3 in THF. Similar to using triphosgene rather than phosgene or dipinacol
borane rather than pinacol borane, since they are less hazardous and cheaper/easier to ship.
|
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
How would I find out if DMS or borane would reduce indoor-3-acetic acid for example?
|
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
Wait I was getting DMS confused are you referring to DMS as a solvent?
|
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
OK I got this I got confused for some reason I thought you were talking about DMSO which was really confusing me
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2734
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Not sure how to reduce indoor-3-acetic acid, but if you are looking to reduce indole-3-acetic acid to indole-3-CH2CH2OH, that might be doable. A
simple search showed over 10 literature refs, most of which used LAH or DIBAL for the reduction. There are none for borane or diborane listed for the
unprotected NH on the indole, so it may be that borane reagents complex with it. Many more use the methyl ester, which is much more easily reduced.
Do a literature search. If you have access to Scifinder, Reaxys, or a library with some chemistry database, try it. But even Google and wikipedia
can produce some papers on nearly any chemistry subject now.
[Edited on 6-11-2012 by Dr.Bob]
|
|
|
chemisch
Harmless
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-3-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing of mind expansion
|
|
Yeah that's what I was looking to reduce the carboxylic group to ethanol I found literature stating that diborane would do it at room temp but like
previously stated its quite exotic not sure if I have access to those databases but I'll ask around
Hopefully my local university has those resources
[Edited on 6-11-2012 by chemisch]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
