FrankMartin
Hazard to Self
Posts: 50
Registered: 30-5-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
How do I make permanent glassware markings?
I mean on glass apparatus not normally calibrated. Do I rub the glass with fine emery paper and then write on the roughened surface with a graphite
pencil? Would this weaken the glass? Is there some sort of etching fluid available?
Also I want to make marks on a distilling flask to tell how much liquid has boiled away. And I want a permanent tare weight marked on all glassware.
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
A glass etching product (contains ammonium hydrogen fluoride IIRC) is available at craft stores. I don't see where a superficial etching would
significantly weaken the glass - that's likely the way the pro's do it.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
bahamuth
Hazard to Others
Posts: 384
Registered: 3-11-2009
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
Mood: Under stimulated
|
|
A very neat rick on ground glassware is to write with a pencil on the ground part of the glassware, on inside joints if possible, sticks forever
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  | | A glass etching product (contains ammonium hydrogen fluoride IIRC) is available at craft stores. I don't see where a superficial etching would
significantly weaken the glass - that's likely the way the pro's do it. |
He asked about the emery board scratching. That would weaken the glass. Etching fluids are fine, of course.
|
|
|
DJF90
International Hazard
Posts: 2266
Registered: 15-12-2007
Location: At the bench
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I can attest graphite use on glass joints lasts forever, as some fool did that in the lab I'm working in and I find it incredibly annoying. I havent
however tried very hard to remove it, but I suspect treatment with chromic acid or piranha solution would be effective. It is possible to purchase a
glass writing diamond /diamond pen which details to be scratched into the glass - older pieces of quickfit have their model number marked in this way.
Just a note to consider: permanent marking of a tare weight is pointless, as it will never be the same. You should tare glassware as you use it,
because you can only tell its exact mass as and when you use it. Variations in mass are observed typically due to moisture residues or silylation of
glassware, or loss of material due to treatment with a base bath.
|
|
|
watson.fawkes
International Hazard
Posts: 2793
Registered: 16-8-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you have access to a kiln with a good temperature
controller, you can use ceramic decals and fire them on to your ware. Bonus annealing cycle!
|
|
|
fledarmus
Hazard to Others
Posts: 187
Registered: 23-6-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Just use a sharpie. Writes just fine on smooth glass, wipes off with acetone or alcohol.
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by DJF90 | | I can attest graphite use on glass joints lasts forever, as some fool did that in the lab I'm working in and I find it incredibly annoying.
|
Ditto. 
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
"How do I make permanentglassware markings?"
"Just use a sharpie. Writes just fine on smooth glass, wipes off with acetone or alcohol."
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2736
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you buy the Sharpie industrial markers that say "Super Permanent Ink" in red and black text, they will resist nearly every solvent except DCM. We
use them all of the time in the lab and they will last for a long time, unless you wipe them with DCM and scrub them. There are also silver and
white markers that leave an almost enamel like writing which work well.
If the glass has a white patch, then pencil will last a long time as well. If there is no patch, Sharpie is best. Scratching with a diamond or
etching the glass will cause some weakening, plus it is silly to "permenently" mark a tare weight, as DFJ90 said, the tare weight will change as you
chip a joint, clean in a base bath or get some residue on the flask. Plus some balances drift, so taring the flask immediately before use is best.
That is why we use the industrial sharpies, they last a few uses and then you can wipe it off with DCM if you want to retare it. I have vials that
are over 10 years old marked with a Sharpie and they are still legible. Many paper/plastic labels fall of far before then.
The best solution I have seen is to laser etch on the white spot on glass. We got vials and tubes with white patches and had a company use a small
laser cutting device set properly and they could barcode the vials with an etched black on white which read perfectly forever, did not wash off under
any conditions, and did not change the weight of the vial like a paper label does. (not only when you put it on, but the paper label absorbs enough
humidity to change the weight by +- 0.5 mg depending on the weather.)
That was the best label system I have ever seen. For info, see http://www.twdtradewinds.com, they are a great company to work with.
Bob
[Edited on 3-11-2011 by Dr.Bob]
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3247
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
In our lab we routinely use a paint pen which cleans off easily with acetone. IF however we use that paint pen on a flask and heat that flask to,
oh... 300°C or so, it no longer comes off the glassware Never did this
intentionally however.
|
|
|
Endimion17
International Hazard
Posts: 1468
Registered: 17-7-2011
Location: shores of a solar sea
Member Is Offline
Mood: speeding through time at the rate of 1 second per second
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid | | In our lab we routinely use a paint pen which cleans off easily with acetone. IF however we use that paint pen on a flask and heat that flask to,
oh... 300°C or so, it no longer comes off the glassware Never did this
intentionally however. |
... unless you use acid piranha. 
|
|
|
semiconductive
Hazard to Others
Posts: 325
Registered: 12-2-2017
Location: Scappoose Oregon, USA.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Explorative
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Dr.Bob | | If you buy the Sharpie industrial markers that say "Super Permanent Ink" in red and black text, they will resist nearly every solvent except DCM. We
use them all of the time in the lab and they will last for a long time, unless you wipe them with DCM and scrub them. There are also silver and
white markers that leave an almost enamel like writing which work well. |
Perhaps times have changed ... this is so frustrating.
I went to the construction supplies store and shopped online, bought every sharpie ... super fine point, super this super that... almost every
stinking pen and re-brand was advertizied with disclaimer they no longer use "xylene"; All markers came off with isopropyl alcohol except the one
called "Sharpie pro industrial super permanent markers"; The label on the side of the pen is in red instead of black, otherwise the pen looks like a
normal sharpie.
That one seemed to work, until I tried an experiment that needed methanol and I used denatured alchohol hot as a substitute ... the tare weight faded
off the glass even when the alcohol was cold. Hot denatured alcohol could take it all the way off... since I'm boiling crystalline solutions and
using alcohol to precipitate, it's inevitable that it would hit the ink.
This is a good marker, resists acetone, etc. But on very smooth glass, hot denatured alcohol appears to make newer (2018) pens come off 
I did a search online, and someone else noted a similar clean wash off problem when marking several materials except metal.
https://artsupplycritic.com/2016/02/22/review-sharpie-indust...
[Edited on 31-1-2018 by semiconductive]
|
|
|
semiconductive
Hazard to Others
Posts: 325
Registered: 12-2-2017
Location: Scappoose Oregon, USA.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Explorative
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid | | In our lab we routinely use a paint pen which cleans off easily with acetone. IF however we use that paint pen on a flask and heat that flask to,
oh... 300°C or so, it no longer comes off the glassware Never did this
intentionally however. |
I bought milwaukee brand inkzall, and paint pens (jobsite markers and paint pens).
The inkzall just washed off with alcohol, and I hit it with a butane torch until glass started showing slight red... but those still washed off.
Then I marked it with the paint pen (white color), and hit it with a torch after waiting ten seconds. All of the white was turned to a bright
yellow, except the last number of the tare which hadn't quite dried before being torched and became brownish. After cooling, the yellow turned back
to white; so the pigment is probably zinc oxide in some kind of hydrocarbon binder that burns and reduces some of the ZnO.
It still ran on the glass when hit with IPA. Some of the residue still stuck to the glass, but it was smeared the point of being unreadable. The only
part which didn't run down the glass was the burnt digit that wasn't dry when torched; That at least took the alcohol without disfiguing; but once
wet with alcohol, touching it caused it to flake and smear immediately.
I'd love to know which brand of pen you originally used to get that permanent result. I'm not sure if there's a way to chemically treat the ZN-O
pigment to make it more permanent....
The vials I am using are mostly disposable at 50cents each, so that if the tare weight is significantly off ... I'll just throw it away. But I've
never seen a tare weight change by even 1 milligram in the experiments I've been doing. Besides which, I've figured out that I can add weight to an
existing glass by putting water-glass and borax on it and hitting it with a torch, followed by sulfuric acid, and a second brief torching. The only
kind of weight change that doesn't require throwing the glass out due to a contaminant, is a weight loss. So, the only compensation that is needed
should be to add extra borosilicate to restore a tare in case of chipping or etching. It's actually pretty easy.
|
|
|
semiconductive
Hazard to Others
Posts: 325
Registered: 12-2-2017
Location: Scappoose Oregon, USA.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Explorative
|
|
As an additional question, on the OP.
Has anyone tried the "Azer-Ink" chemically resistant pens? I'd buy it and try it, but they only sell them by the dozen ... and $53.30 is the
cheapest price I've found. That's a bit steep for a pen that I've no review on it good/bad points.
https://www.thomassci.com/Laboratory-Supplies/Pens-and-Penci...
|
|
|
RogueRose
International Hazard
Posts: 1594
Registered: 16-6-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
marking off with masking tape and then light sand/bead blasting? or maybe there is a caustic or acidic paste that could be spread on to dissolve the
glass but not effect the taped areas.
|
|
|
hyfalcon
International Hazard
Posts: 1003
Registered: 29-3-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose | | marking off with masking tape and then light sand/bead blasting? or maybe there is a caustic or acidic paste that could be spread on to dissolve the
glass but not effect the taped areas. |
Ammonium Fluoride or ammonium bi-fluoride will act as an etch-ant.
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3698
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
I am changing from marking tare weights on vessels to just putting an identification mark and keeping track of tare weights in the back of my lab
notebook, easy.
(my scales resolution is 10mg and accuracy about +/- 20 mg so tare weights do not noticeably change - if clean and dry.)
Due to the varied nature of my glassware collection (different brands and ages) often no marks are required.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
