plante1999
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Magnesium stannide
I read something about the possibility of tin magnesium compound of formula Mg2Sn. I have bean interessed in stannanes ( SnH4) (SnH2)n+2. Do SM think
that melting tin and magnesium together will make this compound? Secondly does adding HCl on it will form Stannanes fallowing a similar reaction to
silicides?
Thanks!!!
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plante1999
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OK I weigh out magnesium piece and tin metal with magnesium in excess since magnesium oxide will be also formed. I melted the mix together and I was
surprised to see that the magnesium did not burn and make only a small amount of black crust. The melt was really brittle and crystalline, it smelled
quite like typical ''iron'' odor (iron does not have an odor, actually its organic compound which are made when iron touch the skin). Tomorrow I will
test the product in dilute HCl.
I never asked for this.
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plante1999
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Sorry for the triple post.
I did the process outside since I read that stannane was somewhat toxic.
I take 2 similar pieces of the mix of magnesium/tin and dropped them in 10% HCl and consented NaHSO4. HCl did make small amount of black particle in
solution and the most metaly smell I have ever smell. The NaHSO4 dissolved very cleanly the piece leaving no residue and making an even stronger
metaly smell.... I'm smelling metal quite very strongly now... (take note metal does not have an odor, actually its organic compound which are made
when metals touch the skin. This was quite impressing, I think I made stannane, more investigation is needed.
I never asked for this.
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AndersHoveland
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You seem to have an interest in several of the non-metal/metalloid hydrides (germanes, stannanes)
But a word of caution- most of the non-metal hydrides are very poisonous. I have a theory for why this is. This family of compounds does not
immediately react with the high proportion of water in the body, and can survive long enough to act as a powerful reducing agent, that could
irreversibly alter certain important (yet unknown)enzymes. Of course SH2 is poisonous for a different reason- it is a natural chemical messenger in
the body that affects blood vessel constriction.
I had a small interest in trifluorosilane, SiHF3, which is a gas. It is made by reacting trichlorosilane with titanium tetrafluoride.
(trichlorosilane, SiHCl3 is made by reacting silicon powder with HCl at 400degC using an AlCl3 catalyst)
It would be interesting to know whether or how SiHF3 reacts with water.
More common SiF4 partially hydrolyses with water according to the equation:
3 SiF4 + 4 H2O --> 2 H2SiF6(aq) + Si(OH)4
[Edited on 7-6-2012 by AndersHoveland]
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woelen
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@Plante1999: I doubt you made any stannane in this way. If you made some, then you only made trace amounts. Stannane in decent quantities would
self-ignite in contact with air and as you make no mention of that, I assume it did not occur in your experiment. A mix of H2 and more than trace
amounts of SnH4 certainly would ignite in contact with air.
The strong smell is interesting. It _might_ be the smell of stannane, but it could also simply be the smell of tin(II) compounds, which escape from
the bubbling liquid. Small droplets of liquid almost certainly escape into the air when vigorous bubbling occurs from the magnesium in the
hydrochloric acid.
If you have any tin salts, then you could try dissolving some of that in dilute hydrochloric acid and add some NaHCO3 and carefully smell the liquid
and see if there is a peculiar smell. The smell also can be due to impurities in your tin, magnesium or both. I once dissolved chromium in dilute HCl
and I had a very strong smell, but this was due to impurities (a brown/grey spongy and soft piece was left behind after all the metal had dissolved).
Later, I dissolved 99.99% chromium in dilute HCl and that time there was no odour at all, so impurities also can give very strong smell.
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plante1999
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Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  | You seem to have an interest in several of the non-metal/metalloid hydrides (germanes, stannanes)
But a word of caution- most of the non-metal hydrides are very poisonous. I have a theory for why this is. This family of compounds does not
immediately react with the high proportion of water in the body, and can survive long enough to act as a powerful reducing agent, that could
irreversibly alter certain important (yet unknown)enzymes. Of course SH2 is poisonous for a different reason- it is a natural chemical messenger in
the body that affects blood vessel constriction.
I had a small interest in trifluorosilane, SiHF3, which is a gas. It is made by reacting trichlorosilane with titanium tetrafluoride.
(trichlorosilane, SiHCl3 is made by reacting silicon powder with HCl at 400degC using an AlCl3 catalyst)
It would be interesting to know whether or how SiHF3 reacts with water.
More common SiF4 partially hydrolyses with water according to the equation:
3 SiF4 + 4 H2O --> 2 H2SiF6(aq) + Si(OH)4
[Edited on 7-6-2012 by AndersHoveland] |
Indead I like metal/metaloid hydride chemistry! This is why I acually make alls these titanium compound, when I started to learn titanium chemistry I
found that wath I liked most was is ''similarity'' with carbon (I already made a titanium based polymer, more info on U2U ask). Then I figured out
that germanium was exacly the chemistry I wanted but I did not found germanium... This is why i'm doing tin chemistry at this time.
Woelen: I will test Tin II + sodium hydrogen carbonate soon. I actually knew that SnH4 ignite in air (I was actually looking to see small flames) but
no flame was made, only odor, so I reported this. I have an hypothese why if SnH4 was made it did not burn. Maybe the hydrogen ''protected the trace
amount stannane from being oxidized in air and the hydrogen slowly dissipate in air making small tin dioxide dust and water in the air.
[Edited on 7-6-2012 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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AndersHoveland
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Stannane can reduce acetone or benzaldehyde to form isopropanol or benzyl alcohol, respectively.
(US patent 3867463)
Stannane can reduce nitroalkanes to amines, and chloroalkanes to plain alkanes.
(US Patent 3654367)
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plante1999
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woelen: I tested Tin II sulphate and NaHCO3, I did not smell any odor.
By the way I made tiny amount of TiCl4 in a steel pipe with a ''homemade'' apparatus, Chlorine was feed in and the tube heated to redness with tin in
it. A lot of Iron III chloride condensed as well but The tin tetrachloride does not seam to mix with it, The liquid was highly fuming (less than
TiCl4) and when the 1ml was poured in a slightly wet vial a very tick SnO2 coating was made. about 1 drop of liquid was made. I will make a better
process in the future.
I never asked for this.
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AndersHoveland
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It is a little off-topic, but I just read about another useful reaction which makes use of a chloro-silane as a reducing agent (catalyzed by indium
hydroxide) It can pull off the oxygen from a ketone and simultaneously replace it with a chlorine and hydrogen.
Y. Onishi, D. Ogawa, M. Yasuda, A. Baba, J. Am. Chem. Soc., 2002, 124, 13690-13691.
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AJKOER
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Here ia a reference from Atomistry.com on Tetramethyl Stannane, Sn(CH3)4, that may generate ideas. To quote:
"Tin Tetramethyl or Tetramethyl Stannane, Sn(CH3)4, prepared by the interaction of tin-sodium alloy and methyl iodide, is an ethereal liquid of
density 1.314 at 0° C., insoluble in water and boiling at 78° C. Some tin trimethyl iodide, Sn(CH3)3I, boiling at 170° C. and having a density of
2.143 at 0° C., is formed at the same time. Tin dimethyl di-iodide, Sn(CH3)2I2, formed by heating sheet-tin with methyl iodide at 150° C., forms
yellow monoclinic crystals which melt at 30° C., forming a liquid which boils at 228° C. (Cahours). To this compound there correspond the oxide
Sn(CH3)2O, dimethyl stannone, the chloride Sn(CH3)2Cl2, melting at 90° C. and boiling at 188°-190° C., and the sulphate Sn(CH3)2SO4."
Link: http://tin.atomistry.com/tetramethyl_stannane.html
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